[_ Old Earth _] How do dinosaurs fit with the Bible? @@@@@@

[Guest]

read genesis chapters 1 and 2
mm..
mm..
mm.

I want to know where in the bible, dinosaurs existence were evident?
I know NOAH had taken into the ark every creeping animal of its kind
birds of its kind
clean animals two by two
unclean animals 7 by 7 *** there were unclean & clean animals b4 MOSES...
mmmm

this is DEEP FOLKS..

So before NOAH's ark.. an ice age had happened and then a destruction of dinosaurs then a incoming of humans' existence took place thereafter.. what you think?
Something seems wrong here.. ADAM named the animals.. plants... stars... planets.... and he was aware of the anatonmy as well.. So from the very beginning of our existence we were intelligent..

we didnt live in caves... had speech... religion... family structure... purpose
nothing was created by an accident of a big bang ( evolution of creation ) .. the big bang theory is a lie..

as according to the big bang, evolution .,amoeba., life began in the water and marshlands, ice age.. ape people ... fire.....bronze age.. we have evolved from animal to modern man..
so from ou beginnings we could talk .. we hunted ... we were animals' skins ... we werent intelligent..
EVolution supporters preach that ALL LIFE STARTED IN THE SEA or marshlands ( amoeba)
then life crawled out out the water n evolved..
the 1st animals were reptiles
therefore birds were ONCE reptile- like creatures?

ALL OF THE TEACHING... DOCTRINES N RESEARCHERS EVOLUTION & THE BIG BANG ARE FALSE..
GRANITE ROCK CAN BE CREATED IN LABS
wow!!!
diamonds are created in labs too
in a jewellery store ... the customer service rep.. will ask u if u want an artificial diamond or real?

dinosaurs could have been experiments ... of mens ..

a large trex... with small arms and a huge body
mmm
freak creatures
anyways .,, the bible doesnt mention dinosaurs

the word DINO MEANS .... SUPER ... AND STRANGE AND 1ST
WHEN GOD made animals he said that they were good
they were freaky looking and had to evolved because GOD didnt finish the creation process
so evolution supporters belive that GOD does half of a job... mmm
GOD FORBID...

 

[jasoncran]

this is best for the science section and pm free if you wish to debate this. and while i'm not a thiestic evolutionist. your argument needs some work.

much work and reasearch.

on the scientific side mainly.

 

[Ashua]

Keep reading your Bible. What scholars consider the oldest book in the Bible (not chronologically) is Job.

Are you asking why the word "Dinosaur" doesnt appear in a text written in Hebrew which was translated to Greek and Latin and then to English first by the King James version in the year 1611 A.D. and contain the word "Dinosaur" which wasnt coined until 1841?


Behemoth
Hebrew Concordance
?????????
1) perhaps an extinct dinosaur

a) a Diplodocus or Brachiosaurus, exact meaning unknown

Job 40:15-24

Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eats grass as an ox.

Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

He moves his tail like a cedar (a tree): the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.

Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.

He lies under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.

The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.

Behold, he drinks up a river, and hastes not: he trusts that he can draw up Jordan river into his mouth.

He takes it with his eyes: his nose pierces through snares.

Leviathan
Hebrew Concordance
?????????
1) leviathan, sea monster, dragon

a) large aquatic animal

b) perhaps the extinct dinosaur, plesiosaurus, exact meaning unknown

Job 41

1Can you draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which you let down?

2Can you put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?

3Will he beg you for mercy or implore you for pity?

4Will he make a covenant with you? will you take him for a servant for ever?

5Will you play with him as with a bird? or will you bind him for thy maidens?

6Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?

7Can you fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?

8Lay your hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.

9No, it is useless to try to capture him. The man who attempts it will be struck down.

10None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me? (God)

11Who has prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.

12I will not conceal Leviathan's limbs, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.

13 Who can strip off its hide, and who can penetrate its double layer of armor?[

14 Who could pry open its jaws? his teeth are terrible round about.

15 Its scales are like rows of shields tightly sealed together.
16 They are so close together that no air can get between them.
17 Each scale sticks tight to the next.They interlock and cannot be penetrated.

18When it sneezes it flashes light, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.

19Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.

20Out of his nostrils goes smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.

21His breath kindles coals, and a flame goes out of his mouth.

22In his neck remains strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.

23The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be penetrated.

24His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.

25When he raises up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.

26 No sword can stop it, no spear, dart, or javelin.

27He esteems iron as if it were straw, and brass as rotten wood.

28The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.

29Darts are counted as stubble: he laughs at the shaking of a spear.

30Sharp stones are under him: he spreads sharp pointed things upon the mire.

31Leviathan makes the deep to boil like a pot: he makes the sea like a pot of ointment.

32He makes a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.

33 Nothing on earth is its equal, no other creature so fearless..

34 Of all the creatures, it is the proudest. It is the king of beasts.â€


Tanniyn
Hebrew Concordance
????????
1) dragon, serpent, sea monster

a) dragon or dinosaur

b) sea or river monster

c) serpent, venomous snake



Genesis 1:21 "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moves which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind; and God saw that it was good."

Where is the dragon mentioned?

In the "Defenders Study Bible" there is a footnote below this verse.

"Fish and other marine organisms were created simultaneously with birds and other flying creatures, in obvious contradiction to the sequence postulated by evolutionists. The "moving creature" (Hebrew sherets ) of Genesis 1:20 is translated elsewhere as "creeping thing", and here evidently refers to marine invertebrates and marine reptiles, as well as the fishes. The word translated "great whales" (Hebrew tannin) is elsewhere the regular word for "dragons," and most probably refers to the great marine reptiles often called dinosaurs."

If Noah took the Dinosaurs on the ark, you should know like most land animals, most dinosaurs were not "that" big ---especially in their youth. Of the larger dinosaurs, no small sum of them were aquatic.

It's interesting to note that fossilization requires water and burial. The flood of Noah provides both. Also of note, there are sea shells at the peak of the world's mountains--including Everest.

Have you ever wondered why virtually every ancient culture in the history of the world has a flood "myth"? perhaps it is rooted in truth. Have you ever wondered why those cultures, all divided by land and sea and jungle and desert and tongue all have "dragon" myths?
The following are Ica burial stones.

 

[jasoncran]

while we can talk on this subject, be aware the op starter has been banned.

 

[Tailgunner]

I realize that the last post here was months ago, but I did find the images on those burial stones fascinating. And yes, Ashua, you're absolutely right. When I read those passages in Job the first time, it sounded like dinosaurs. The description of Behemoth sounds exactly like that of a sauropod.

I found it slightly amusing though, that the footnotes in my Bible said that Behemoth was commonly thought to be a large animal, perhaps a hippopotamus or an elephant. And Leviathan was commonly thought to be a large aquatic animal, perhaps a crocodile! Go figure.

TG

 

[Ashua]

I realize that the last post here was months ago, but I did find the images on those burial stones fascinating. And yes, Ashua, you're absolutely right. When I read those passages in Job the first time, it sounded like dinosaurs. The description of Behemoth sounds exactly like that of a sauropod.

I found it slightly amusing though, that the footnotes in my Bible said that Behemoth was commonly thought to be a large animal, perhaps a hippopotamus or an elephant. And Leviathan was commonly thought to be a large aquatic animal, perhaps a crocodile! Go figure.

TG

Its funny how the behemoth's tail is described. Thats no hippo or elephant. The way leviathan cannot be injured by arrows or snared by a hook also rules out crocodile. Anyways, check out the other dinosaur thread for more images if you were impressed by these. I forget but I think these ones were "suspect" (of course they are) so I stopped using them. The other thread is really long and more debate is in it.

 

[Tailgunner]

Its funny how the behemoth's tail is described. Thats no hippo or elephant. The way leviathan cannot be injured by arrows or snared by a hook also rules out crocodile. Anyways, check out the other dinosaur thread for more images if you were impressed by these. I forget but I think these ones were "suspect" (of course they are) so I stopped using them. The other thread is really long and more debate is in it.

Which thread is it, or where is it posted? I will check it out.

TG

 

[Ashua]

http://www.christianforums.net/f22/man-dinosaur-29722/index6.html

Very long thread, but the link is of the page with many more artifacts.

 

[Chris]

Hmmm how do dinosours fit in the bible?

Open the bible
Put the dinosaur in
Close the bible.


Sorry couldn't resist it!

 

[Deavonreye]

The bible was written when people were much more superstitious. Mythical creatures were pondered, but such things were not real to the time written. What is clear from Job is that the writer drew upon they type of "understanding" [in the sense of understanding misconceptions] and used a form of poetic language to express his awe in who he saw as his god.

 

[Tailgunner]

The bible was written when people were much more superstitious. Mythical creatures were pondered, but such things were not real to the time written. What is clear from Job is that the writer drew upon they type of "understanding" [in the sense of understanding misconceptions] and used a form of poetic language to express his awe in who he saw as his god.

Deavonreye, I doubt they were any more "superstitious" than me, if what you mean by superstition is belief in God.

I would really like to get your thoughts, though, on Job chapter 40. If you look carefully at the description given of Behemoth, you do have to admit it describes what any paleontologist would call a sauropod; perhaps a Diplodicus or Apatosaurus (Brontosaurus). Let me know what you think.

TG

 

[Deavonreye]

I was talking about how people thought, in general, . . . in various different belief structures. They were superstitious.

As I look at Behemoth, I think it is reading a great deal into this poetic language to conclude an actual dinosaur from one small sentence about a tail being "like a cedar". I would even question that translation, to be honest. Regardless, where I find it hard to believe is in other parts of the description. It states that Behemoth is "first among the works of god". Are humans second? Angels third? What is the order of "the works of god" after this creature?

There is just so much "fantasy" in Job 40 . . .even more in Job 41.

 

[Tailgunner]

It states that Behemoth is "first among the works of god". Are humans second? Angels third? What is the order of "the works of god" after this creature?

First among the works has also been translated as chief among the works of God. I've always taken this to mean the largest, as in size of the animal. I've also read this in commentaries.

TG

 

[Deavonreye]

I just think it is fanciful thinking, to be honest. In this highly poetic type of writing, the meaning could be anything. Humans have what can be definitively argued as a hardwire to see patterns in things that may not necessarily be the case. If a person wants to see a dinosaur in a text, similar patterns can make it appear evidential to them.

There is no telling what the original writer was thinking when those words were written down. I personally don't believe the story to be literal, but that is beside the point.

As for this thread, I see nothing that could be definitive of "dinosaurs" in the biblical texts.

 

[Tailgunner]

I just think it is fanciful thinking, to be honest. In this highly poetic type of writing, the meaning could be anything. Humans have what can be definitively argued as a hardwire to see patterns in things that may not necessarily be the case. If a person wants to see a dinosaur in a text, similar patterns can make it appear evidential to them.

There is no telling what the original writer was thinking when those words were written down. I personally don't believe the story to be literal, but that is beside the point.

As for this thread, I see nothing that could be definitive of "dinosaurs" in the biblical texts.

Fair enough, Deavonreye. In your view, it's fanciful thinking, and you don't think the story to be literal. In my view, it is literal. However, I'm not really sure there are grounds for continued discussion, as it would only go in circles, but I really do appreciate your replying to me, though.

TG

 

[Deavonreye]

Fair enough, Deavonreye. In your view, it's fanciful thinking, and you don't think the story to be literal. In my view, it is literal. However, I'm not really sure there are grounds for continued discussion, as it would only go in circles, but I really do appreciate your replying to me, though.

TG

Sure thing, TG. BTW, you win the prize for best picture by a name. Love the B-17!! :waving

 

[Tailgunner]

Sure thing, TG. BTW, you win the prize for best picture by a name. Love the B-17!! :waving

Thanks! Glad you like it. To be honest, I can't even remember where I found it. I like yours also, especially because of the eye. Eerie effect.

TG

 

[Deavonreye]

Thanks! Glad you like it. To be honest, I can't even remember where I found it. I like yours also, especially because of the eye. Eerie effect.

TG

It's me as a Na`vi, from the movie Avatar. Some [well, a lot, actually] photo manipulation. Fun! And thanks for the comment.

 

[Pizzaguy]

I could go along with dinosaurs and men together... but I've got to say, I don't see it.

I just don't. Seems like science has pretty much verified that the dinos died out millions of years ago. I believe that dinos were on the earth long before man and that the early parts of Genesis:

1) Left a lot of details out.
2) Represent eons of time passing.

I'm not so much into the "gap" theory per se, but I DO think that an infinite God created an infinite universe. And, fact is, the more we have learned in the past 400 years - the bigger and bigger the universe has turned out to be. The mid evil church insisted on a small universe that comprised only the solar system with the stars plastered on a crystal sphere or two.

But now we KNOW that the universe is way bigger than that.

We started thinking, being VERY SURE that the sun went around the earth, that everything did. But, again, Christianity has had to admit that this is not the case at all.

There was even a guy, not even 130 years ago, Zetetic Astronomy, Earth Not A Globe Index that insisted that the earth was flat!!!! He based this on biblical texts that DID seem to make sense, to a certain degree.

I think it's time for us as Christians to face scientific fact - and stop with this struggle to get the universe to fit our translation and interpretation of the bible.

The Bible is not wrong, but we are. The earth is round, it goes around the sun, the universe is huge and both the earth and universe are UNIMAGINABLY old... infinitely old, it seems.

Infinite. Like God is infinite.

 

[mpok1519]

If Dinos and man had walked together, we would have found dino bones and human bones ALL OVER THE EARTH. No, Dinos did not walk with man.

Genesis is very very sumbolic and metaphorical; literary devices such as "God created the world in 7 days" are just that, literary devices meant to convey another message through metaphors and symbols.