How Did Lucifer Fall?

[JLB]

I have been thinking about this question (How did Lucifer fall?) off and on for quite a little while now, and I think it's time to ask it in the forum.

Now, our God is the God of creation. He does not make mistakes or do anything wrong, right? That's a given. So...Lucifer was created in perfection. AFAIK, he was very top dog among the Angels, above them all I think. At the very least, he was like...the vice President so to speak. So with so much glory, blessing and responsibility upon him...how could there be iniquity within him? How could such a being who was created in perfection...fall.

I have no idea. Well, I do have an idea, but do not know if it is correct or not. (What do you think?) I think that Lucifer must have, thought upon the wrong things, and even dwelt upon them, meditated upon them...and we know that when we do that, it goes into our heart and becomes a part of who we are. (<That's scriptural). And then after that, how it went into his heart and became a part of him...the inevitable happened...out of the abundance of his heart, he spoke about it, and that is where he got himself into trouble. This is the only possibility that I can come up with. Shoot holes in it. Tell me where and why I am right or wrong. I am in no way being dogmatic about this, just curious.

We do know that, if we even look upon another in lust then we are guilty of adultery. In another place in scripture, it tells us what we should be thinking about...whatever is true, honest, just, pure, lovely or of good report and virtue...(Philippians 4:6-9), to think on these things. Scripture says that the power of life and death are in the tongue...so in this light, what I say makes sense to me.

So out of the abundance of our heart, our mouth will speak words. I believe that we frame up our own future according to what we think about. We shall be judged by our very thoughts. No wonder scripture says that we should meditate on the Word of God day and night and to never cease praying!

In the spiritual (Kingdom) realm, these things are probably magnified. So Lucifer probably thought about the wrong things, and did not take those thoughts captive and cast them down, but rather dwelled on them and then, whoosh! it went into his heart...and was all downhill from there because it became the greater abundance in his heart and then one day he spoke about it...to the other Angels, and some of them listened. This indicates that there is free will even in heaven, even amongst the Angels. God does not want a bunch of robots worshiping Him...He wants beings, of their own free will to choose to worship Him and to give Him the glory, to give Him their entire heart soul and being. And so, this is how it was possible for Lucifer who was created in perfection, to eventually turn against Almighty God and to become at enmity against God.

I don't recall the scriptures giving much insight upon this, so it is conjecture, yet does fit in with what scripture does say about how we are to take control of our thoughts and to not think on the wrong things, because of where that will lead us to.

What do you think? Comments? Corrections? Questions?

Covetousness.


He desired to be worshiped.



JLB

 

[Edward]

Covetousness.


He desired to be worshiped.



JLB

Yes Sir, Brother. I noticed that too. He seems kind of hung up on wanting to be worshiped. That thought has came into mny mind before, wow it would be nice to be "GOD", but that scared me and I cast that thought down because, I would not want to be God. Too much responsibility. Never could I be worthy to be a god. And who in their right mind could ever even think of being...against God?! He is a good God!

He thought the wrong things and dwelled on them too much.

I heard a testimony once, where a Pastor recounted an incident that happened at his church. There was a young guy and his mamma kept dragging him to church and he did come sometimes. But at home he got into mischief and the drug thing. And somewhere along the line, he started reading about Hitler. He read Mein Kumpf and even had a poster of Hitler in his bedroom. And he would sit there and read about Hitler and look at the poster...and he made a connection with it. What one dwells on they connect with. So one Sunday, he is in church and sitting in the back where he always did, and at some point, he took offense to something the Pastor said and he stood up and started walking the asile approaching the pulpit in a menacing way while cussing out the pastor in German! And he had never learned German. He was an American boy.

The Pastor took authority and cast the demon out after a small incident, but it's a noteworthy testimony in that it shows that what people think on, dwell on, they connect with and become. So no wonder we were advised to pray without ceasing and meditate on God's Word Day and Night.

This is some serious spiritual warfare going on. We have to cling to Jesus.

No wonder the Lord has been teaching me about distractions...wasting time that I coud be in prayer with Him. Entertainment, is this video game bad or good? How about that movie? It's tame...BUT, does it take my time away from being with my Lord and focused on Him? So yes, it's all bad. It is supposed to be, 100% detached from the world...Personally, I feel as if I may be dangling around 98%...and it bugs me. But I am learning and the Lord is still helping me. It is hard to give up the world and worldly things 100%. So cast those thoughts down in Christ and run, don't walk, to the Lord when you sin and give in to temptation.

King David always would mess up but then ask forgiveness and repent, turning back to the Lord...Always. And that is why King David is a man after God's own heart.

 

[Edward]

First of all one cannot commit adultery if they aren't married (maybe engaged counts though and the other person is married I'm not sure) but that doesn't mean lust isn't a sin because it is. Second of all forgive me for answering your question with a question. Why did Adam and Eve fall? Simple. God gave them both free will so that means He must have done the same with the angels that He created. Basically the same thing that you just said.

Well, for the unmarried,scripture calls that Fornication. Similar to adultery but just indicates an unmarried person instead of married. The unmarried have no more sexual freedoms than married people do. It's not like, I'm not married so I can sleep with whoever I want to...Uh, no!

 

[for_his_glory]

yep, that's him. he thought wrong, it changed him, he became haughty, then he started lying. An anointed Cherub. If an anointed cherub can fall and turn mean, then...how lucky we are that Our Lord is pure love?

A Cherub is still an Angel though, right? Doesn't scripture say that man was created in God's own image and above the Angels? One day we will even judge Angels? Which ones? The fallen Angels, or the good Angels? It doesn't really say. We have right now all authority over fallen Angels and evil spirits. In Christ and Christ in us. In Jesus's mighty name, none of them could stand against a Spirit filled Christian.

We have a lot to look forward to!

A Cherub is an angel, which is a created spirit, and this is why God could not destroy him as you can not kill a spirit. A Cherub is a highly favored angel like Satan was who directly attended to God. Yes, by God's grace we do have power and authority over all the evil principalities within the spiritual realm.

 

[for_his_glory]

I think Lucifer was a King of Babylon.

In a way he was as being an evil influence to Nebuchadnezzar and all rulers even today that oppose God.

 

[for_his_glory]

Edward

I really like this topic as everyone needs to know who the adversary is that only wants to steal our faith. Some people don't want to talk about Satan as they deem it gives place to him, but I say we need to teach that of what tries to come against us so we can guard ourselves with the full armor of God.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Edward

I really like this topic as everyone needs to know who the adversary is that only wants to steal our faith. Some people don't want to talk about Satan as they deem it gives place to him, but I say we need to teach that of what tries to come against us so we can guard ourselves with the full armor of God.

Yeah, I still don't really understand why we're going to judge angels though.

 

[Corn Pop]

Cool! :wink Although that is a bit random to say. I couldn't do that though because I would probably get seasick.

I have always had a vision of living on a boat. Do you know how cool it would be to fish in bed. Lol. I stayed on a house boat once and was literally fishing through a hole in the lounge floor while watching TV and caught a snapper. Lol.

 

[Edward]

A Cherub is an angel, which is a created spirit, and this is why God could not destroy him as you can not kill a spirit. A Cherub is a highly favored angel like Satan was who directly attended to God. Yes, by God's grace we do have power and authority over all the evil principalities within the spiritual realm.

Yeah! And I guess He calls it death for them even if they aren't going to die. Just eternal torment because that is no life just being in prison being eternally tormented and hurt and punished. Wow. Yep, that's not life, life is dwelling in the very presence of God Himself and without any sin temptation or enemy.

See, Satan can not touch God. So he goes after God's creation. He knows that God loves us and he must hate that.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yeah! And I guess He calls it death for them even if they aren't going to die. Just eternal torment because that is no life just being in prison being eternally tormented and hurt and punished. Wow. Yep, that's not life, life is dwelling in the very presence of God Himself and without any sin temptation or enemy.

See, Satan can not touch God. So he goes after God's creation. He knows that God loves us and he must hate that.

I think our faith is always going to be tested by Satan, but for him to bring any physical harm on us is only by God allowing him to like that of Job who stood the testing of his faith in God. I think Satan learned a lesson there.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yeah, I still don't really understand why we're going to judge angels though.

Angels are not created in the image of God like humans are and are not redeemed by Christ like we are as there is no sin found in the ones that serve God and those who are in Christ.

The third of the angels that have followed after Satan and those other angels who have left their first estate, meaning chose to not serve God, that we read about in Jude 1:6 that are reserved in everlasting chains, not literal chains, will be judged by God.

1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

As far as I can see in scripture is that in our fleshly bodies here on earth we are made a little lower than the angels like Jesus was when He came in human form, Hebrews 2:6-9. Judging angels only occurs when Christ returns and we are given our new glorified bodies, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 for at that time we will rule with Christ over the nations.

For now angels are superior to humans as they minister to us while we are on this planet, but in the millennial kingdom angels will be judged by us, but does not mean angels are inferior to Christians in power and capability. We will only be superior in rank over the angels.

No where in scripture does it explain what this judgement over the angels will be all about.

 

[dianegcook]

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

This is what happened to Lucifer as we call him Satan who is called by many names such as Satan, Devil, Beelzebub, Belial, Adversary, Dragon, Serpent and I’m sure a few others. The name Satan comes from a Hebrew word sah-TAHN which means adversary as in signifying an enemy, and an accuser, father of lies.

Satan was created perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill as he was an anointed cherub created by God. God placed him as the guardian or protector over the throne of God in heaven. He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord.

God created the earth and saw that it was good and he took Lucifer from Gods Holy Mountain and set him over the Garden of Eden as a covering cherub to watch over and enjoy all that was of God. As Lucifer was set in the garden iniquity was soon found in him as he defiled Gods sanctuary through pride in his own beauty and deceit as he wanted all that was of Gods here on earth to be his own as he tried to make his throne above the angels and be God.

Because iniquity was found in him God cast him and those angels who chose to follow him out of his holy mountain and cast them all down to earth to be trampled of all nations. The only reference in scripture that denotes there being one third of the angels falling with Satan is in Revelation 12:9.
(Ref: Read Ezekiel Chapter 28 Prince of Tyrus – another dual referent to Satan)

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

God is a Spirit without form and the Lord made his angels spirits without form also. From these two scriptures below in John and Psalms we see that the inhabitants of heaven are not flesh and blood, but spirits created by God that cannot be destroyed by physical death, thus the term spiritual death that separates us from God. This is why Satan could never be physically destroyed.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Psalms 104:4 who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

I agree with some of the things you presented here,
BUT, always a but, lol
You said that God nor the angels have a form.
When God stated, Let's make man in our image, was it without form?
In Heb.1:3, pertaining to the Son

Who being the brightness of His glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON....

Meaning, the exact impression, as when metal is pressed into a die, or a seal upon wax.
Person=substance

 

[dianegcook]

Why did Lucifer fall?
Pride!
Satan use to guard the mercy sit, cherub, he wanted to sit on the mercy sit, take Christ's place.
Rebellion.....
As we will see here, he will try again.
2Thess.2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that He AS GOD sitteth in the temple of God, SHOWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD.

 

[for_his_glory]

I agree with some of the things you presented here,
BUT, always a but, lol
You said that God nor the angels have a form.
When God stated, Let's make man in our image, was it without form?
In Heb.1:3, pertaining to the Son

Who being the brightness of His glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON....

Meaning, the exact impression, as when metal is pressed into a die, or a seal upon wax.
Person=substance

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

We were created in the likeness of God that is the image of His characteristics like love and compassion. God is spirit form, not flesh and blood as we are. The person of God is also His characteristics.

 

[dianegcook]

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

We were created in the likeness of God that is the image of His characteristics like love and compassion. God is spirit form, not flesh and blood as we are. The person of God is also His characteristics.

Yes, I see what you are saying,
BUT, lol
Rev.19:10
John fell at the angel's feet, must had some kind of form.
Jesus had form after He risen.

In 2Kings 6:15-18
Elisha prayed to God, to open his servants eye, into the spiritual realm, and saw the mountains full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha..

They that be with us are more than they that be with them.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, I see what you are saying,
BUT, lol
Rev.19:10
John fell at the angel's feet, must had some kind of form.
Jesus had form after He risen.

In 2Kings 6:15-18
Elisha prayed to God, to open his servants eye, into the spiritual realm, and saw the mountains full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha..

They that be with us are more than they that be with them.

I love your "buts".

I would have to say all of these fall into the category of Spiritual visions just as being in the Spirit within the Spiritual realm of God like John was when he was on the isle of Patmos. He was only in the Spirit and not caught up to heaven to receive these revelations.

Story short, I remember one time a friend of mine that lived out of state asked me to cast out an evil spirit that was in her son. The first thing I did was pray and asked God what this evil spirit looked liked and what I was about to deal with. God gave me a vision of this hugh hideous monster type figure and to make sure I had my full armor on to go into battle

 

[Edward]

I have always had a vision of living on a boat. Do you know how cool it would be to fish in bed. Lol. I stayed on a house boat once and was literally fishing through a hole in the lounge floor while watching TV and caught a snapper. Lol.

That is pretty cool! When I was young I had a big vision of living on a boat. But I only met the ocean on a brief vacation and they moved me and introduced me to a mountains instead, so houseboat vision all gone now, lol.

If you live on a house boat, then you are not subject to certain mainland laws anymore but have maritime laws which can be pretty advantageous from what I know. It's what I heard anyway, or read somewhere.

 

[Corn Pop]

That is pretty cool! When I was young I had a big vision of living on a boat. But I only met the ocean on a brief vacation and they moved me and introduced me to a mountains instead, so houseboat vision all gone now, lol.

If you live on a house boat, then you are not subject to certain mainland laws anymore but have maritime laws which can be pretty advantageous from what I know. It's what I heard anyway, or read somewhere.

The maritime laws arnt too bad and mostly common sense.