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How do Calvinists know, that they have eternal life ?

My question to you would be, "do you believe that God reaches out to ALL people or just to a small remnant of "elect" that He choose before the foundation of the world ? Because this makes a big difference...
Well consider this:

Romans 9:14-18 (ESV):
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
 
Friendly quip: Let's not turn this into an attack the Calvinists thread.

I don't see this as an attack, but a friendly disagreement. there has been no name calling (from either side) no foul words, no stern judgments or angry retorts. If you have seen any of these please let us know???
 
I don't see this as an attack, but a friendly disagreement. there has been no name calling (from either side) no foul words, no stern judgments or angry retorts. If you have seen any of these please let us know???
theLords stated "let's not turn" - implying that the thread has yet to turn into an attack on Calvinists.

theLord's warning is appropriate and relevant - lately there has been many threads on Calvinism/TULIP etc and many have been more than a friendly disagreement.
 
Aren't the elect the one and the same who were chosen (predestined) to be conformed to the image of Christ? I.E. Christians? Isn't 'chosen' the same as 'selected'?

The "chosen" people were the Jews of old. The elect are a combination of both Jew and Gentile believer's who have placed their faith in Christ. The Gentiles were "branched" in...
 
Why do you present predestination and free will as mutually exclusive?

Due to the fact that, predestination involves God choosing (from before the foundation of the world) whom He would save and whom would be damned. Whereas, free-will declares that man is free to choose in whom he will believe and put his trust...But none the less, still needs the "conviction" of the Holy Spirit...
 
Well consider this:

Romans 9:14-18 (ESV):
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

That is true in the case of Pharaoh. However, Pharaoh's heart was already hardened by himself and God is able to harden the hearts as He so chooses (such as with Pharaoh) in order to bring about His will. But this happens on an individual basis (in order to have His will be done) with "certain" individual's not as a "whole."
 
Due to the fact that, predestination involves God choosing (from before the foundation of the world) whom He would save and whom would be damned. Whereas, free-will declares that man is free to choose in whom he will believe and put his trust...But none the less, still needs the "conviction" of the Holy Spirit...
Have a read of Romans 9-11, they are both clearly presented there. It's like the paradox of the Divinity of Christ - both fully God and fully man, and the paradox that is the Trinity - both three and and one.

All of these three 'paradoxes' are dealing with the very nature of God. It should not seem surprising that this is extremely complex for us.

BTW, only double predestination states that God chooses who to save and who to damn. Whereas single predestination states that God chooses who to save only.
 
theLords stated "let's not turn" - implying that the thread has yet to turn into an attack on Calvinists.

theLord's warning is appropriate and relevant - lately there has been many threads on Calvinism/TULIP etc and many have been more than a friendly disagreement.

That's fair...
 
That is true in the case of Pharaoh. However, Pharaoh's heart was already hardened by himself and God is able to harden the hearts as He so chooses (such as with Pharaoh) in order to bring about His will. But this happens on an individual basis (in order to have His will be done) with "certain" individual's not as a "whole."
How can hardening of hearts etc not be done on an individual basis?
 
Have a read of Romans 9-11, they are both clearly presented there. It's like the paradox of the Divinity of Christ - both fully God and fully man, and the paradox that is the Trinity - both three and and one.

All of these three 'paradoxes' are dealing with the very nature of God. It should not seem surprising that this is extremely complex for us.

BTW, only double predestination states that God chooses who to save and who to damn. Whereas single predestination states that God chooses who to save only.

Esau and Jacob were "individually" representatives of two different peoples that would come from them. (one would serve the other) This should not be taken as proof that predestination of the elect has total credence...
 
How can hardening of hearts etc not be done on an individual basis?

You have asked, "How can hardening of hearts etc not be done on an individual basis? Like I mentioned, it is done in accordance with God's will in order to achieve, God's will in a given circumstance...
 
Have a read of Romans 9-11, they are both clearly presented there. It's like the paradox of the Divinity of Christ - both fully God and fully man, and the paradox that is the Trinity - both three and and one.

All of these three 'paradoxes' are dealing with the very nature of God. It should not seem surprising that this is extremely complex for us.

BTW, only double predestination states that God chooses who to save and who to damn. Whereas single predestination states that God chooses who to save only.

By choosing to "Save" a certain grouping of people, "is" to choose the other's to be damned either way you look at it...these two extremes are "inseparable."
 
By choosing to "Save" a certain grouping of people, "is" to choose the other's to be damned either way you look at it...these two extremes are "inseparable."
I'm not going to pretend that I understnd single predestination in that it is effectively the same as double predestination, as you said. But there must be more to it than that.
 
You say,"If you have some other way you came to Christ then great. If you simply believe and are saved for that without God doing so for you then have at it." No one comes to Christ without first hearing the Word of God, and next having the Holy Spirit "convict" the heart of a man, through that same Word. On that we agree. Man, of himself will not come to God. The Word and the Holy Spirit combined are necessary...I eventually came to Christ after asking my Mother, (at 12 year's old) "were we going to Hell?" She said, "probably." That was "many year's ago." And God lead me and my family to the truth soon thereafter. The Calvinist would say, I came because I was "chosen" I believe I came to truth because, God was helping me in the direction of "seeking" Him...As He does with ALL men...


Then what's the rub?

My question to you would be, "do you believe that God reaches out to ALL people or just to a small remnant of "elect" that He choose before the foundation of the world ? Because this makes a big difference...

God is available to all people. Salvation is possible for all people, and I believe God calls all people, but that not all will answer, or respond.

Maybe this will help. Turn your question around a bit. Dose God "choose" the damned?

Salvation is not the 8th grade scramble football game where the two cool kids say, I'll take billy; ok I'll take Joey and fight over who gets Nathan. That's not what "Chosen" means in this case.
 
Then what's the rub?



God is available to all people. Salvation is possible for all people, and I believe God calls all people, but that not all will answer, or respond.

Maybe this will help. Turn your question around a bit. Dose God "choose" the damned?

Salvation is not the 8th grade scramble football game where the two cool kids say, I'll take billy; ok I'll take Joey and fight over who gets Nathan. That's not what "Chosen" means in this case.

You say,"God is available to all people. Salvation is possible for all people, and I believe God calls all people, but that not all will answer, or respond." Well, I see your not a Calvinist. I was more interested in how a "Calvinist" might answer the question....To answer your question, God does not "choose" either. God's Grace is open to ALL of mankind. To anyone who is willing to place their faith in Christ...Those who will not respond to God's Grace are truly doomed...
 
By choosing to "Save" a certain grouping of people, "is" to choose the other's to be damned either way you look at it...these two extremes are "inseparable."

Lutheran theology is more single predestination...that God chooses who is going to be saved, but not necessarily who will be in hell.

Because this is where free will does come in. Left to ourselves, we would never "choose" God...the Bible does teach that we are so prone to sin, so dead in our sins, it takes the Holy Spirit to awaken us to our need for salvation. As it states in Ephesians, God chose us, before the foundations of the world.

However, once we are opened to the gospel, once we are regenerated...we can then go back. We can indeed reject God's grace. This is where Lutherans and Calvinist part company. There is no "irresistible grace" in Lutheran theology. And, if grace is not irresistible...if one can reject God's offer of grace and turn away from Him...then there is no "double predestination".

Our salvation is secured for us wholly and only by Christ's work on the cross...we can do nothing to effect our own salvation. But, those who are damned are damned because they reject Christ.

There can be no single predestination and irresistible grace...However, with irresistible grace there is, of necessity, double predestination.

I've never had a problem with predestination, it is clearly taught in a number of Scriptures. Where I parted company with the Calvinists was over the idea of irresistible grace. The Scriptures are filled with examples of God extending His grace to men and having them reject that grace.
 
You say,"God is available to all people. Salvation is possible for all people, and I believe God calls all people, but that not all will answer, or respond." Well, I see your not a Calvinist. I was more interested in how a "Calvinist" might answer the question....To answer your question, God does not "choose" either. God's Grace is open to ALL of mankind. To anyone who is willing to place their faith in Christ...Those who will not respond to God's Grace are truly doomed...

No you do not see that I'm not a "Calvinist" you don't understand Calvin. A Calvinist did answer you. But, aside from that You don't need a Calvinist to answer you. You already have the answer, but your twisted on John Calvin.
 
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