How do pacifist Christians reconcile pacifism with with Jesus's commendation of the Roman centurion?

[jmt356]

How do pacifist Christians respond to the following arguments in support of militant Christianity:
The New Testament contains various accounts in which John the Baptist, Jesus and Peter encounter Roman soldiers. Had military service been incompatible with being a member of Kingdom of God, surely John the Baptist, Jesus and Peter would have made some note of this or they would have counseled the soldiers to abandon the military. Rather, we read the following:

1. John the Baptist Did Not Counsel Roman Soldiers to Give Up Their Arms
John the Baptist was a forerunner of Jesus, preaching that “kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Mat 3:2). His message was a prophecy of the kingdom of heaven to come. When soldiers came to him and asked him what they must do, he replied, “Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely and be content with your wages” (Luke 3:14). Never did he say that they should depart from the military. The fact that he said they should be content with their wages implies that they should accept their wages and that the institution of military service is not incompatible with the Kingdom of Heaven.

2. Jesus Praised the Centurion for His Faith
When Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion pleaded with Jesus to heal his servant. He said that he was not worthy of Jesus’ coming under his roof, but only asked that Jesus “speak a word, and my servant will be healed” (Mat 8:5-8). Jesus marveled at his faith, and declared that he had “not found such great faith, not even in Israel” (Mat 8:10). After he praised the centurion, He did not command him to give up his arms or resign from the military or that the military life was one of sin. Rather, he tells him, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you” (Mat 8:13).
While Jesus does not point out to the centurion that his military service was sin, Jesus does not hesitate to point out sin in other instances where such sin needed to be corrected:
- Jesus condemned the scribes and Pharisees as “hypocrites” who are like “whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness” (Mat 23:27);
- He drove out those who bought and sold at the temple and “overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves” (Mat 21:12), making “a whip of cords” and driving them “all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen” (John 2:15);
- Jesus said to the woman caught in the act of adultery (John 8:1-4) to “go and sin no more” (John 8:11);
- When the Samarian asked Jesus to give him the water so that she would no longer thirst (John 4:15), Jesus asked her to call her husband (John 4:16). Indeed, Jesus was pointing out an area in the woman’s life that was not right with God: she had five husbands and the one she was with at that time was not her husband (John 4:18).

3. God Used the Centurion Cornelius to Graft Gentiles into the Kingdom of God
We can look to the centurion Cornelius as another example of a soldier who was praised by God. He is highly regarded as a “devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always” (Acts 10:2), so much so that an angel of God came to him and declared that his prayers and alms “have come up for a memorial before God” (Acts 10:3-4). Cornelius is not only described as “a just man, one who fears God and has a good reputation among all the nation of the Jews,” but also as one who was “divinely instructed by a holy angel” (Acts 10:22), and who was used to bring the Gospel of Christ to the Gentiles (Acts 10:35-48).
The fact that of all of the Gentiles, God used a soldier to graft Gentiles into the Kingdom of God gives an imprimatur to the institution of the military.

 

[Butch5]

How do pacifist Christians respond to the following arguments in support of militant Christianity:
The New Testament contains various accounts in which John the Baptist, Jesus and Peter encounter Roman soldiers. Had military service been incompatible with being a member of Kingdom of God, surely John the Baptist, Jesus and Peter would have made some note of this or they would have counseled the soldiers to abandon the military. Rather, we read the following:

1. John the Baptist Did Not Counsel Roman Soldiers to Give Up Their Arms
John the Baptist was a forerunner of Jesus, preaching that “kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Mat 3:2). His message was a prophecy of the kingdom of heaven to come. When soldiers came to him and asked him what they must do, he replied, “Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely and be content with your wages” (Luke 3:14). Never did he say that they should depart from the military. The fact that he said they should be content with their wages implies that they should accept their wages and that the institution of military service is not incompatible with the Kingdom of Heaven.

2. Jesus Praised the Centurion for His Faith
When Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion pleaded with Jesus to heal his servant. He said that he was not worthy of Jesus’ coming under his roof, but only asked that Jesus “speak a word, and my servant will be healed” (Mat 8:5-8). Jesus marveled at his faith, and declared that he had “not found such great faith, not even in Israel” (Mat 8:10). After he praised the centurion, He did not command him to give up his arms or resign from the military or that the military life was one of sin. Rather, he tells him, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you” (Mat 8:13).
While Jesus does not point out to the centurion that his military service was sin, Jesus does not hesitate to point out sin in other instances where such sin needed to be corrected:
- Jesus condemned the scribes and Pharisees as “hypocrites” who are like “whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness” (Mat 23:27);
- He drove out those who bought and sold at the temple and “overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves” (Mat 21:12), making “a whip of cords” and driving them “all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen” (John 2:15);
- Jesus said to the woman caught in the act of adultery (John 8:1-4) to “go and sin no more” (John 8:11);
- When the Samarian asked Jesus to give him the water so that she would no longer thirst (John 4:15), Jesus asked her to call her husband (John 4:16). Indeed, Jesus was pointing out an area in the woman’s life that was not right with God: she had five husbands and the one she was with at that time was not her husband (John 4:18).

3. God Used the Centurion Cornelius to Graft Gentiles into the Kingdom of God
We can look to the centurion Cornelius as another example of a soldier who was praised by God. He is highly regarded as a “devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always” (Acts 10:2), so much so that an angel of God came to him and declared that his prayers and alms “have come up for a memorial before God” (Acts 10:3-4). Cornelius is not only described as “a just man, one who fears God and has a good reputation among all the nation of the Jews,” but also as one who was “divinely instructed by a holy angel” (Acts 10:22), and who was used to bring the Gospel of Christ to the Gentiles (Acts 10:35-48).
The fact that of all of the Gentiles, God used a soldier to graft Gentiles into the Kingdom of God gives an imprimatur to the institution of the military.

Hi jmt356,

What you've presented is drawn from silence. To say, Jesus didn't say, or John didn't say, doesn't acknowledge an allowance of the use of force. All we have is what the writers chose to record, what they thought pertinent to the subject they were addressing. It's possible that there was much more said or that nothing else was said, we don't know. If we're looking to see what is allowed we should look at what they did say, not try to allow something from what they didn't say.

John the Baptist was the last prophet of the old system, he was preaching before Christ came on the scene to give the new teaching. Jesus talking with the centurion and Peter talking with Cornelius are dealing with the issue of the faith of these men. Your argument is that it's not recorded in Scripture that they were told to leave the military, It's also not recorded that they were told it's OK to stay in the military. That argument goes both ways. Also, as I understand it, if one was in the Roman military they could not get out. If that was the case then none of they would have mentioned it.

However, we do have the teachings of Jesus and the apostles. Jesus said to love your enemies, Paul said, our weapons are not carnal, avenge not yourselves, etc.

We also have the historical evidence. For the first 300 years of Christianity Christians wouldn't use violence. There are plenty of quotes from the early Christians stating how Christians don't use violence, here are a few.

The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 3
Tertullian
Nay, He puts His interdict on every sort of man-killing by that one
summary precept, “Thou shalt not kill.”

The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 5
Cyprian 250 AD.
Consider the roads blocked up by robbers, the seas beset with pirates, wars
scattered all over the earth with the bloody horror of camps. The whole
world is wet with mutual blood; and murder, which in the case of an
individual is admitted to be a crime, is called a virtue when it is
committed wholesale. Impunity is claimed for the wicked deeds, not
on the plea that they are guiltless, but because the cruelty is
perpetrated on a grand scale.

The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 2
Clement of Alexandria

Above all, Christians are not allowed to correct with violence the
delinquencies of sins. For it is not those that abstain from wickedness
from compulsion, but those that abstain from choice, that God crowns

This was the position of the church until the time of Constantine when the church and state merged. I've written a paper on this topic if you'd like a Pacifist view from the Scriptures and early church history. The paper is, "Should Christians Use Violence?"

 

[WIP]

Please note the scriptural support for your opposing arguments. These discussions must remain scriptural based and not opinion based.

 

[Butch5]

Please note the scriptural support for your opposing arguments. These discussions must remain scriptural based and not opinion based.

Sorry, I overlooked that in trying to make my point.

The Scripture passages for post 2 are.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (Mat 5:1 KJV)

2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. {think: or, reckon}
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) {through God: or, to God}
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; (2Co 10:2-5 KJV)

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Obadiah 1:15 "For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head."

Mathew 26:51-52
"51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."

Revelation 13:10 "10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints"

People believe that everything in life is random. Its actually not. There are rules to this game. Signing up to the military could be likened to signing on the dotted line "I will kill". Therefore you kill a man and you get killed. You maim someone and you get maimed.

The idea that Jesus Christ belongs to the republican party is a falsehood. Jesus gave himself willingly for ALL people. In him we are all ONE.

The "republican" idea that Jesus condoned guns is also a falsehood. There is no drama in Jesus Christ as evidenced in - Luke 9:52-56 "52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

Wrath belongs to Jehovah, truth, peace, and love belong to the trinity.

 

[jmt356]

Thank you all for your responses. It seems that militant Christianity is based largely on Old Testament verses commanding violence that do not appear to me to be applicable to Christians today and the absence of any condemnation on the part of John the Baptist, Jesus and Peter when they encountered Roman soldiers. The New Testament verses that speak directly to the question of force, in contrast, seem to indicate that the use of force and violence is off limits for Christians:
- Sermon on the Mount: “Do not resist an evil person”; “turn the other cheek”; “love your enemy” and “pray for those who persecute you” (Mat 5:38-44)
- Be “harmless as doves” (Mat 10:16)
- “All who take the sword perish by the sword” (Mat 26:52)
- Jesus rebukes the disciples for suggesting punishing the Samaritans for not receiving Him (Luke 9:51)
- Paul’s Letters: “Though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh” (2Co 10:3); “We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers” (Eph 6:12)
- Revelation: “He who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword” (Rev 13:10)

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Romans 12:18;
"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone".

 

[Nick]

Romans 12:18;
"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone".

I think this is it. This would (to me) seem to get the spirit of the NT - promoting peace but not explicitly disallowing violence.

Let's remember Ecclesiastes 3:8b:
a time for war, and a time for peace.
(ESV)

 

[Butch5]

Thank you all for your responses. It seems that militant Christianity is based largely on Old Testament verses commanding violence that do not appear to me to be applicable to Christians today and the absence of any condemnation on the part of John the Baptist, Jesus and Peter when they encountered Roman soldiers. The New Testament verses that speak directly to the question of force, in contrast, seem to indicate that the use of force and violence is off limits for Christians:
- Sermon on the Mount: “Do not resist an evil person”; “turn the other cheek”; “love your enemy” and “pray for those who persecute you” (Mat 5:38-44)
- Be “harmless as doves” (Mat 10:16)
- “All who take the sword perish by the sword” (Mat 26:52)
- Jesus rebukes the disciples for suggesting punishing the Samaritans for not receiving Him (Luke 9:51)
- Paul’s Letters: “Though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh” (2Co 10:3); “We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers” (Eph 6:12)
- Revelation: “He who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword” (Rev 13:10)

I agree, this is the conclusion I have come to also. In addition we do have the testimony of the early church. They wouldn't allow the use of violence for any reason.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I think this is it. This would (to me) seem to get the spirit of the NT - promoting peace but not explicitly disallowing violence.

Let's remember Ecclesiastes 3:8b:
a time for war, and a time for peace.
(ESV)

I think as for the Centurian, we get saved and then we grow in our relationship with Jesus through the Holy Spirit.
If it is peace that we want, then we will in time change our ways and continue to become more peaceful.
This is God's will that we live in peace.
This is why there were no rebellions in the early Church.
I believe it is modern western Christianity that has changed this attitude.

 

[chessman]

The New Testament verses that speak directly to the question of force, in contrast, seem to indicate that the use of force and violence is off limits for Christians:

Romans 13:3-4 (LEB) For rulers are not a cause of terror for a good deed, but for bad conduct. So do you want not to be afraid of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from it, for it is God’s servant to you for what is good. But if you do what is bad, be afraid, because it does not bear the sword to no purpose. For it is God’s servant, the one who avenges for punishment on the one who does what is bad.​

Governments/rulers (who, by the way, ideally should include a higher precentage of true Christians in America) are inplaced by God specifically for the purpose of bearing swords against those who perform bad deeds (murder, rape, theft, etc.).

We should be thanking God for our military and police forces' use of force (national, state and local) against bad deeds. And thank God they carry some big and powerful swords.

And thank God our Government still provides rules that sanction our use, even an individual, to protect themselves or others against certain bad deeds as well. To stand pasively by as someone is about to be raped/murdered is quite literally against God's rules (NT or old). The use of force by Christians against certain bad deeds is NOT "off limits by Christians" in the NT. It doesn't even seem to be off limits.

As for the NT verses that seem to contrast the use of NT force that you posted:

1. Turning the other cheek (Matt 5) is about not returning an insult with an insult. It has almost nothing to do with the use of force or a sword against the bad deeds of rape, murder, etc.

2.

Matthew 10:16-17, 19-20 (LEB) “Behold, I am sending you out like sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. But beware of people, because they will hand you over to councils, and they will flog you in their synagogues. But whenever they hand you over, do not be anxious how to speak or what you should say, for what you should say will be given to you at that hour. For you are not the ones who are speaking, but the Spirit of your Father who is speaking through you.
​

I.e. The Inocent Dove will (and did) speak thru them that acted like sheep to their Shepherd. Again, this has nothing to do with prohibiting force agsinst bad force.

2.

Matthew 26:51 (LEB) And behold, one of those with Jesus extended his hand and drew his sword, and striking the slave of the high priest, cut off his ear.
​

[why do you think Peter had/carried his sword to begin with? The reason Jesus rebuked Peter for the sword strike there was that Peter was getting in the way of God's plan of redemption there in Jerusalem, should he had killed the Temple soldiers. And he was fighting the Government solders that God had put there IAW His Plan. Plus, you didn't quote the whole verse.]

Matthew 26:52 (LEB) Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place! For all who take up the sword will die by the sword.
​

Notice also, Jesus didn't say throw it away and never use his sword again. He said put it BACK into it's place. There is a time and a place for using the NT sword evidently. Just as there was a time/place for Jesus to go again to Jerusalam.

3.

Luke 9:51, 53 (LEB) Now it happened that when the days were approaching for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem. ...And they did not welcome him because he was determined to go to Jerusalem.
​

The towns folk weren't doing any of the bad deeds that God has sanctioned the use of force against. That doesn't mean there aren't some bad deeds that God has sanctioned the use of NT force against.

4, 5, 6 (2Co 10:3), (Eph 6:12), (Rev 13:10)

None of these verses say or even imply: "that the use of force and violence is off limits for Christians".

 

[jmt356]

Are there any pacifist responses to Chessman, and specifically, to Chessman's argument with respect to Jesus's rebuke of Peter for cutting off the servant’s ear? Jesus does not tell Peter to discard his sword. Rather, He tells him to “Put your sword in its place” (Mat 26:52). Had the sword always been off limits for Christians, it is unlikely that Peter would have been carrying the sword to begin with and, if he were carrying it, it is likely that Jesus would have told Peter to discard it rather than put it back “in its place” after Peter had used it. Jesus’s command indicates that there is a time and place for violence, but the arrest scene at Gethsemane was not one of them.

 

[WIP]

The arrest at Gethsemane was part of God's plan and Jesus knew this. Jesus also told pilot at one point, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here." (John 18:36 NKJV) I personally find it difficult to think Jesus' servants would fight by turning the other cheek.

 

[Mike S]

Many members of the Religious Society of Friends - Quakers - are true pacifists, refusing to use violence for any reason, including self-defense. They base their beliefs on what they believe is a general theme throughout the Bible of peace, non-violence, and love. More specifically, they hold a belief that there is "that of God" within all of us: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." - Genesis 1-27. An attack against any human is literally an attack against God.

Not every Quaker holds non-violence as a core belief, but most within the Friends General Conference, which is the variety of Quakerism most commonly found in the New England/New York/Philadelphia region of the U.S., are pacifist. My wife, her parents, and our daughter are Quakers and all are strongly committed pacifists.

 

[Butch5]

Are there any pacifist responses to Chessman, and specifically, to Chessman's argument with respect to Jesus's rebuke of Peter for cutting off the servant’s ear? Jesus does not tell Peter to discard his sword. Rather, He tells him to “Put your sword in its place” (Mat 26:52). Had the sword always been off limits for Christians, it is unlikely that Peter would have been carrying the sword to begin with and, if he were carrying it, it is likely that Jesus would have told Peter to discard it rather than put it back “in its place” after Peter had used it. Jesus’s command indicates that there is a time and place for violence, but the arrest scene at Gethsemane was not one of them.

I can address the points shortly when I have more time.

 

[Butch5]

(Post removed. There have been many warings issued to follow the A&T Guidelines, in particular "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding." Obadiah.)

 

[Choir Loft]

(Post removed. There have been many warings issued to follow the A&T Guidelines, in particular "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding." Vague references to entire chapters or to passages that don't speak to the subject at hand do not fulfill this requirement. Obadiah.)

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

(Post removed. Response to deleted post. Obadiah)

 

[Butch5]

(Post removed. Response to deleted post. Obadiah)

 

[4afaithfulone]

How do pacifist Christians respond to the following arguments in support of militant Christianity:
The New Testament contains various accounts in which John the Baptist, Jesus and Peter encounter Roman soldiers. Had military service been incompatible with being a member of Kingdom of God, surely John the Baptist, Jesus and Peter would have made some note of this or they would have counseled the soldiers to abandon the military. Rather, we read the following:

1. John the Baptist Did Not Counsel Roman Soldiers to Give Up Their Arms
John the Baptist was a forerunner of Jesus, preaching that “kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Mat 3:2). His message was a prophecy of the kingdom of heaven to come. When soldiers came to him and asked him what they must do, he replied, “Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely and be content with your wages” (Luke 3:14). Never did he say that they should depart from the military. The fact that he said they should be content with their wages implies that they should accept their wages and that the institution of military service is not incompatible with the Kingdom of Heaven.

2. Jesus Praised the Centurion for His Faith
When Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion pleaded with Jesus to heal his servant. He said that he was not worthy of Jesus’ coming under his roof, but only asked that Jesus “speak a word, and my servant will be healed” (Mat 8:5-8). Jesus marveled at his faith, and declared that he had “not found such great faith, not even in Israel” (Mat 8:10). After he praised the centurion, He did not command him to give up his arms or resign from the military or that the military life was one of sin. Rather, he tells him, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you” (Mat 8:13).
While Jesus does not point out to the centurion that his military service was sin, Jesus does not hesitate to point out sin in other instances where such sin needed to be corrected:
- Jesus condemned the scribes and Pharisees as “hypocrites” who are like “whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness” (Mat 23:27);
- He drove out those who bought and sold at the temple and “overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves” (Mat 21:12), making “a whip of cords” and driving them “all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen” (John 2:15);
- Jesus said to the woman caught in the act of adultery (John 8:1-4) to “go and sin no more” (John 8:11);
- When the Samarian asked Jesus to give him the water so that she would no longer thirst (John 4:15), Jesus asked her to call her husband (John 4:16). Indeed, Jesus was pointing out an area in the woman’s life that was not right with God: she had five husbands and the one she was with at that time was not her husband (John 4:18).

3. God Used the Centurion Cornelius to Graft Gentiles into the Kingdom of God
We can look to the centurion Cornelius as another example of a soldier who was praised by God. He is highly regarded as a “devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always” (Acts 10:2), so much so that an angel of God came to him and declared that his prayers and alms “have come up for a memorial before God” (Acts 10:3-4). Cornelius is not only described as “a just man, one who fears God and has a good reputation among all the nation of the Jews,” but also as one who was “divinely instructed by a holy angel” (Acts 10:22), and who was used to bring the Gospel of Christ to the Gentiles (Acts 10:35-48).
The fact that of all of the Gentiles, God used a soldier to graft Gentiles into the Kingdom of God gives an imprimatur to the institution of the military.

Jesus also took in sinners, murders of every kind, but he did not expect them to remain that way after they began to grow in the Word and learn that it is wrong to live a life of sin if you ever expect to have peace in your life.
Do you see the misery of these men who come back from war? Is there any winners in this? Evil only begets more evil. Everyone believes that they have good reason to fight.
Yet the real reality is that we are not to be of this world, our allegiance is to our God in heaven, not our carnal nation standing shoulder to shoulder with the ungodly, for not everyone in the military worships the Creator so what does that mean they are? Anti-Christ is what! for they have not accepted the Word to live by.
We are to be spiritual soldiers and our sWord is the Word of God to cast out those unclean spirits in men so they DON'T want to kill any longer, not physically kill them before they can be saved!
In war, when Christians fight for their carnal nation, they also fight their spiritual brother in Christ who also is in error and is fighting toe to toe with unbelievers against their supposed brother in Christ. Now what is wrong with this picture?
To carnal man, those who go to war for their country are considered honorable, brave, but spiritual enlightened ones should know that killing is like Cain did and is of the devil. Jesus said, all who take up the sword, shall die by the sword, that if you take a life, your life shall be taken by man as well
Matt 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
KJV
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
KJV
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
KJV
I do not say that they are no longer saved, but they will not inherit the kingdom of God, but may return in the great white throne judgment when all the books are opened, as part of the saved nations and live according to their rewards.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. KJV
You may think that this is those who did not receive Christ, but you will notice that it does not say the "Unbelieving"nor fearful, nor abominable in that list.
Here are those who totally rejected the gift of life to live on the new heaven and earth to come.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
KJV