How do we know we are Born Again?

[Imagican]

There is also an accessory evidence for salvation that John tells us about: "We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death." (1 John 3:14)

This is often an immediate realization on our part, as well as the renewed spirit within us.

So loving the bretheren proves that you are saved. This is the true agape love.

Now THIS shows TRUE understanding as offered BY GOD. I don't know how shark LIVES, but he HAS offered TRUTH in UNDERSTANDING.

Amen my friend,

MEC

 

[francisdesales]

Roman Catholic teachings believe that one must be baptized as an infant in order to gain eternal life, but that teaching is not found anywhere in the scriptures.

Solo,

That is not correct. It is NORMATIVE. We would more correctly say that a person WOULD have been baptized, would have accepted entrance into the visible Church, had they known about it. But a person in the deep dark Amazon in 1200 AD was not doomed to eternal damnation because they never heard of baptism!

The Spirit blows where He will. The earliest Church Fathers even saw the work of the Logos among the ancient Greek philosophers - calling them "proto-Christians". They recognized that Baptism was not an absolute requirement for salvation. Thus, you are incorrect to say that one MUST be baptized to be saved - God is not bound by the sacraments...

Regards

 

[John the Baptist]

Now THIS shows TRUE understanding as offered BY GOD. I don't know how shark LIVES, but he HAS offered TRUTH in UNDERSTANDING.

Amen my friend,

MEC

*****
Mec, I need this defined from the Master's Word alone! Who is [my Brother]? Not who is my (Luke 10:36) neighbor. Surely Love is to be towards both, yet there is a required difference as seen in 1 John 5:16-17!
---John

 

[Solo]

Solo,

That is not correct. It is NORMATIVE. We would more correctly say that a person WOULD have been baptized, would have accepted entrance into the visible Church, had they known about it. But a person in the deep dark Amazon in 1200 AD was not doomed to eternal damnation because they never heard of baptism!

The Spirit blows where He will. The earliest Church Fathers even saw the work of the Logos among the ancient Greek philosophers - calling them "proto-Christians". They recognized that Baptism was not an absolute requirement for salvation. Thus, you are incorrect to say that one MUST be baptized to be saved - God is not bound by the sacraments...

Regards

When you show me your opinions in scripture it will become truth; until then it is just your opinion. The visible Body of Christ is the Spiritual Church that the Scriptures speak of, not a man-made institution of control.

 

[mutzrein]

What was that about John?

Mutz, :wink: I had been around here for quite some time, and I had blocked out an old ex/moderator so as for not caring to Titus 3:9-11 with him. (and it seems that he is eternally blocked out to boot, even if I click on the un/block ) So the question of Born Again eternal censor, to my pals??

Yet, it is annoying, when ever he posts up a reply to where I reply to the same thread, this message that I posted up 'here' comes up in my email box, when I try to post some reply to others on the thread's remark?

So to post up again on the thread, I need to go in the back door to the index to do so.

---John

Ah - I see . . . the Lord works in mysterious ways

 

[John the Baptist]

Back to being Born Again. Knowing if we are Born Again +!

John here: In Matthew 25 we see some interesting Truths!

Matt.25
[1] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Here is the comparison of Virgin Truths, unless some think that heavens ones were not having Virgin Truths? Such as not needing to be Born Again because they were Born Perfect in the first place! Yet, this is a Parable that Christ stated that He would explain parables to His disciples! This parable is done so in Matthew 10:5-6 on. (if one has passed Hebrews 6:1-3 & 1 John 4:6?? Matthew 10:23 is where we are about at in todays setting.

[2] And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

In heaven we see that these were ALL Born Again! They were all having Virgin Doctrines, they were all Saved by the Everlasting Gospel of Revelation 14:6. The only thing lacking, was their TESTING for Eternal Maturity, or if they were Save to Save?? They were ALL Sleeping, and caught off guard by the one who was to be the ring leader of Mature Rebellion, Lucifer. (future anti/Christ) The Prophesied REPEAT of Christ's Word is seen in Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15. Israel's 'House' which this Parable includes, & Laodicea's Spued out Fold, or House are also included. (forget the ones of Revelation 17:5 for now, this IS NOT THEM!) Christ was telling His Own that Your House Is left unto you Desolate in Matthew 23:38, & again repeated in Revelation 3:9 for Laodicea!

[3] They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

Both have Lamps & the OIL of the Holy Spirit! PERFECT at that point of Maturity! Again, these are Born Again! Romans 8:1's TEST IN CHRIST!

[4] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

What is lacking, is the EXTRA OIL of Christ's Righteousness! He tell's us that LOVE has got to be FERVENT & IN FIRST PLACE WITH HIM in Revelation 3:16-17! This comes ONLY by putting Christ FIRST in everyday life. Even in heaven we see Matthew 4:4 as an test! Christs WORD. He is the Everlasting Manna to live by, or to die by if maturely rejecting. (Genesis 4:7 for an later, but early example)

[5] While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

[6] And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

They are even seen in heaven as [all] caught sleeping as satans mature rebellion highlighted! From sin into its complete Mature Rebellion. 1 John 5:16-17 James 1:15 Lucifer's stuff had been causing the Love for Christ to be questioned, there was oil in ALL of their Lamps, yet, there was not the extra Oil needed for the TESTING!
Virgin Israel are as these one in Maturity. As angels were foolish & lost, so is Israel of old, and Virgin Israel of today! (Except for the Prophesied Revelation 12:17 Remnant ones)

[7] Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

[8] And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

The trial of testing came! (SHAKING!) A Fervent Love of Christ forms a Mature Character that cannot be passed on to others. Maturing takes a length of time! One Sin alone is not the test for a character being MATURED either way in Eternity as being Safe to save, or to be in Total REBELLION! See Nahum 1:9 & Obadiah 1:16 This is seen from day one with Adam & Eve. Perfect, yet being TESTED for them to develope Required MATURITY! (forbidden tree right there in the midst of the Garden of Eden... with the 'Midnight Cry' of WARNING!)[/b]

[9] But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

[10] And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Well, we saw a Midnight Cry from the outside here in Matthew 25 while all were sleeping. This test was to Go OUT to meet Christ, (1 Peter 4:17 again) the message was given by one who was not in yoked membership, and we see Christ on the Outside as in earth's Joshua 7:12 last part of documentation. And we also see John the Baptist added to Christ with this message given from the 'outside' of Israels yoked membership! John even had 'converts' with him. And we know who took over Israel of old when Christ was executed! (church needed State!)

This Virgin Parable answers who it is that is Born Again! And who it is that can fall from Grace & repeat Hebrews 6:6 again! It surely has nothing to do with being O.S.A.S., yet it does have everything to do with being Born Again as a REQUIRED starting point in the first place! John 3:3

---John

PS: I think that I will deleate this, and move it over to Matthew 4:4's FOOD thread in a couple days.

 

[francisdesales]

When you show me your opinions in scripture it will become truth; until then it is just your opinion. The visible Body of Christ is the Spiritual Church that the Scriptures speak of, not a man-made institution of control.

Well, you are going to have to show me THAT concept from Scriptures... The Scriptures themselves do not call themselves the sole source of truth, now, do they? Nor does the Scripture ANYWHERE say that the teaching Church is subject to the Bible...

The Visible Body of Christ is a GOD-MADE institution that IS visible. How else would people know the Word of God? From a visible body who wrote a visible book, practiced a visible way of life, worshipped in a visible way, and taught an objective Gospel. Were the teachers of the Church visible or not? Did believers know where to point to when someone asked "Where is Christ's Church"? Did they point to some esoteric teaching or a book or an institution with people? Christ gave a mandate to the apostles to preach and teach, not pass out tracts and let everyone figure it out through the "Holy Spirit"! Thus, they were VISIBLE. All this talk about an invisible church to the detriment of the visible is ridiculous and illogical. It is throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Your "invisible church" concept basically says that your ideas and thoughts are from the Holy Spirit. Sorry, I am not convinced that every word you utter is from the Holy Spirit, nor are your interpretations of Scriptures always from the Holy Spirit. Basically, you are making yourself the official interpreter of God's Word. Our latest exchanges show you err, so you are not the speaking receptible for God. So what do you do when you run into another Protestant who claims the same thing but believes something else about baptism? Are there now two truths that completely contradict? Two "Holy Spirits"? In the end, you can never know if you are really correct, since you are not infallible.

Fortunately, we CAN turn to a visible Body that has been given the Keys - power to bind and loosen - and protected by God from the Gates of Hell. Whatever is bound on earth is bound in heaven. Is this not enough evidence that what the visible Church says is bound in heaven - infallible? I have given you Scriptures - Matthew 16:18-20.

Another is Galatians 1:9-11. Paul KNOWS the Gospel that he preaches is infallible, not because of his knowledge, but because he is part of the Church of Christ, the VISIBLE Church, an apostle protected from error.

Another is Acts 15. The VISIBLE Church decides - AGAINST ALL SCRIPTURES - that circumcision was no longer required. If this isn't proof of the infallible actions of the Visible Church, (IN CONTRADICTION TO THE OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES!!!) I don't know what is...

I wonder what you would have said in 47 AD when the Church made this decision - without any Scriptural warrant to back it up with! So much for Sola Scriptura - disproved by the Bible itself...

To those who have ears...

Regards

 

[Solo]

Well, you are going to have to show me THAT concept from Scriptures... The Scriptures themselves do not call themselves the sole source of truth, now, do they? Nor does the Scripture ANYWHERE say that the teaching Church is subject to the Bible...

The Visible Body of Christ is a GOD-MADE institution that IS visible. How else would people know the Word of God? From a visible body who wrote a visible book, practiced a visible way of life, worshipped in a visible way, and taught an objective Gospel. Were the teachers of the Church visible or not? Did believers know where to point to when someone asked "Where is Christ's Church"? Did they point to some esoteric teaching or a book or an institution with people? Christ gave a mandate to the apostles to preach and teach, not pass out tracts and let everyone figure it out through the "Holy Spirit"! Thus, they were VISIBLE. All this talk about an invisible church to the detriment of the visible is ridiculous and illogical. It is throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Your "invisible church" concept basically says that your ideas and thoughts are from the Holy Spirit. Sorry, I am not convinced that every word you utter is from the Holy Spirit, nor are your interpretations of Scriptures always from the Holy Spirit. Basically, you are making yourself the official interpreter of God's Word. Our latest exchanges show you err, so you are not the speaking receptible for God. So what do you do when you run into another Protestant who claims the same thing but believes something else about baptism? Are there now two truths that completely contradict? Two "Holy Spirits"? In the end, you can never know if you are really correct, since you are not infallible.

Fortunately, we CAN turn to a visible Body that has been given the Keys - power to bind and loosen - and protected by God from the Gates of Hell. Whatever is bound on earth is bound in heaven. Is this not enough evidence that what the visible Church says is bound in heaven - infallible? I have given you Scriptures - Matthew 16:18-20.

Another is Galatians 1:9-11. Paul KNOWS the Gospel that he preaches is infallible, not because of his knowledge, but because he is part of the Church of Christ, the VISIBLE Church, an apostle protected from error.

Another is Acts 15. The VISIBLE Church decides - AGAINST ALL SCRIPTURES - that circumcision was no longer required. If this isn't proof of the infallible actions of the Visible Church, (IN CONTRADICTION TO THE OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES!!!) I don't know what is...

I wonder what you would have said in 47 AD when the Church made this decision - without any Scriptural warrant to back it up with! So much for Sola Scriptura - disproved by the Bible itself...

To those who have ears...

Regards

You really ought to have a deeper love and respect of God's Word than you do; you would be taken out of the lies of Catholicism is you would.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16

Jesus said, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26).


The scriptures teach that believers do not need any man teach us, but the anointing that we receive when we are born again, He that abides in us. Many Roman Catholics are taught that they are in the ONE TRUE CHURCH and they will be fine as long as they participate in the seven sacraments of the CHURCH, but they are never taught the truth of becoming a child of God. How sad.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1 John 2:27

 

[francisdesales]

You really ought to have a deeper love and respect of God's Word than you do; you would be taken out of the lies of Catholicism is you would.

When did you get the idea that I do not love the Word of God? Is it not apparent that I am familiar with the Bible? However, I do not share your idea that it is the sole source of our faith. Nor does the Bible itself...

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16

Sorry, but that does not say anything about being the sole source of our faith. It says the Scriptures - the Old Testament in particular - is USEFUL for correction, etc. How did you manage to twist the beautiful Word of God to say "sole source of faith" from "useful for reproof"???

And what about this, also from the Word of God?

"And he [God] gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" Eph 4:11-13

Have you ever read this Scripture? If so, how could you miss the implication to your Sola Scriptura? Right here, we have definite proof that there is SOMETHING ELSE that God has given to the Christian for "perfecting man onto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ". Thus, Sola Scriptura is a lie. The Bible gives ANOTHER source of faith - the teachers and pastors of the Church...

This one verse alone destroys Sola Scriptura.

Jesus said, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26).

Is not Jesus speaking to the 12 Apostles, the first bishops of the Church? He does not tell this to every Tom, Dick and Harry, but only His inner circle.

The scriptures teach that believers do not need any man teach us, but the anointing that we receive when we are born again, He that abides in us. Many Roman Catholics are taught that they are in the ONE TRUE CHURCH and they will be fine as long as they participate in the seven sacraments of the CHURCH, but they are never taught the truth of becoming a child of God. How sad.

We are children of God as a result of our Baptism when we are "born from above". I am not sure where you get your information, but merely being present at the sacraments is not salvific in of itself, nor does the Church teach this... What is sad is your sadness for something that is not even the Catholic Church.

The reason why John tells his community that they have no need of other teachers is because they had already been taught the Gospel, they didn't need teachers that were giving false teachings to blow into town and try to win converts and perform altar calls - they had ALREADY received the Spirit through their baptisms and abided in the Risen Lord through their participation in the Eucharist. The proof, as John details throughout his first epistle, is their obedience of the Law of Love. They KNEW they possessed the Spirit because their faith was working in love. They didn't need some circus coming into town teaching them that "Jesus wasn't of the flesh" or "Jesus wasn't from God" - the Docetist heresy that John was fighting at the time. This is no different than any other pastor telling his flock to beware of teachings that tickle the ear...

Regards

 

[Solo]

You have been deceived and until you pray to God for forgiveness and ask him for the Holy Spirit, you will continue in the error of your false hope. Sorry, but I have been where you are, and then I was born again, not at an infant baptism, but at hearing the true word of God.

 

[John the Baptist]

We are children of God as a result of our Baptism when we are "born from above". I am not sure where you get your information, but merely being present at the sacraments is not salvific in of itself, nor does the Church teach this... What is sad is your sadness for something that is not even the Catholic Church.

The reason why John tells his community that they have no need of other teachers is because they had already been taught the Gospel, they didn't need teachers that were giving false teachings to blow into town and try to win converts and perform altar calls - they had ALREADY received the Spirit through their baptisms and abided in the Risen Lord through their participation in the Eucharist. The proof, as John details throughout his first epistle, is their obedience of the Law of Love. They KNEW they possessed the Spirit because their faith was working in love. They didn't need some circus coming into town teaching them that "Jesus wasn't of the flesh" or "Jesus wasn't from God" - the Docetist heresy that John was fighting at the time. This is no different than any other pastor telling his flock to beware of teachings that tickle the ear...

Regards


*****

John here: 'Tickle the ear..'??

Come on, get real! The Word of God does not tickle the ear, your 'fold' is the Abomination of The Earth! Revelation 17:1-5 From the documented slaughtering of millions, to the open cesspool of documented pig/slop as seen in daily print along with Your Pope Peter's Inspired Words in 2 Peter 2:19-22!! :roll:

And all of this in the name of Christianity!

"Pope John Paul 2 sought common ground with believers in voodoo.. suggesting they would not betray their traditional faith by converting to Christianity." Los Angeles Times This truly is a satanic brain storm! :robot:

And yet the truth being told, is that the Voodoo satanic stuff is no worse than that of an Blasphemous pope and ALL of his partakers! Revelation 18:4.
"The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God." The Roman Catholic dictionary by Lucius Farraris Vol. VI. pgs. 438-442

Anyone buying into that, has already been prepared for the 'tickling of his ear'