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How do you know for sure jesus did the things he did and really existed?

What I do know for sure and has indisputable proof- the legacy Jesus left is still with us today. Because of the examples set before us common people dig into their life savings and donate it to people they have never or will never meet, for no other reason than to improve their life's conditions. Christians seem prone to this for some reason.


I see people staying up at night volunteering time clothing feeding and caring for people down on their luck or lonely and homeless in the street. Jesus causes something to stir in people. The church I go to wanted more volunteers to partner with other churches and achieve this more than is happening now. The cops love it crime rates go down because of this.

The local bowling club did not stir that up in me- they just serve beer lol.
 
Perhaps you misunderstand me. Your words do not "determine" truth... rather, truth is a property of language. In this case, your first statement would be true, and the second statement would be false. However, if there were no sentient beings, there would be no language at all, and thus nothing to which to ascribe the properties of truth or falsehood.

Your logic is like Zen. Hence I would venture to presume this question might make your point? If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it does it make a sound? The point of that question is also the point you are making I take it, albeit you are more definitive by answering the question with No. This is a subjective view that does not factor in the fact that their are sentient beings and they don't all agree what the Truth is. So I respectfully ask again do you believe in a Truth, as in that which we attain knowledge and destroy ignorance by?


Yes, I understand that. On the other hand, I've lost count of how many times someone has "done unto me" what they thought they would have wanted, and instead caused me great pain. I would be very surprised if you could not say the same, unless perhaps you are very young, or you're a hermit, or something.

I'm definitely something without a doubt even if I don't make a sound. If what was done to you was for your best interests I'd say it is what you would want done to you even though at the moment it might not seem like it. If however that which was done to you was calculated by a perverse intellect I get your point. My point however is not to imply any such truth would mean anything profitable to a perverse mind. I am not meaning to say a twisted mind will not twist things. I only wish to point out that true love cares about others and how our actions affect them. Do you agree with that?


No. My sense of compassion and empathy comes from a completely different source, specifically, a metaphorical acceptance of Schopenhauer's metaphysic. (Which, being atheistic, cannot have anything to do with deities.)

I see. So you do believe in something true that precedes us so that we may aquire knowledge of and that would be Schopenhauers metaphysic. I would respectfully submit that Schopenhauer's metaphysic is your god for all intensive purposes.


We in skeptical circles like to call this "having the magic decoder ring". If we point out that Christ said you cannot be his disciple unless you hate your family and even your own life, for example, Christians who are uncomfortable with that concept (which would probably be most of them) always try to explain it away

It should be called the magic obscurer ring.



While I will readily admit that there wasn't much chance of my becoming a Christian in any event,

I respectfully submit you do not know exactly what a Christ is nor why he exists, nor therefore do you know what a real Christian is, hence you say "there wasn't much chance of my becoming a Christian in any event". I am at risk of appearing to talk down to you by making that statement so I beseech you to understand that it is no one's fault that some people know things that others don't know. For this I apply the Truth that battles such a divisive spirit by saying, a wise man receives instruction with joy but a fool despises correction.
 
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sigh

if any man hateth not his mother or father he cant be disciple? are you serious. that is greek translation issue that not properly translated. jesus in the same books rebuked the pharisees for not honoring their mother and father as commanded in the torah!

hateth not is really from the words in koine greek that means to love less. hebrew does the same thing. jacob i have loved but esau i have hated(same koine greek word in the nt) in genesis the hebrew word means preferred less.

sheesh at least ask and then if you hear me or other say this then go to the originial tounges to see.

and christians often misquote this its a fool has said theres no god.its really stated in the original hebrew a fool has said to God , NO!
 
I've not witnessed anyone accepting Christ through proof by data or scientific conclusion. The heart of man doesn't play by the laws of any science I know. To confine the soul to the laws of observance reduces a man to nothing more than a machine. And I've not witnessed a machine accepting Christ either.

I wasn't looking for God or Christ while alone the night of August 19th, 1998 on the back porch of a place in Clinton, Utah. I was there and so was He. Can I prove that? Nope. Would that be important to anyone else anyway? Not really.
But it sure left a mark on me let me tell ya!!! :D

I've always been interested in science and mechanically inclined... had 5 sciences in my senior year, got a degree in electronics, furthered that through professional experience and ongoing courses depending on company needs. But did any of that help in my belief? Not at all. Nada. When it comes to matters of the heart the science of man is meaningless.
 
"The deaths of the apostles is actually strong evidence that there is a power of darkness working in men to stop the Truth from being preached. It wasn't coincidence they all died for preaching the Gospel. There certainly is solid evidence that all men have an absolute by which they must reason and this is their image of god."

And all the folks who were "Witnesses" to the Book of Mormon were also killed for their testimony.

So much for "martyrs".
So were so called christians killing christians and Nazi's killing Jews and cowboys killing native americans. So how is this proof there is not darkness in men?
 
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