Horrifying. "Given eternal flesh to feel pain for eternity".

[Free]

Which is? Hellfire, and the FACT that God says He will cast all the wicked there, whose names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life?

God is right.

I have never disputed that. That is not what our discussion was about.

 

[Free]

Wasn't this another thread I started a while back? . . . .Oh, yeah yeah, . . . it was!

It was. I think that people need to be careful in stating that the Holy Spirit has lead them to some truth about a matter and so everyone else is wrong. Theology isn't nearly as easy as many seem to think and personal experiences, biases, preconceived ideas, etc., all play more of a role than they realize. But please note that disagreement on a matter doesn't have anything to do with the truth of that matter (in case that's where you want to take it).

 

[Deavonreye]

It was. I think that people need to be careful in stating that the Holy Spirit has lead them to some truth about a matter and so everyone else is wrong. Theology isn't nearly as easy as many seem to think and personal experiences, biases, preconceived ideas, etc., all play more of a role than they realize. But please note that disagreement on a matter doesn't have anything to do with the truth of that matter (in case that's where you want to take it).

Thank you, Free.

I think it is dangerous when people use "spiritual discernment", . . . "spiritual eyes", or the like . . . when it comes to matters that are often completely unknowable. It is fine to assume, and then live a life accordingly, . . . but no one can know the actual, and to disrespect people by constantly putting them down is so very arrogant.

No one can truly know what their future is. . . . and no one can KNOW that their specific beliefs are "spiritually discnerned".

 

[Deavonreye]

You are wrong, of course, because you have not the spiritual eyes to see.

And to what I said in the above post, . . . I will conclude that the topic of "prophesy" should be ended in this thread and started in a new one. Alabaster, please explain some of these "prophesies" in another thread. Thanks.

 

[Alabaster]

Thank you, Free.

I think it is dangerous when people use "spiritual discernment", . . . "spiritual eyes", or the like . . . when it comes to matters that are often completely unknowable. It is fine to assume, and then live a life accordingly, . . . but no one can know the actual, and to disrespect people by constantly putting them down is so very arrogant.

Maybe you need to start a debate on what is knowable, now.

No one can truly know what their future is. . . . and no one can KNOW that their specific beliefs are "spiritually discnerned".

Yes, we can know what our eternal destiny is---for sure.

 

[Deavonreye]

No, . . you must make a lot of assumptions because of the highly figurative nature of the book you follow.

 

[Alabaster]

No, . . you must make a lot of assumptions because of the highly figurative nature of the book you follow.

Nope. I just believe God and what He says to me.

 

[Deavonreye]

Nope. I just believe God and what He says to me.

And what you believe "god is saying to you" comes from a book of a highly figurative nature, particularly when it comes to "the afterlife". Sorry, but that is just the way it is.

 

[Alabaster]

And what you believe "god is saying to you" comes from a book of a highly figurative nature, particularly when it comes to "the afterlife". Sorry, but that is just the way it is.

What you are believing about that is a lie.

 

[jasoncran]

Nope. I just believe God and what He says to me.

i got called an athiest of thing for what i'm about to say but its the truth.

we operate by faith all of us. None of us "knows" rather we believe.

hebrews 11:1"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen."

hmmm we cant test God by science, cant see him.

if i told you all that i just saw God walking down the street you all would question me on that.
rightly so!

For without "faith"its impossible to please God, for we must believe that he is a rewarder of them that dillegently seek him"

the bible isnt evidence for God. It doesnt even defend God, it proclaims him.

 

[Deavonreye]

jason, . . . that was what I was trying to say. I'm sorry, Alabaster, but you can't know. What I am saying is not a lie, and you should know that. Alabaster, you are calling me a liar with absolutely no means to defend your position with authority! It is probable [percent of probability low] that I could be wrong. But I am no liar!

As jason has stated, I will piggy back upon. Faith is what a person believes when they have no evidence. If you KNEW you were right, . . . . . then you wouldn't need "faith".

 

[Free]

jason, . . . that was what I was trying to say. I'm sorry, Alabaster, but you can't know. What I am saying is not a lie, and you should know that. Alabaster, you are calling me a liar with absolutely no means to defend your position with authority! It is probable [percent of probability low] that I could be wrong. But I am no liar!

As jason has stated, I will piggy back upon. Faith is what a person believes when they have no evidence. If you KNEW you were right, . . . . . then you wouldn't need "faith".

We should be careful in how far we take such an argument. Faith is not "what a person believes when they have no evidence." That seems to be a popular belief, especially in the media, but it is far from accurate. Faith can very much be based on reason and evidence. To use a familiar example, I cannot point out to you the wind and we cannot hold the wind in hands and examine it, but we can point out the effects of the wind--we see leaves blowing, our hair gets messed up, etc. We cannot point God out and look at him but we can look at history and look at our own lives or the lives of those around us and see the effects and workings of God.

The Christian faith is based upon much evidence which provides good reasons to believe. Faith is not devoid of evidence but it can go beyond. Faith and reason are not on opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

[jasoncran]

ah yes, faith must have reason to it. but free one cant see the after affects of God's evidence till one has that divine revalation.

meaning that i can see the world because of the sun, therefore i know the sun exists.

i think God is that way.

 

[Deavonreye]

I'm going to have to disagree with you. I don't have "faith" in the wind. We can test for it. Throw up some fine dust, and you can see its effect. We know WHY there is wind. The same cannot be said about "faith in a religious belief". It all has to do with a person's unsubstantiated beliefs and not that of evidence. Evidence in something means that you no longer "just believe it". You can know. The problem with faith is that a person CANNOT give someone else this "evidence that their faith is truth/real". If it could be done, it would have been long ago.

Happy Holidays to all.

 

[Alabaster]

jason, . . . that was what I was trying to say. I'm sorry, Alabaster, but you can't know. What I am saying is not a lie, and you should know that. Alabaster, you are calling me a liar with absolutely no means to defend your position with authority! It is probable [percent of probability low] that I could be wrong. But I am no liar!

As jason has stated, I will piggy back upon. Faith is what a person believes when they have no evidence. If you KNEW you were right, . . . . . then you wouldn't need "faith".

I never called you a liar. Satan is the liar. You are just believing what he tells you.

Faith is a substance. It is a thing. What we have faith to believe that God gives is a certainty. We can therefore know. Such is the miracle of God's grace on us.

Hebrews 11:1 NKJV
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


Amplified
NOW FAITH is the assurance (the confirmation, the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

 

[Oats]

Hell is separation from God

I once read that those who want to be without God go to hell, where all they have are themselves

[C.S.] Lewis believes that the doors of hell are locked from the inside rather than from the outside. Thus, according to Lewis, if escape from hell never happens, it is not because God is not willing that it should happen. Instead, residence in hell is eternal because that is just what persons in hell have chosen for themselves.

 

[Zakky]

This is a tad bit off topic, but I would just like to add my two cents on the matter as well as the discussion at hand. Alabaster, while I appreciate your comments and thoughts about the issue I do not agree with them. What you have said in your posts is one of the reasons I turned away from Christianity. I left the church because apparently belief and faith in God are more important in Christianity than the actions you make in life. I try to live a good life day to day and treat others like I would want to be treated. If I go to hell for not believing in God/Jesus, then so be it. But I would rather live a good life helping out my fellow members of the human race, and if God sends me to hell simply for not having faith in him, then I want nothing to do him. I hope this didn't come off as an attack on anyone, it is just how I feel about the matter.

PEACE, LOVE, HAPPINESS- the way I live my life

 

[Alabaster]

This is a tad bit off topic, but I would just like to add my two cents on the matter as well as the discussion at hand. Alabaster, while I appreciate your comments and thoughts about the issue I do not agree with them. What you have said in your posts is one of the reasons I turned away from Christianity. I left the church because apparently belief and faith in God are more important in Christianity than the actions you make in life. I try to live a good life day to day and treat others like I would want to be treated. If I go to hell for not believing in God/Jesus, then so be it. But I would rather live a good life helping out my fellow members of the human race, and if God sends me to hell simply for not having faith in him, then I want nothing to do him. I hope this didn't come off as an attack on anyone, it is just how I feel about the matter.

PEACE, LOVE, HAPPINESS- the way I live my life

Living a good life isn't what it's about. No wonder you take issue with what I say.

Anyone can live a decently good life without God, but that is the only reward in life one will receive. When one's life ends, that's all she wrote--then there is judgment.

Those who have a relationship with God through His Son, Jesus, have a fantastic forever life to look forward to, where rewards are abundant and last an eternity...not to mention the depth of satisfaction in a life led according to how God leads.

I'd rather have that AND the Kingdom, thanks.

The only genuine PEACE, LOVE AND HAPPINESS in life comes from a life turned over to God.

 

[Zakky]

I wish I could be certain about this "fantastic forever life" after I die, but I am not therefore I focus on this life. I guess I can never be a Christian and I am doomed to burn in hell for all eternity. If your interpretation of the Bible is correct Alabaster, then I will never ever embrace God, although Jesus seems like a very nice guy. If this is in fact true (that people burn in hell forever regardless of their good deeds if they don't believe) I wish I never existed in the first place...I'd rather have that, life isn't that great anyways

 

[Alabaster]

I wish I could be certain about this "fantastic forever life" after I die, but I am not therefore I focus on this life. I guess I can never be a Christian and I am doomed to burn in hell for all eternity. If your interpretation of the Bible is correct Alabaster, then I will never ever embrace God, although Jesus seems like a very nice guy. If this is in fact true (that people burn in hell forever regardless of their good deeds if they don't believe) I wish I never existed in the first place...I'd rather have that, life isn't that great anyways

Knowing the God of the universe is a great thing. Why focus on condemnation when we can have abundant life?

God loves you more than you can even grasp. He has made a way for you and He to have a relationship that will knock your socks off.

Why say no to that, accepting a not-so-great life in the here and now?