ChristineES said:
This is what I believe:
When a man is born-again into God's family there is nothing that can take him away from God's family. If my earthly father were to say to me "Christine, you are no longer my daughter" Is he not my father anymore? Yes, he is still my father. If I say to my mother, "you are not my mother anymore" Isn't she still my mother? Yes, she is still my mother. So would it not be the same in God's family?
Of course there are people asking, "what if person chooses to leave God?" A saved person can and have left God, but I don't think God has left that person!! Even while this person is sinning, or whatever, he/she will have God looking out for him although the person will not know it. I certainly hope that eventually that that said person will someday return to God.
What about works? I think a Christian should do works, but it is not the works that saves him, but the Grace of God, and the gift that Jesus gave us when He died for our sins. I believe that a Christian wants to do works!!
That is what I have gathered from reading my bible, and what I believe in.
Thank you for listening.
I do agree that we God's children and he will call us back. But it is not true that he is always with us. The father was not with the prodigal when he was in the pig sty hoping for the husks of corn that they ate. He did not go out and search for the son but the son had to return to him on his own free will in humility. Yes, I love my children and they will always be my children but that does not mean that I would not kick them out of my house for severe infractions if they chose not to reform. Of course if they choose to return at some point later that would be fine as long as they had a humble and contrite heart which is what God asks of us. The man who has choosen a sinful life does not have this and so is separated from God.
So do you think God was bluffing when he said the following?
1 Cor 15
[1] Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand,
[2] by which you are saved, if you hold it fast -- unless you believed in vain.
They stand in the Gospel, yet he makes their salvation conditional in that they must hold to the Gospel, otherwise they HAVE believed in vain.
Gal 5
[4] You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
I raised this question before and your view fails to address it. Can one be severed from Christ or have fallen from grace and still be saved?
2 Tim 2
[12] if we endure, we shall also reign with him;
if we deny him, he also will deny us;
[13] if we are faithless, he remains faithful --
for he cannot deny himself.
WE must remain faithfull. But if we do deny him he will deny us. See below.
Matt 10
[32] So every one who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven;
[33] but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
Now Peter denied our lord 3 times. Do you suppose the Lord was bluffing or is it more likely that Peter was in a fallen state and had to be restored?
There is also the servant in Luke 12 who when the master returns he finds that servant doing well and the servant is rewarded. Yet the story says that if the master delays and "THAT SERVANT" (i.e. the same one who was doing righlty and rewarded) begins beating the other servants, he "will be treated as an UNBELIEVER". So it is apparant that the servant fell from grace.
There are many other verses that support this as well.
From God’s perspective he knows who will be saved. The grace that he will give and who will respond to it so in that sense, the sense of God’s fornowledge and grace one can not lose his salvation who is going to be saved. However from our perspective the only way we know if we are one of these is if we persevere in grace. No it is not automatic that we receive grace and persevere in it. Irresistable grace is a doctrine which denies free will.