How Can The U.S.A. Reduse Mass Shootings?

[Ph8th]

What is the biblical solution in getting gun control?

Return to your first love the one that loved you first. Where was this country before this became a common thing? People have removed God from schools, work place, market place, their homes, their hearts, He is not spoken of unless to blame Him for the events in their lives. The very lives they removed Him from. He is openly mocked and ridiculed in the media(TV RADIO NEWSPAPER ) the very media supported by most professing Christians.
How can anyone have expectation of God healing them or their country when they disposed of him to start with?

2 Chronicles 7:14 (NASB)

14and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

peter

Take away the chains that bind me
Take away things not of You
Let me live for You only
Let Your will be all I do

In this world I feel so lonely
In this world that is so cruel
I find comfort in You only
I am lost apart from You

Show me the road I am to travel
Light the path that leads to You
Hold me close so I don’t wander
Only You will see me through ​

peter

 

[Milk-Drops]

If we really want to curb mass shootings, we need to take more action in figuring out why these things happen in the first place. Just from my experience people use force when they want things or are afraid.

We as people are easily spooked and convinced of others being our problems. Most of us have the ability to recognize problems in our lives and ways to fix them or get over them. However there are instances where people have a hard time understanding the problems ahead of them and can delude themselves.

Islamic terrorists/ extremists will blame the first world for their problems. Racists blame an entire demographic for the problems, homophobes blame the gays, anti religious blame organized religions, liberals blame conservatives, conservatives blame the liberals, etc etc.

People can easily get deluded into fallacious thinking and act rashly. The best way to combat this is to promote that people think through their actions. This wont stomp out all instances, but at least it will curb it and make us more aware of the risks.

We do need to be aware of our surroundings and real dangers, so that is why I'm not in favor of a gun ban, just like my position on the drug war, banning things doesn't solve the real problem, and making things more available also doesn't solve the problem. If someone really wants to do something, or deluded themselves enough to think that committing a crime is the only way to do it, they are going to do it.

Laws are guidelines, they themselves don't and can't stop anything themselves. That is where incarceration and other penalties come in.

We can't stop mass shootings, we can stop ourselves from committing such atrocities and do our best to influence others.
Thank you for your time.

 

[Jim Parker]

The question we are asking is about context. Jesus never said anything about defending against robbers. What is the context?

The context is; Jesus asked if they lacked anything when he sent them out without a purse, or food, or an extra cloak. They said they did not. Jesus then said that if they had an extra cloak, to sell it and buy a sword. They said they had two swords and Jesus said that was enough.

Jesus did not specifically say why they should buy swords so we have to use our own reasoning to determine what purpose could be met with two swords. The only conclusion I have come to is that two men armed with swords among HIs followers would be sufficient to deter people bent on criminal acts against them.

And that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

iakov the fool

 

[Free]

The context is; Jesus asked if they lacked anything when he sent them out without a purse, or food, or an extra cloak. They said they did not. Jesus then said that if they had an extra cloak, to sell it and buy a sword. They said they had two swords and Jesus said that was enough.

Jesus did not specifically say why they should buy swords so we have to use our own reasoning to determine what purpose could be met with two swords. The only conclusion I have come to is that two men armed with swords among HIs followers would be sufficient to deter people bent on criminal acts against them.

And that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

But I suggest that Jesus did say why to buy the swords and it's found in the verse you're skipping over in Luke 22:

36 He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors.' For what is written about me has its fulfillment."
38 And they said, "Look, Lord, here are two swords." And he said to them, "It is enough." (ESV)

Having the swords made them look like insurrectionists, which is precisely what the Jews believed the Messiah was--someone who would deliver them from their oppressors through military means.

If you want to use reasoning, I suggest realizing that Jesus knew what was going to happen--what his whole purpose for going out was--and that he knew they wouldn't need them for defending against anyone. Also notice that there were only two swords for the thirteen of them, so it cannot be taken as a blanket statement to arm oneself, even for self-defense.

 

[Jim Parker]

Having the swords made them look like insurrectionists

Nonsense. If they were insurrectionists then every man would have had a sword, but certainly not just two men out of all his followers.

And consider His question to the soldiers who came to arrest Him: “Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs to take Me? I sat daily with you, teaching in the temple, and you did not seize Me." (Mat 26:55) And note that "robber" is singular. He didn't say "...as against a band of robbers." Apparently it was NOT Jesus' intention that His band of men look like insurrectionists.

he knew they wouldn't need them for defending against anyone.

Really?? Christians have never had a need to defend themselves against anyone?

I suggest realizing that Jesus knew what was going to happen

Of course He knew what was going to happen. He told Judas to go do and betray Him as Judas had planned to do.

Mat 26:24 The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed!

Also notice that there were only two swords for the thirteen of them, so it cannot be taken as a blanket statement to arm oneself, even for self-defense.

He told them ALL to sell their extra cloak and buy a sword.

iakov the fool

 

[WIP]

I personally don't see the correlation between gun control and curbing mass murder. Much of Europe has extremely strict gun control and yet there are mass murders in the news quite regularly, some using firearms and some using explosives. Gun control laws are already quite strict, at least in my home state of Minnesota. I've posted the rules on CFnet before and could do it again to show how strict they are.

 

[Jim Parker]

I personally don't see the correlation between gun control and curbing mass murder.

No level of gun control has been effective in reducing gun violence.

In fact, the 32 states that have "must issue" laws for concealed carry permits have lower crime rates than states with "may issue" (AKA: won't issue) laws.

Note that all the mass murders, to which the liberal response is more gun control, have been committed against people in "gun free zones." Criminals and terrorists intentionally pick their victims from among people who they know are unable to defend themselves against guns.

Note that the nut case who murdered the black people in the Charleston AME church didn't go to a bar, night club, or juke joint primarily frequented by black people. He went to a group he knew would be unarmed.

Who are the so-called gun control laws aimed at, criminals or law abiding citizens?

Apparently; Law abiding citizens.

iakov the fool

 

[Free]

I personally don't see the correlation between gun control and curbing mass murder. Much of Europe has extremely strict gun control and yet there are mass murders in the news quite regularly, some using firearms and some using explosives. Gun control laws are already quite strict, at least in my home state of Minnesota. I've posted the rules on CFnet before and could do it again to show how strict they are.

What would be interesting is a chart showing all the states with their level of gun control and the number of mass murders that have occurred in each, or even just general gun violence, preferably both.

 

[Free]

Nonsense. If they were insurrectionists then every man would have had a sword, but certainly not just two men out of all his followers.

Why is it hard for you to consider context? The "for" at the start of verse 37 links back to what was just said in verse 36, namely, "let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one." (ESV)

Really?? Christians have never had a need to defend themselves against anyone?

I didn't say that nor even imply it. Please read what I wrote.

Of course He knew what was going to happen.

So did Jesus know that they wouldn't need to defend themselves or not? You first argue against this point and now you are using it.

He told them ALL to sell their extra cloak and buy a sword.

And? He also said two were enough. This is not a blanket statement for his followers to arm themselves. It is a misuse of Scripture to suggest that it is.

 

[WIP]

What would be interesting is a chart showing all the states with their level of gun control and the number of mass murders that have occurred in each, or even just general gun violence, preferably both.

Information like that is difficult to find. As with any statistic, things can be slanted pretty easily. One that I noticed quite a bit is that by far the most common firearm related deaths are with suicide. Finding information relating homicide to gun control or firearms ownership etc. I found to be more difficult. I might try to find more but I finally found a couple, although I was unable to verify validity of either one or where the data was compiled from so they could just as easily be something someone made up. Both show a downward trend as gun ownership rises.
View attachment 7967

View attachment 7968

I also found this one on a blogspot. Again, unable to validate the validity of the data.
View attachment 7969

 

[reba]

You guys have more charts then EndTimes preacher..

 

[th1b.taylor]

You guys have more charts then EndTimes preacher..

The Army was full of charts when we would prepare for an operation... none of them were ever correct.

 

[Pizza]

Look, if we just shoot all the mass shooters, then the mass shootings will stop.

Armed Americans must be the only answer, since keeping jihadists out is out of the question.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Is it possible? Your spiritual biblical views.

I'am afraid not. I feel that the political and Godless government that has usurped our constitution with willful cunning and bold faced lies have allowed the ungodly to many footholds and roots in this land. The sad thing is that those who sit in the high places with their wickedness, will not escape the destruction from the very things they purposelessly put on us. The united States has 100's of anti American militant training camps for Muslim Jihadist. I'm afraid their roots are too deep.

 

[Jim Parker]

Is it possible? Your spiritual biblical views.

Just to add a bit of perspective:

Death Causes in USA per year (Approximate)

HIV 5686 16/day
Kidney Disease 8564 23/day
Respiratory Disease 8679 24/day
Diabetes 11,934 33/day
Accident 12,215 33/day
Homicide 12,795 35/day
Cancer 63,279 173/day
Heart Disease 69,918 192/day
In Hospital Medical Error 195,000 285/day
Abortion 1,060,000 2909/day

It appears that, if we want to ban something in order to reduce unnecessary deaths, we should start by banning abortion mills and hospitals.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Why is it hard for you to consider context?

Now, now! Be nice!

The "for" at the start of verse 37 links back to what was just said in verse 36, namely, "let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one." (ESV)

I didn't say that nor even imply it. Please read what I wrote.

So did Jesus know that they wouldn't need to defend themselves or not? You first argue against this point and now you are using it.
And? He also said two were enough. This is not a blanket statement for his followers to arm themselves. It is a misuse of Scripture to suggest that it is.

No, it doesn't.

To quote you, "I didn't say that nor even imply it. Please read what I wrote." (Sounds ugly coming back at you, doesn't it?)

"let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one." is a blanket statement. The word "one" is the equivalent of "anyone." and the fact that Jesus was not talking about the immediately following events, makes it a blanket statement.

iakov the fool

 

[th1b.taylor]

No, it doesn't.

To quote you, "I didn't say that nor even imply it. Please read what I wrote." (Sounds ugly coming back at you, doesn't it?)

"let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one." is a blanket statement. The word "one" is the equivalent of "anyone." and the fact that Jesus was not talking about the immediately following events, makes it a blanket statement.

iakov the fool

LOL! Jim, you push to hard... what, do you expect people to listen to what they read and post?

 

[iLOVE]

Just to add a bit of perspective:

Death Causes in USA per year (Approximate)

HIV 5686 16/day
Kidney Disease 8564 23/day
Respiratory Disease 8679 24/day
Diabetes 11,934 33/day
Accident 12,215 33/day
Homicide 12,795 35/day
Cancer 63,279 173/day
Heart Disease 69,918 192/day
In Hospital Medical Error 195,000 285/day
Abortion 1,060,000 2909/day

It appears that, if we want to ban something in order to reduce unnecessary deaths, we should start by banning abortion mills and hospitals.

iakov the fool

Keep on preaching!

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

So banning machinists ,who haven't commited a crime.banning guns didn't work for the soviets nor russia.they have the highest murder rate.remember we react emotionally to thus but not wince with the higher deaths from drunk driving.

Sorry for replying so late in the thread to this Jasonc, but I lost track of where this comment was to reply to.

I wince at drunk driving deaths. And I'm thankful that my Father-in-law survived a head on collision with a drunk driver. In my community it recoginizes the toll of drinking and has made steps to try and reduce the impact. Volunteer programs to drive college students back to the dorms so they don't drive drunk come to mind. At least one other program that I know of exists for non students in my area.

In my opinion comparing a tragic growing issue like mass killings to another tragic ongoing issue like drunk driving deaths, saying "it's not as bad as that, don't worry about it," is a very wrong outlook. It's as if you lessen then both, as if neither matter.

 

[jasonc]

Sorry for replying so late in the thread to this Jasonc, but I lost track of where this comment was to reply to.

I wince at drunk driving deaths. And I'm thankful that my Father-in-law survived a head on collision with a drunk driver. In my community it recoginizes the toll of drinking and has made steps to try and reduce the impact. Volunteer programs to drive college students back to the dorms so they don't drive drunk come to mind. At least one other program that I know of exists for non students in my area.

In my opinion comparing a tragic growing issue like mass killings to another tragic ongoing issue like drunk driving deaths, saying "it's not as bad as that, don't worry about it," is a very wrong outlook. It's as if you lessen then both, as if neither matter.

The facts is collectively more die from alcohol then guns .yet I can make bombs from alcohol easily. Molotov cocktails