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Growth How does free will affect my faith?

Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.


This passage indicates that we do in fact possess free will. One can't anything willfully if they're being manipulated.

I'm not sure how it affects my faith. I know I'm responsible for everything I take in and put out. Other than that, I don't know.
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People have a will, that's for sure and sometimes it is very strong. However, I don't think that it is free from influence in most cases. We have all kinds of outside influences that affect our will. Our will is influenced by the Holy Spirit to accept or reject Him. This, however, is one of the things I do not understand about the human condition. How much of what we do is because of outside influence and how much of it is actually our "free will."
 
Sandy I agree many are influenced by social surroundings like a Bull being lead by the ring in it's nose. That Bull can be fight against the lead rope or can come to full submission of it. Take Deuteronomy Chapter 27, 28. God gives us choices to make (freewill), but also there are consequences of our choices that can curse us or bless us. We either submit to a worldly will (self) or submit to Gods will (His righteousness found in us).
 
I think our will is free to the extant that we can't blame influences,surroundings or satan for anything. Other than a slave environment or prison, we are free to turn from or embrace influences. We won't be able to blame the influence if we make the wrong choice.
 
Sandy Zalecki said:
People have a will, that's for sure and sometimes it is very strong. However, I don't think that it is free from influence in most cases. We have all kinds of outside influences that affect our will. Our will is influenced by the Holy Spirit to accept or reject Him. This, however, is one of the things I do not understand about the human condition. How much of what we do is because of outside influence and how much of it is actually our "free will."
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Yeah that's my problem, too. Our will seems the product of outside influences or mental conditions that were imprinted into us long ago and without our consent or without our awareness. In other words, like everything in universe our will is a product of cause and effect. Thus I have no idea how our will can be free at all.
That thought has kept me from becoming christian for several months, but in the end I decided to postpone that question and follow Christ despite that unresolved contradiction.
 
We truly do have free will if it means that God gives humans the opportunity to make choices that affect our destiny.
Unbelievers could come to Jesus if they wanted to but they choose not to.It is the Holy Spirit that works in a person to give them a new nature.Salvation is God's work.
Our motives,desires and actions are voluntary,we are held responsible for them.
 
Hi Kathi and everyone! You've made an interesting inquiry Sis which I believe is very significant to our faith. Faith can be seen as something we use or as something that uses us. I prefer the latter because it maintains credit to God's "preeminence" (Col 1:18).

Concerning free will or autonomy, this is the primary God-given attribute that not only distinguishes man's relation to God, but also incurs accountability (as you've indicated), which is His intent so that we can independently choose for self to accept God's appealing to us through His Son--our Lord Jesus.

With Adam and Eve, God did not give them the opportunity to choose anything concerning His will because He "commanded them" (Gen 2:16), but He gave them autonomy and knew He would eventually ask people to make choices for their selves, to choose life or death (Deut 30:19).

The relation between faith in the believer and the believer's autonomy is that in our choosing Him we welcome Him to cause us to choose His will concerning everything. Thus, we do not bring faith along, but it brings us along; for as faith is derived from the Spirit of God (Gal 5:22), and that we are "saved through faith" (Eph 2:8), it is also known that it is Jesus who maintains our faith from "failing" (Luke 22:32).

Thank you for your input, and God's blessings to your Family!
 
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Kathi said:
How does free will affect your faith?Do human beings truly have a free will?
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I Kathi. This is an area of theology we often debate in the Christian family. Some believe we come to Christ on our own free will, and others believe God chooses or elects those who come to Christ.

There are many scriptures we can use to debate both ideas and there is a ton of detail we can discuss back and forth on the matter, but I would like to answer you for the sole purpose of assisting in your own answer, and also to simplify, for you, the position that we are elect in Christ by God; since that is my theological position, and I know many struggle with it. So, know that this is not an argument, and I will do my best not to make this a one sided issue, and instead just bring some clarity to it.

Our choice or Gods choice...or both? This is often where we find ourselves in our faith; asking this very question. Lets just look at us for a moment and put God to the side for just a bit as we examine mankind.

Clearly we have free will. We have the ability to make choices and we do every day, but the choices we make follow our own desire. This is easy to prove. Let's say you enjoy Coke. You get up, go to the frig to get a cold coke to drink and you see a Coke and a Pepsi. which do you choose? If you desire the Coke, but you chose the Pepsi then your will is not free. So, Man does have free will, but inorder that his will is free, he must chose what he desires. otherwise his will is not free.

So you asked how does my free will effect my faith? Before I knew Christ my free will was limited to the things I desired, sin. After meeting Christ by free will was set aside for the will of God, This means I recognized my free will was to desire sin and that God will for me was that I might have life and a relationship with Him.

Before I knew Christ I had no faith in Christ. My faith was in me and my desires. But after I meet Christ my desire was not based on my free will, but on Gods will for me.And so I then had faith in Him, not me.

In Gods will I desire God. In my will I desire sin, but because I'm in Gods will, I do not desire sin, but God, but my will still alone only desires sin.

Sound confusing? Paul had the same dilemma, and he puts it this way; Romans 7:15-24, 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?

The problem many Christians often face is one of the idea of the fall of man, salvation and the Christian life. Paul understood that he was a sinner by nature; a fallen man. he also understood that his free will was to do what he desired, and that his free will was based on his own sinful self nature. Can you answer Paul's question? "Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?" The answer is Christ. ...Paul goes on to answer his own question; 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

We often like to think we are choosing God and being saved and doing all the right things to choose God and be saved, by our free will to do so, but Paul never looked at it that way, and we'd do well to examine it deeply. Thankfully Paul did and wrote a lot about it for us.
 
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Proverbs 3:7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and turn away from evil.

Are you feeling healthy and well? I recommend you read my thread about trigger points, it made a miracle to me. It can even change my blood circulation to take very cold/(warm?) bath's.
Good be with you!
 
Nice explanation Danus. But my question is do we truly have a free will even in our sin? We rarely make decisions without being influenced by something. We are influenced by advertising, television shows, the internet, other people, what we have been taught in school, our prejudices, etc. When is our free will truly free or is it influenced by some outside force? Our salvation is influenced by Christ and the Holy Spirit working in us. It isn't free will that helps us make the decision for Christ, it is an influenced will. We have a will, that is for sure, but when is it free from influence?
 
Sandy Zalecki said:
Nice explanation Danus. But my question is do we truly have a free will even in our sin? We rarely make decisions without being influenced by something. We are influenced by advertising, television shows, the internet, other people, what we have been taught in school, our prejudices, etc. When is our free will truly free or is it influenced by some outside force? Our salvation is influenced by Christ and the Holy Spirit working in us. It isn't free will that helps us make the decision for Christ, it is an influenced will. We have a will, that is for sure, but when is it free from influence?
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I would say our will is enslaved to sin. I guess that's the direct point of my answer.

I fully believe and understand Gods word to be this, that we are fully fallen to a sinful nature and are utterly helpless in our nature of sin to do anything to change. So, when I agree we have a free will, I see our free will as problem, not a solution.

Rather, I believe that God and God alone chooses us and In affect, uses His will for us, for His good purpose to save anyone.

Martin Luther wrote a book called; the bondage of the will. In it he says the same thing. There are many others who understand the same thing.

We run into many issues when discussing this topic. It can be painful and it leads us into many areas some don't want to go. But I see it as part of the doctrine of Gods grace. I see it as something beautiful and perfect. That God would love us so much that He would see a need for us, and that He would choose us knowing we are utterly helpless to freely choose Him.

Few can argue that the holly spirit quickens us, changes us, calls us. We are reborn. We are set apart, made new, regenerated. And In That newness we seek Christ more and more, and as we do we began to see more and more who we really are, or where.

I place no faith in my own will. It's worthless. But I place all faith in Gods will for me. .......forgive me. I'm typing on my iPad and it's not the easiest thing to do, but I will answer any questions anyone has of me regarding this. I love this topic more than any other. I can answer it better on my home computer.
 
Danus said:
I would say our will is enslaved to sin. I guess that's the direct point of my answer.

I fully believe and understand Gods word to be this, that we are fully fallen to a sinful nature and are utterly helpless in our nature of sin to do anything to change. So, when I agree we have a free will, I see our free will as problem, not a solution.

Rather, I believe that God and God alone chooses us and In affect, uses His will for us, for His good purpose to save anyone.

Martin Luther wrote a book called; the bondage of the will. In it he says the same thing. There are many others who understand the same thing.

We run into many issues when discussing this topic. It can be painful and it leads us into many areas some don't want to go. But I see it as part of the doctrine of Gods grace. I see it as something beautiful and perfect. That God would love us so much that He would see a need for us, and that He would choose us knowing we are utterly helpless to freely choose Him.

Few can argue that the holly spirit quickens us, changes us, calls us. We are reborn. We are set apart, made new, regenerated. And In That newness we seek Christ more and more, and as we do we began to see more and more who we really are, or where.

I place no faith in my own will. It's worthless. But I place all faith in Gods will for me. .......forgive me. I'm typing on my iPad and it's not the easiest thing to do, but I will answer any questions anyone has of me regarding this. I love this topic more than any other. I can answer it better on my home computer.
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That is an excellent explanation. You did great on your ipad.
 
I think Jesus said a few places He must be Lord for real, or we are not His (those who cry lord, lord, but He never knew, He throws out on judgment day.)
when Jesus is Lord, for real, every thought, imagination, action, decision is willingly and joyfully brought subject to Him. this is all through the New Testament from several perspectives.
He told someone, in the Gospels, I would have saved you(paraphrased), but you "would not" - i.e. they would not subject their life, their will, to Him.
Paul later writes to one of the churches, I forget which one, that they all were subject to (slaves of) sin until they were immersed in Yeshua (or saved), and that even though until that time (that they were saved) (maybe it was in colossians) ..
until they were saved, they, we (everyone) were not able to make decisions on our own - we were slaves of sin.

salvation is thus even more a miracle, as Jesus died for the sins of the world while we were all still dead in sin and trespasses. we were not good, and had nothing to offer for our lives. Jesus willingly chose to die for all , and to save as many as call on His Name(there's a lot more than english reveals in that - 'call on His Name').

this is all through the New Testament, so it is important to pray constantly and devour God's Word to see what He tells us.
do not trust men to tell what the Bible says - even if an apostle or an angel comes and declares it - test everything - go back to scripture (Old and New Testament) and see that it is in line with all of Scripture. this takes a gift from Yhwh, and a lot of time with HIM.

I 'should' have been asleep over an hour ago! tomorrow or next day, if you (anyone reading) haven't been able to find the information in part, some of the verses pertaining to all this, I'll gladly help look them up..... until then, good night! and pray pray pray always , ask God for His guidance to direct all of our steps. Shalom.
 
Kathi said:
How does free will affect your faith?Do human beings truly have a free will?
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Our will is there, it's just a little hard to do.

"the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." (Mt. 26:41) Jesus came to set us free from this infuriating condition. Romans 7 paints the same grim picture of wanting to do good but being unable to do it. While Romans 8 says we can be free from the law of sin and death if we walk in the Spirit. I would love to say I walk in the Spirit and am free from the flesh / spirit conflict, but I'm afraid I can't. I totally believe it's possible because the bible says so, but how to "walk in the Spirit" escapes me. Any thoughts? We should refuse to be trapped in Romans 7.
 
Kathi said:
How does free will affect your faith?Do human beings truly have a free will?
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If we don't we are pre-programmed robots and therefore are not responsible for sin...instead of the old adage' The Devil made me do it" we would then be able to say "God made me do it" in which case we would have excuse...but the Bible says we know God is but we do not honor Him as God and worship the creature above the Creator so we are without excuse....if everything, every thought, every action is predetermined and controlled then even being tempted is God's will for us (God Forbid)
 
This is a good question. I like Danus's answer also. :)

But, to put it in my own words, I think of it like this. We absolutely have free will. We certainly are influenced by outside unseen forces, and our own sinful nature. It's sort of like those tv shows I have seen where a boys dog gets lost, and is taken in by another family with kids, which become attached to the dog and love it...then the original owner finds where the dog is and ask for it back, but their kids are heartbroken at the thought of giving the dog up, and they wind up out in the yard with the dog in the middle, and the respective kids on either side of the dog calling to it, and whoever the dog goes to, gets to keep the dog. The dog (us) has a choice to make. Free will of course. Under constant bombardment of influence from both sides.

Of our own free will, we can choose to sin and reject God, or choose to go to God and give Him our life. Because of our fallen nature and sinful state (like Paul says), we can absolutely not do it on our own, for it is in our nature to make poor decisions, we will die without God. Thus in giving our life unto God, we surrender our own free back unto God and His will. This is the only way to be an overcomer and find life eternal. For there is a way which seems right unto man, but in the end leads to death.

Our own free will will lead us into sin for it is all we know because we have lost relationship with our Lord and it is essentially the only thing that we know is to please ourselves. It seems natural to us. So we must make the choice to trust God and let Him lead us where He will. Our will will be free from influence when we are transfigured into the new Heaven is what I believe, though perhaps not entirely because we do know from scripture that angels make decisions and learn also. We'll know for sure when that day comes. The important thing is to trust God, that He will make our paths straight and be good to us. He will be of course, for He is a loving and longsuffering God. The Bible is essentially a love story if you read it with the perspective of love.

We can not help but to make mistakes as Paul said, But! Praise the Lord that He is longsuffering and loves us enough to continue to forgive us. Consider King David whom God stated that was a man after His own heart. David killed a man for his wife, and yet, the Lord forgave him because...David got back up and repented and turned back to God. So while we will make mistakes, there is nothing that we can do to make the Lord stop loving us or forgiving us...as long as we turn back to Him always in faith.
 
Well put Edward! We barely have the capability to respond IF God speaks to us through His Spirit or we hear the word! I agree with what you posted, but just not with the understanding of Total Depravity which would be defined as absolute incapability...In Romans 10:14 Paul says, "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" And in Ephesians 1:13 he tells us "In who you also trusted after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in who also, after that you believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit " for "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17).

So clearly without initiation of this action on the part of God no one would not choose, even though a capability exists by which we could choose, faith not being a work (Romans 4:2-5)...in my case, as I was an agnostic at best, I heard and still did not trust (really sad testimony)...I willfully resisted the Holy Spirit's directives...but praise God He is the God of as many chances as it takes for now I have grown in Him nearly 30 years, still having far to go but so much loving Him who First loved me more and more each day. Once we are His child (a whole new order of creation in the last Adam) He will never leave us or forsake us. We are so blessed...
 
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