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How do Jehovah’s Witnesses’ teachings about Christ compare with Scriptures?

Lewis

Member
jesus1.gif
Part 1 Many people are confused about the Jehovah’s Witnesses. People have written to ask if they are Christians or do they worship a different God? The following article may help to answer this important questions.
Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christians have some things in common. For example, they share common concerns about religious apostasy, and they teach against Evolution.
Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christians do, however, differ on many important doctrines. In an attempt to keep this article to a reasonable length, let us not concentrate on ALL the differences. Rather…
…LET US INVESTIGATE THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE, THE PERSON OF JESUS CHRIST.

JW’s believe that Jesus Christ was a perfect man, and that He is a person distinct from God the Father. However, they also teach that before His earthly life, Jesus was a spirit creature, Michael the archangel, who was created by God and became the Messiah at His baptism. According to Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jesus is a mighty one, although not almighty as Jehovah God is. According to John 1:1 in their Bible, The New World Translation, Christ is “a god,” but not “the God.” They teach that Jesus “was and is and always will be beneath Jehovah” and that “Christ and God are not coequal”.
Does the Bible confirm their beliefs, or does it teach the orthodox Christian concept that Christ is God? This is an extremely important question. Consider the following points:

  1. The Christ of the New Testament is the Jehovah of the Old Testament.

These verses demonstrate that the name “Jehovah” is used for both God the Father and of God the Son. Although they are distinct persons they are each called “Jehovah” because they each possess deity.
How do Jehovah's Witnesses' teachings about Christ compare with Scriptures? - ChristianAnswers.Net
 
Part 2

  1. The deity of Christ is taught in Scripture.
    In Matthew 1:23, Christ is called “Immanuel,†which means “God with us.â€
    When Thomas touched Jesus' wounds, after the resurrection, he exclaimed, “My Lord and my God†(John 20:28). There is no basis whatsoever for saying, as some JW’s say, that Thomas was referring to Christ when he said “my Lord,†but was referring to God (Jehovah) when he said “my God.†Instead, Thomas called Christ both his Lord and his God. And Christ did not correct him! Colossians 2:9 clearly confirms the deity of Christ when it states that in Him “all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily†(New World Translation). Stephen called Jesus “Lord†(Acts 7:59,60), and we are to confess Jesus as Lord (Rom. 10:9; I Cor. 12:3). “Lord†in these verses is Kurios, which is the Greek word for Jehovah in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament. It is evident from this that Christ the Lord (kurios) is Jehovah God.
  2. Attributes of Christ show that He is God
    Jesus Christ knows all things (John 1:48; 2:25; 6:64; 14:30; 21:17). He is all-powerful (Matt. 28:18; Heb. 1:3), sinless (John 8:46), eternal (Mic. 5:2), and unchanging (Heb. 13:8). Since only God possesses these attributes, Christ must be God.
  3. Certain works of Christ show that He is God.
    Jesus Christ has the power to forgive sins (Mark 2:5-7; Eph. 1:7), give eternal life (John 10:28; 17:2), judge the world (John 5:22, 27), and control nature (Matt. 8:26). Since only God can do these things, Christ must be God.
  4. Christ received worship as God.
    Jesus is worshipped by the angels (Heb. 1:6) and by man (Matt. 14:33), and yet only God is to be worshipped (Ex. 34:14). Christ Himself said that worship is due to God alone (Matt. 4:10), and yet He accepted worship. If Jesus in His pre-existent state were the archangel Michael, how could He have received worship, since angels are not allowed to receive worship (Rev. 19:10)? If Christ were not God, then worshipping Him would be idolatrous.
  5. Jesus Christ is called “the mighty God†in Isaiah 9:6.
    JW’s have a ready answer for this verse. They explain that Christ is “the mighty god.†but not “the almighty.†They say that Christ is the mighty, never the almighty and that Jehovah is the almighty God, never the mighty. However, Jeremiah 32:18 shows that Jehovah is the mighty One. Therefore, since Christ is the mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) and Jehovah is the mighty God (Jer. 32:18), they are both God. They both possess full deity.
 
Part 3


  1. Christ is God, the Creator of all things according to Colossians 1:15-17.
    JW’s refer to this passage to support their teaching that Christ was created by Jehovah (for example, Let God Be True, p.35). This is based primarily on the words, “the firstborn of all creation,†in verse 15. However, if this verse was teaching that Jesus Christ is the first created being made by God, the word “first-created†would have been used of Christ, not the word “firstborn.†These are two different words in the Greek, with two different meanings. “First-created†is protoktistos, and “firstborn†is prototokos. Colossians 1:15 does not use the protoktistos, “first-created.†Instead it uses prototokos, which means an heir, a begotten one, the first in rank. The teaching of Colossians 1:15 is that Christ is first in rank above all creation; He is the Heir of all things. He is prior to all creation and superior over it.
    The JW’s New World Translation adds the word “other†four times in Colossians 1:15-17, so that the passage states that Christ created “all other things,†everything except Himself. However, there is no basis for adding “other.†It certainly does not occur in the Greek manuscripts. The translators of the New World Translation admit this by putting “other†in brackets. This “translation†attempts to comply with the assumption that firstborn means first-created. But, as shown, this is not the meaning of firstborn, and therefore it is also wrong to add the word “other.†There is no verse in the entire Bible that states that Christ was created by Jehovah!
  2. Christ claimed to be equal with God in John 10:30.
    JW’s believe that this verse, “I and the Father are one,†means that Christ was one with God the Father in purpose and not in nature and essence. However, if that was all Christ was saying, why did the Jews want to stone Him? They themselves thought His purpose was the same as God’s. Verse 33 of John 10 explains that they wanted to stone Him because of blasphemy, because He claimed to be God!
The deity of Christ is the central point of the Scriptures. It clearly teaches that Christ is God. The teachings of the Jehovah’s Witness' concerning Jesus Christ clearly contradict the teachings of the Bible. Passages such as Philippians 2:5-11 tell us that Jesus Christ, who existed as God, took the bodily form of a humble servant so that He could die on the cross in our place. “Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (kurios), to the glory of God the Father.â€
How do Jehovah's Witnesses' teachings about Christ compare with Scriptures? - ChristianAnswers.Net
 
Lewis W:

Good info. on a very important Biblical subject - supremely important.

The Biblical witness to the deity of Christ is clear, and central to the message of the Gospel.
 
How can the Jehovah Witnesses not see these errors on their part, but it just goes to show you. some people can be taught anything.And there is one more thing a boy on m my childhood street almost died when his mother a Jehovah Witnesswould not allow him to receive blood, but his father who was not a JW signed the paper allowing little Billy to receive blood and Billy is now in his 40's today.

Why won't Jehovah Witnesses receive blood even if they are dying.


Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Bible prohibits ingesting blood and that Christians should therefore not accept blood transfusions or donate or store their own blood for transfusion.<sup id="cite_ref-0" class="reference"></sup> Watch Tower Society publications teach that the Witnesses' refusal of transfusions of whole blood or its four primary components—red cells, white cells, platelets and plasma—is a non-negotiable religious stand and that those who respect life as a gift from God do not try to sustain life by taking in blood,<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference"></sup><sup id="cite_ref-Guide_2-0" class="reference"></sup> even in an emergency.<sup id="cite_ref-3" class="reference"></sup> Witnesses are told that the use of fractions such as albumin, immunoglobulins and hemophiliac preparations are "not absolutely prohibited" and a matter of personal choice.<sup id="cite_ref-Guide_2-1" class="reference"></sup> Although accepted by the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses, a minority does not endorse this doctrine.<sup id="cite_ref-4" class="reference"></sup>
The doctrine was introduced in 1945, and has undergone some changes since then. It is one of the doctrines for which Jehovah's Witnesses are most well known.<sup id="cite_ref-5" class="reference"></sup> Members of the religion who voluntarily accept a transfusion are regarded as having disassociated themselves from the religion by abandoning its doctrines<sup id="cite_ref-6" class="reference"></sup><sup id="cite_ref-BMJOM_7-0" class="reference"></sup><sup id="cite_ref-8" class="reference"></sup> and are subsequently shunned by members of the organization.<sup id="cite_ref-JWpress2000_9-0" class="reference"></sup>
The Watch Tower Society has established Hospital Information Services to provide education and facilitate bloodless surgery. This service also maintains Hospital Liaison Committees, whose function is to provide support to adherents...





Based on various biblical texts, such as Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 17:10, and Acts 15:29, they believe:

  • Blood is sacred to God,<sup id="cite_ref-10" class="reference"></sup> who equates it with life.<sup id="cite_ref-11" class="reference"></sup><sup id="cite_ref-Awake06_12-0" class="reference"></sup> It is reserved for only one special use, the atonement for sins.<sup id="cite_ref-WT97_13-0" class="reference"></sup> When a Christian abstains from blood, they are in effect expressing faith that only the shed blood of Jesus Christ can truly redeem them and save their life<sup id="cite_ref-Awake06_12-1" class="reference">.</sup>
  • Blood must not be eaten or transfused,<sup id="cite_ref-14" class="reference"></sup><sup id="cite_ref-JWpress2000_9-1" class="reference"></sup> even in the case of a medical emergency.<sup id="cite_ref-15" class="reference"></sup>
  • Blood leaving the body of a human or animal must be disposed of,<sup id="cite_ref-WT97_13-1" class="reference"></sup> except for autologous blood transfusions considered part of a “current therapyâ€.<sup id="cite_ref-autogenerated2_16-0" class="reference"></sup><sup id="cite_ref-WT2000-10-15p30-31_17-0" class="reference"></sup>
  • An individual who unrepentantly accepts a blood transfusions is deemed to have disassociated themself from the religion by abandoning its doctrines and is subsequently subject to organized shunning by other members.<sup id="cite_ref-JWpress2000_9-2" class="reference"></sup><sup id="cite_ref-BMJOM_7-1" class="reference"></sup>
 
Certain medical procedures involving blood are specifically prohibited by Jehovah's Witnesses' blood doctrine. This includes the use of red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets and blood plasma. Other fractions derived from blood are not prohibited. Watch Tower publications state that some products derived from one of the four primary components may be so similar to the function of the whole component and carry on such a life-sustaining role in the body that "most Christians would find them objectionable". For procedures where there is no specific doctrinal prohibition, individuals are to obtain details from medical personnel and then make a personal decision.
Prohibited procedures

The following medical procedures are prohibited:

  • Transfusion of allogeneic whole blood, or of its constituents of red cells, white cells, platelets or plasma.
  • Transfusions of pre-operative self-donated (autologous) blood.
Permitted procedures and products

The following procedures and products are not prohibited, and are left to the decision of individual members:

  • Blood donation strictly for purpose of further fractionation of red cells, white cells, platelets or plasma for either allogeneic or autologous transfusion.
  • Transfusions of autologous blood part of a "current therapy".
  • Hemodilution, a modified technique in which equipment is arranged in a circuit that is constantly linked to the patient's circulatory system.
  • Intraoperative blood salvage (autologous) or cell-saver scavenging, a method of picking up blood that has spilled from the circulatory system into an open wound, cleaning and re-infusing it.
  • Heart-Lung Machine, a method in which blood is diverted to an artificial heart-lung machine and directed back into the patient.
  • Dialysis, wherein blood circulates through a machine, is filtered and cleaned, then returned to the patient.
  • Epidural Blood Patch, consisting of a small amount of the patient's blood injected into the membrane surrounding the spinal cord.
  • Plasmapheresis, wherein blood is withdrawn and filtered, having the plasma removed and substituted, and returned to the patient.
  • Labeling or Tagging, blood is withdrawn, mixed with medicine, and then returned to the patient by transfusion.
  • Platelet Gel, blood is withdrawn and put into a solution rich in platelets and white blood cells.
  • Fractions from red blood cells:
    • Hemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying component of red blood cells.
  • Fractions from white blood cells:
  • Fractions from platelets:
  • Fractions from blood plasma:
  • Erythropoietin (EPO).
  • PolyHeme, a blood substitute solution of chemically modified human hemoglobin.
  • Hemopure, a blood substitute solution of chemically stabilized bovine hemoglobin derived from cow's blood.

 
lewis i knew a kid that died from not recieving a liver transplant as the parents wouldnt let it.

and yes i didnt give blood for yrs, not that i can now.
 
Jason you can't give blood ?

niether me nor my wife,

no male or woman who has sex with a man that has sex with a man since 1977 can donate blood for the rest of their life per fda.

i did for a while and i'm clean but the fda includes oral sex as well.
 
The thing with JW's is their enormous printing press business that churns out "The Watch Tower" publications at a volume and expense that is out of this world! Like cults such as LDS, they have a hierarchy of members who only learn certain doctrine as they move up the ladder - one of the major give-aways of a cult. I really consider these two groups like cousins. They have a lot of shared descent from biblical Christianity and were founded around the same historical period.

They are intensely studied in their altered version of scripture. I'll give them that. But unfortunately, in rejecting the Divinity of Jesus, (among many other Truths) they are abusing this flawed knowledge. Amazing how a few words they stick in for their own purpose, leaves an entirely different meaning in the text. It would be sad if it wasn't so dangerous. Good thing our God is in control! :thumbsup
 
I can say one thing about them even though they are wrong, and that is they are dedicated. They get out there and try to win people on a constant basis, Most regular Christians don't even do that.
 
Part 3


  1. Christ is God, the Creator of all things according to Colossians 1:15-17.
    JW’s refer to this passage to support their teaching that Christ was created by Jehovah (for example, Let God Be True, p.35). This is based primarily on the words, “the firstborn of all creation,†in verse 15. However, if this verse was teaching that Jesus Christ is the first created being made by God, the word “first-created†would have been used of Christ, not the word “firstborn.†These are two different words in the Greek, with two different meanings. “First-created†is protoktistos, and “firstborn†is prototokos. Colossians 1:15 does not use the protoktistos, “first-created.†Instead it uses prototokos, which means an heir, a begotten one, the first in rank. The teaching of Colossians 1:15 is that Christ is first in rank above all creation; He is the Heir of all things. He is prior to all creation and superior over it.
    The JW’s New World Translation adds the word “other†four times in Colossians 1:15-17, so that the passage states that Christ created “all other things,†everything except Himself. However, there is no basis for adding “other.†It certainly does not occur in the Greek manuscripts. The translators of the New World Translation admit this by putting “other†in brackets. This “translation†attempts to comply with the assumption that firstborn means first-created. But, as shown, this is not the meaning of firstborn, and therefore it is also wrong to add the word “other.†There is no verse in the entire Bible that states that Christ was created by Jehovah!
  2. Christ claimed to be equal with God in John 10:30.
    JW’s believe that this verse, “I and the Father are one,†means that Christ was one with God the Father in purpose and not in nature and essence. However, if that was all Christ was saying, why did the Jews want to stone Him? They themselves thought His purpose was the same as God’s. Verse 33 of John 10 explains that they wanted to stone Him because of blasphemy, because He claimed to be God!
The deity of Christ is the central point of the Scriptures. It clearly teaches that Christ is God. The teachings of the Jehovah’s Witness' concerning Jesus Christ clearly contradict the teachings of the Bible. Passages such as Philippians 2:5-11 tell us that Jesus Christ, who existed as God, took the bodily form of a humble servant so that He could die on the cross in our place. “Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (kurios), to the glory of God the Father.â€
How do Jehovah's Witnesses' teachings about Christ compare with Scriptures? - ChristianAnswers.Net


Friends! Here is a document that no Jehovah's Witness believes.
"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Make of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father of all ages; Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father, by Whom all things were made; Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary, and became man; He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried, and arose on the third day, according to the scriptures; And ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father; And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of Whose kingdom there is no end. "And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord true and life-giving, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; Who spake by the prophets. And in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I confess one baptism for the remission of sins. I wait for the resurrection of the dead, And the life of the age to come. Amen." OLD ORTHODOX PRAYER BOOK,2nd ed. Copyright 2001,
Russian Orthodox Church of the Nativity of Christ (Old Rite), page 110.
 
jesus1.gif
Part 1 Many people are confused about the Jehovah’s Witnesses. People have written to ask if they are Christians or do they worship a different God? The following article may help to answer this important questions.
Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christians have some things in common. For example, they share common concerns about religious apostasy, and they teach against Evolution.
Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christians do, however, differ on many important doctrines. In an attempt to keep this article to a reasonable length, let us not concentrate on ALL the differences. Rather…
…LET US INVESTIGATE THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE, THE PERSON OF JESUS CHRIST.

JW’s believe that Jesus Christ was a perfect man, and that He is a person distinct from God the Father. However, they also teach that before His earthly life, Jesus was a spirit creature, Michael the archangel, who was created by God and became the Messiah at His baptism. According to Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jesus is a mighty one, although not almighty as Jehovah God is. According to John 1:1 in their Bible, The New World Translation, Christ is “a god,” but not “the God.” They teach that Jesus “was and is and always will be beneath Jehovah” and that “Christ and God are not coequal”.
Does the Bible confirm their beliefs, or does it teach the orthodox Christian concept that Christ is God? This is an extremely important question. Consider the following points:

  1. The Christ of the New Testament is the Jehovah of the Old Testament.

These verses demonstrate that the name “Jehovah” is used for both God the Father and of God the Son. Although they are distinct persons they are each called “Jehovah” because they each possess deity.
How do Jehovah's Witnesses' teachings about Christ compare with Scriptures? - ChristianAnswers.Net

Though some feel that "the Christ of the New Testament is the Jehovah of the Old Testament", this is not the case. The use of Isaiah 6:1-10 to John 12:31-42 to say that Jesus is Jehovah does not "hold water." For example, at Exodus 24:12, it says: "And Jehovah said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee the tables of stone, and the law and the commandment, which I have written, that thou mayest teach them."(American Standard Version) Further, at verse 16, it says: "And the glory of Jehovah abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud." Was Jehovah personally there, talking to Moses ? No. How can this be known ?

Over fifteen hundred years later, when Stephen was before the Sanhedrin, he told this body religious leaders: "You stubborn people with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are always opposing the Holy Spirit, just as your ancestors used to do."(Acts 7:51, American Standard Version) Stephen then said to these obstinate body of religious leaders that "you who received the Law given through angels, and yet have not obeyed it."(Acts 7:53, Weymouth's New Testament)

In addition, at Exodus 3:2, it says that "the angel of Jehovah appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush". However, just a few verses later, it says that "when Jehovah saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses."(Ex 3:4, American Standard Version) Thus, Jehovah was not there in person, but was represented by an angel or angels, who spoke as if Jehovah God himself was there on Mt. Sinai. Moses was instructed concerning Aaron: "And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass, that he shall be to thee a mouth, and thou shalt be to him as God."(Ex 4:16, American Standard Version)

At Genesis 32:28, it says that the one speaking to Jacob, said that he had "contended with God". Jacob however, did not grapple with God, but with an angel, for Hosea 12:4 says that Jacob "he wrestled with the Angel, and prevailed."(Darby's Bible) Hence, angels and men have spoken for Jehovah, as his representative, even saying that they are Jehovah, when, in fact, are only angels.

Concerning Exodus 34:14, it says: "for thou shalt worship no other god: for Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:"(American Standard Version) What does Hebrews 1:6 say about Jesus ? According to the King James Bible, it reads: "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him." Did it really say that the angels worshiped Jesus ? The Greek word used at Hebrews 1:6 for "worship" is proskyneo and means "to fawn or crouch to. i. e. prostrate oneself in homage."(Strong's # G4352 )

What does homage mean ? According to Microsoft Encarta Reference Library 2005, it means "a show of reverence and respect toward somebody." Though the Greek word proskyneo can mean "worship", it also can mean to show "reverence and respect toward somebody". Young's Bible reads "bow before him" at Hebrews 1:6. Scholars derive the Greek term proskyneo from the verb ky·ne´o, “kiss.” The usage of the word in the Christian Greek Scriptures, commonly called the New Testament (as also in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, commonly called the Old Testament) shows that persons to whose actions the term is applied prostrated themselves or bowed down.

When Satan requested that Jesus do just "an act of worship (Greek proskyneo) to me", Jesus responded, quoting Deuteronomy 5:9 annd 10:20: "Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship (Greek proskyneo) , and it is to him alone you must render sacred service ("sacred service", Greek la·treu´seis ).’” (Matthew 4:9 10) Hence, only Jehovah God is to be worshipped and rendered "sacred service " to and not Jesus. Thus the New World Translation reads "obeisance" at Hebrews 1:6 and not "worship."

Even Jesus worships Jehovah God, for he told the Samaritan woman: "You worship One of whom you know nothing. We worship One whom we know (Jesus included himself in worshipping the Father); for salvation comes from the Jews. But a time is coming - nay, has already come - when the true worshippers will worship the Father ( and not Jesus) with true spiritual worship; for indeed the Father desires such worshippers."(John 4:22, 23, Weymouth's New Testament)

And concerning Isaiah 44:6, it says: "Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God."(American Standard Version) Though Jesus calls himself "the First and the Last" at Revelation 1:17, only Jehovah God speaks of himself as "the Alpha and Omega" at Revelation 1:8 and later at Revelation 22:13. This is further seen at Revelation 21:6, with verses 5 and 7 saying that the one speaking is seen sitting "on the throne" and to the one "conquering...I shall be his God."

When the apostle John fell down to worship the angel that delivered the message at Revelation 22, the angel said: "Don't do that! I am a fellow servant with you, your brothers the prophets, and those who keep the words in this book. Worship God!"(Rev 22:9, International Standard Version) The angel never mentioned to worship Jesus, but only God. This harmonizes with Jesus words that it is "Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service."
 
Was Jehovah personally there, talking to Moses ? No. How can this be known ?

Yes! The Bible says:

Exodus 33
17And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.

18And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.


19And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.


20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.


21And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:


22And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:


23
And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Exodus 34

1And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

2And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.


3And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.


4And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.


5
And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.

6And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,


7Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.


8And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped
.

In addition, at Exodus 3:2, it says that "the angel of Jehovah appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush". However, just a few verses later, it says that "when Jehovah saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses."(Ex 3:4, American Standard Version) Thus, Jehovah was not there in person, but was represented by an angel or angels, who spoke as if Jehovah God himself was there on Mt. Sinai. Moses was instructed concerning Aaron: "And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass, that he shall be to thee a mouth, and thou shalt be to him as God."(Ex 4:16, American Standard Version)
There is absolutely no substantial Biblical proof for this argument. God was very much there. Exodus 3:4 explicitly states "And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see," and Exodus 3:7 "And the LORD said," and Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses" and Exodus 3:15 "And God said moreover unto Moses,".

At Genesis 32:28, it says that the one speaking to Jacob, said that he had "contended with God". Jacob however, did not grapple with God, but with an angel, for Hosea 12:4 says that Jacob "he wrestled with the Angel, and prevailed."(Darby's Bible) Hence, angels and men have spoken for Jehovah, as his representative, even saying that they are Jehovah, when, in fact, are only angels.
Angels proclaiming themselves to be God? Oh dear, is this what the JW's are teaching these days?

Genesis 32
29And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

As far as Hosea 12:4--why are you cutting the verse short? Does it not suit your purposes?

Hosea 12:4 (NASB)
Yes, he wrestled with the angel and prevailed; He wept and sought His favor. He found Him at Bethel And there He spoke with us,

(ESV)
He strove with the angel and prevailed; he wept and sought his favor. He met God at Bethel, and there God spoke with us—

Concerning Exodus 34:14, it says: "for thou shalt worship no other god: for Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:"(American Standard Version) What does Hebrews 1:6 say about Jesus ? According to the King James Bible, it reads: "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him." Did it really say that the angels worshiped Jesus ? The Greek word used at Hebrews 1:6 for "worship" is proskyneo and means "to fawn or crouch to. i. e. prostrate oneself in homage."(Strong's # G4352 )
Prostrating oneself is not an act of worship?

Genesis 17
1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

What does homage mean ? According to Microsoft Encarta Reference Library 2005, it means "a show of reverence and respect toward somebody." Though the Greek word proskyneo can mean "worship", it also can mean to show "reverence and respect toward somebody". Young's Bible reads "bow before him" at Hebrews 1:6. Scholars derive the Greek term proskyneo from the verb ky·ne´o, “kiss.” The usage of the word in the Christian Greek Scriptures, commonly called the New Testament (as also in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, commonly called the Old Testament) shows that persons to whose actions the term is applied prostrated themselves or bowed down.
You concede that it can mean worship, and in proper context absolutely means worship, but this verse is an inconvenience to JW doctrine, so therefore, it's not allowed to mean worship because the JW doctrine loses it's footing. Right?

When Satan requested that Jesus do just "an act of worship (Greek proskyneo) to me", Jesus responded, quoting Deuteronomy 5:9 annd 10:20: "Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship (Greek proskyneo) , and it is to him alone you must render sacred service ("sacred service", Greek la·treu´seis ).’” (Matthew 4:9 10) Hence, only Jehovah God is to be worshipped and rendered "sacred service " to and not Jesus. Thus the New World Translation reads "obeisance" at Hebrews 1:6 and not "worship."
The New World Translation is a bastardized version of Scripture that has been altered and changed, and not allowed to be quoted here on this forum, per the ToS.

It's funny though, that in this argument the word proskyneo means worship because it's convenient for the JW, but it does not mean worship when it's inconvenient for the JW. :screwloose

Even Jesus worships Jehovah God, for he told the Samaritan woman: "You worship One of whom you know nothing. We worship One whom we know (Jesus included himself in worshipping the Father); for salvation comes from the Jews. But a time is coming - nay, has already come - when the true worshippers will worship the Father ( and not Jesus) with true spiritual worship; for indeed the Father desires such worshippers."(John 4:22, 23, Weymouth's New Testament)
Jesus accepted worship:

John 20:28-29
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed
are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

And concerning Isaiah 44:6, it says: "Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God."(American Standard Version) Though Jesus calls himself "the First and the Last" at Revelation 1:17, only Jehovah God speaks of himself as "the Alpha and Omega" at Revelation 1:8 and later at Revelation 22:13. This is further seen at Revelation 21:6, with verses 5 and 7 saying that the one speaking is seen sitting "on the throne" and to the one "conquering...I shall be his God."
This is just weak, are you even trying anymore? :lol

When the apostle John fell down to worship the angel that delivered the message at Revelation 22, the angel said: "Don't do that! I am a fellow servant with you, your brothers the prophets, and those who keep the words in this book. Worship God!"(Rev 22:9, International Standard Version) The angel never mentioned to worship Jesus, but only God. This harmonizes with Jesus words that it is "Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service."
Yet, when Christ was worshiped as God, He never said "don't do that" as the angels in Scripture do. This argument just falls to pieces, especially considering the fact that earlier you said God receives worship through angels by manifesting Himself through angels. :screwloose
 
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The thing with JW's is their enormous printing press business that churns out "The Watch Tower" publications at a volume and expense that is out of this world! Like cults such as LDS, they have a hierarchy of members who only learn certain doctrine as they move up the ladder - one of the major give-aways of a cult. I really consider these two groups like cousins. They have a lot of shared descent from biblical Christianity and were founded around the same historical period.

They are intensely studied in their altered version of scripture. I'll give them that. But unfortunately, in rejecting the Divinity of Jesus, (among many other Truths) they are abusing this flawed knowledge. Amazing how a few words they stick in for their own purpose, leaves an entirely different meaning in the text. It would be sad if it wasn't so dangerous. Good thing our God is in control! :thumbsup

This definitely bears repeating:

The thing with JW's is their enormous printing press business that churns out "The Watch Tower" publications at a volume and expense that is out of this world! Like cults such as LDS, they have a hierarchy of members who only learn certain doctrine as they move up the ladder - one of the major give-aways of a cult. I really consider these two groups like cousins. They have a lot of shared descent from biblical Christianity and were founded around the same historical period.
 
Genesis 1:1-2

NWT: In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters.
NIV: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
NASB: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
KJV: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

DISCUSSION: The Jehovah’s Witnesses reject the doctrine of the Trinity. They believe in a non-triune God named Jehovah, they believe Jesus is “a god” subordinate to Jehovah, and they reject the notion that the Holy Spirit is a person of the Trinity. They believe that the Holy Spirit is an extension of Jehovah – an “active force” He sends out. The Hebrew words here are ruwach elohim, which are accurately translated as “Spirit of God.” Ruwach can be translated as “wind” also, but when joined in context with God, it is a reference to the Spirit of God (as Strong’s Hebrew Lexicon states, “Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son”). This is the first example of the NWT forcing its doctrinal bias into the text of Scripture.

See more examples in this article:
jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Jehovah%20Witnesses/new_world_translation.htm
 
and dont forget somehow by divine relavation that 144,000 are those that they claim to be the prophets, yet some how time and time again failed to predict his return.

and this they said of 1914, and 2000.
 
Aren't JWs the ones who think that Heaven has a Maximum Occupancy number (handed out by the divine fire marshal of course :lol)? And then at some point in the last few decades the number of their members exceeded Heaven's occupancy number so they magically uped the occupancy number to a new one.
 
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