How Has the Recession Impacted You?

[Gazelle]

Rhea when you posted that there were more billionaires I thought OH, that's where the money went. However, when I went to check, here's what I found:

One in three billionaires is an American, down from nearly one out of two a decade ago. It has 10 more than last year but 56 fewer than its 2008 peak.

http://www.forbes.com/2011/03/08/world-billionaires-2011-intro.html

Regarding the recession for me personally, since I pulled from the stock market what funds I had, and didn't lose much, I stuffed it into CDs and savings, to be "safe" for a bit. As I realized that we are becoming a cash-less society, and felt that as the world moves that way, it would be nothing for a government to devalue "cash" to worthless. Knowing the USA had previously confiscated gold from citizens, I felt that could occur again. I thought about silver to fortify what savings I had, I heard 1965 USA Dimes or earlier... but couldn't move on it.
Then I felt God telling me to "invest" in food storage. I took a small percentage of my savings and stocked up on food--maybe 5 months' worth? I keep using and replenishing to keep it "fresh" because it's just me here....and to wait till expiration dates well, I'd have to eat a lot in a hurry! :D I do plan to add more soon. I feel that this is a good investment, for some products have gone up in price by 17% just since I began (not just food, but toiletries etc.) So to me, that is a good return on my investment. (Thank you Lord!)

I also increased my giving to the Lord's work. I learned that when I was poor. (I've been poor, rich, poor and now in good shape again..) When you don't have enough to go 'round, give it to God and He multiplies it for you. :yes I also have increased my giving to others...whether clothes or food or money...or actions like picking up someone waiting at a bus stop after passing the broken down bus, and taking them to the hub. Giving is something God blesses...no matter what it is you have to give, the attitude of trusting God is what's important.

I am daily reminded that Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. IMPOSSIBLE? Wow. If I can see the end, the end result, the goal, then I'm not trusting in God, for I can see the end result. If I wait until I can figure it out, that's not trusting God. If I go off on my own, I'm not trusting God. If I stay close to Him, He guides me and reassures me along the way, I don't have to visually see the end, but I know the end by faith. I think that pleases God.

I'm in the process of refinancing my mortgage (another item due to the recession, but also for a 3% savings on my already low rate). Someone emailed me with a rate that was higher than what I was contracting for, and I almost cancelled the appraiser due this morning. I realized that THAT wasn't trusting God, and I went ahead with the appraisal of the house $400.00. I'm trusting God to work out whatever was the issue, rate quote typo or what. . It's up to Him. :D

Sometimes when I cringe at an expense (that I can't seem to get around not paying) I tell the Lord, well God, if this is what you want me to spend YOUR money on...ok. It helps me remember it is all HIS money. There is no recession with God. There is no financial crisis with God. He has always owned "the cattle on a thousand hills" and can manifest out of nothing whatever it is I need. "I am the Lord thy God, I change not." "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever."

It's taken daily --hourly-- or more often talking with "Papa", my heavenly Father. I talk to Him like I would my earthly Father, only He loves me so much more and wants to bless me so much more. Just like my earthly father enjoyed "being" dad and helping me, God the Father enjoys it when we ask and trust Him with all of it including the BIG deals.

I had learned that it isn't WHAT I go through, but HOW I go through it. It's rough going until I reach my limit and let God take over...I've learned to let go a lot quicker than I used to!

I know I posted a bit ...and not to show how God blesses me...but to encourage others who are having a tougher time, that God knows and cares and will do something about your situation. I trust He will bless you soon.

 

[Pebbles]

I hope this isn't OT... but regarding the recession, and the monies that have been going to help the suffering...
Good question. We have far fewer millionaires than we did 3 years ago. Plus, the poorest populations have higher (by 16% did I read?) unemployment. So, who got the money?

Ok that's about all I know on this. lol

What happened was the ultra-rich mutiplied their wealth several fold. Everyone else including the "conventionally rich" got poorer.

It's bad because indivduals THAT rich arn't buisness pepole or bosses of companies they are the eccentrics who spend their days skiiing and fine dineing as they deligate all their duties basically the american aristocracy they didn't feel the recession at all but bailouts all got funneled into them. Koch brothers are a good exsample.
http://www.politicususa.com/en/koch-brothers-wealth

They are the ones who have the money.

 

[stovebolts]

I'm not saying I don't like to hear people are doing well. Of course I LOVE to hear this. Again, I'm not saying anyone is doing this, but the potential is there for people to pile on about how they were living below their means, doing the right thing, very sensible with their money, yadda yadda yadda. And then people feel awkward saying they were taken off guard and knocked back a few steps.

Mike,

We live below our means
We spend our money wisely
We are very sensible with our money
yadda
yadda
yadda

My income alone, I lost upward of around $700 per month when the recession hit. Did the recession impact us. Most certainly, but we're getting by, and yes, you've seen my "other" car... Just before our house was paid off, my wife's income took an $800 a month hit. Had our house not almost been paid off, we would have cut the satellite bill. Thankfully, we were able to pay off the house a bit early, so her loss of income was a wash.

As far as my 401k, I lost thousands. That may not mean much to somebody who's having a hard time putting food on the table, but that was hard earned money I put aside for retirement because until I was in my mid 30's, I didn't even think about retirement monies. Money that had I been loose with, could have went to buy a new car, or a boat or eating out every night "like normal folks". I can't tell you how many times we've packed a basket for a weekend get away instead of eating at Wendy's. It takes discipline.

We live below our means
We spend our money wisely
We are very sensible with our money
yadda
yadda
yadda

My wife and I know people who don't live the way we do, and those people that we know lost their houses, cars, boats etc and because we are the way we are, we've been able to help some of them in a small way. I'm not bragging about how we manage our money, but it's a lot easier to swallow a financial loss when your prepared for it. It's easier to watch your bank account shrink than it is to watch your house get pulled out from under you. Regardless, they both hurt.

So, regardless of how the recession has impacted you, it should be used as a learning lesson while always being thankful for what God has given you.

Actually, the effects of the recession is still hitting us. I have not gotten back what I've lost in wages and inflation is starting to eat away at the edges. Thank goodness I am now able to car pool, which just started last month, and that saves me about $200 a month in gas. If it wasn't for that savings, we would be forced to cut back in other areas, but it wouldn't have been savings or what we give.

 

[stovebolts]

In the case of Wall Street, it is "wiped out". If your stocks fall by 20% it's a lowered value of an asset, and no one got that money.

Cash is cash, it doesn't just burn up in some fire. It's out there circulating somewhere. When I think about what I've lost in my mutual funds etc, I think of it like this. I'm investing in something, and I expect a certain return on my money. To be practical, I put a dollar into a storefront, I expect to get a penny each month back on that dollar. For that to happen, the store has to take my dollar, and that dollar has to be put to work usually by purchasing somethign that it can resale for a profit.

If it doesn't make a profit, I have not lost my dollar because the dollar has already been spent. Simply put, I have a widget that I place the value of a dollar on. The widget is not the dollar. The dollar has been spent and it's circulating.

Now somebody has a ton of widgets that they've invested money in, and instead of selling them for a dollar, they sell it for 80 cents for a 20 cent loss on their investment. Regardless, 1.80 cents has been circulated. No cash has been "wiped out", only investment.

Just as when your house value falls, there isn't a check going to anyone - it's just worth a whole lot less than you were counting on it being worth.

I know a guy who buys houses, fixes them up and then sales them. To him, houses are an investment. If he sales a house for more than he's got into it, he looses his investment.

For the normal home owner, I don't see the biggie of a home dropping value unless they were using it as an asset to pull either a second mortgage or a line of credit. But's that's kind of what helped feed what got us into the recession to begin with. Regardless, that money was not wiped out either, it was transfered. The banks didn't loose any money because simply put, that money went into other peoples pockets. What the banks lost, was their investment. i.e. widgets. and unfortunatly, we're paying that tab.

The only way money can be "wiped out", would be if it somehow got destroyed. Just like if I drop a dollar in the sewer. It's gone. That's not what happened. What happened, was that dollar was transfered. Somebody made out pretty well, while others suffered by getting stuck with an abundance of widgets and lost expectations.

 

[Rhea]

Cash is cash, it doesn't just burn up in some fire. It's out there circulating somewhere. When I think about what I've lost in my mutual funds etc, I think of it like this.

I disagree with this. If I bought gold at $400/oz and held it and the price went up to $800 my "worth" (or "wealth") has increased. But that money did not come from someone else and get deposited with me, it is an artifact of what other people think of the value of gold. If the price then goes back down to $400/oz, my "worth" has been cut in half, but no one has gotten any cash. I still have an ounce of gold, and my worth has been cut in half and no other person got that $400 that I used to count as mine.

Stocks are exactly the same way. When the value of your stock goes up, no one deposited any money to you. The "worth" is really a future hope that someone will pay you more when you sell it. But the present change is really just a paper idea.

When a particular stock nosedives, the "idea" of its value change before any money changed hands. It's an artifact of some gal on Wall Street saying to another, "Nah, I am not interested in that at $1000. I don't feel like buying. If you offered it to me for $300, I'd take it, but not at $1000. The price on the board reflects what people are willing to pay for it and if they don't pay, then you still have the stock, but it is "worth" much much less. And no one got that money from you, it just went "poof" (since it had only "poofed into existence in teh first place).

The stock market is weird that way. It's not about actual value - it's about gambling on future value.

I'm investing in something, and I expect a certain return on my money. To be practical, I put a dollar into a storefront, I expect to get a penny each month back on that dollar. For that to happen, the store has to take my dollar, and that dollar has to be put to work usually by purchasing somethign that it can resale for a profit.

If it doesn't make a profit, I have not lost my dollar because the dollar has already been spent. Simply put, I have a widget that I place the value of a dollar on. The widget is not the dollar. The dollar has been spent and it's circulating.

This is not really analogous because the widget was created from the dollar's value. Stock price rises are nothing manufactured. They are someone's wager that the price will rise. It's not directly tied to company assets any more.

I know a guy who buys houses, fixes them up and then sales them. To him, houses are an investment. If he sales a house for more than he's got into it, he looses his investment.

He is fixing them up. He is doing something to them. You aren't doing anything to your stock to fix it up. Compare to a "flipper" someone who buys a property, does not thing at all to it, waits for the market to think it is worth more and sells it then. She is getting money for having done nothing. If, however, she waits too long and the value goes down below what she paid, the value she thought she had went poof and no one else got that check.

Think about the value going up and down several times while you own your house. The value is changing but no money is changing hands.

You 401K went down, but only the (currently perceived) value of it, no cash changed hands.

People's feeling of security changes, but the money that went "poof" away had come "poof" into the account in the first place. It means nothing until you sell it. EXCEPT that we think it means something while we hold it. BUt it doesn't. And that's why they use the phrase "taking profits" when there is a peak-side sell-ff of stocks. They didn't have the profits at all until they sold.

The only way money can be "wiped out", would be if it somehow got destroyed. Just like if I drop a dollar in the sewer. It's gone. That's not what happened. What happened, was that dollar was transfered. Somebody made out pretty well, while others suffered by getting stuck with an abundance of widgets and lost expectations.

When stocks lose prices, the money is not transferred, though. Not until they are sold. They just lose a perceived attractiveness to buyers. The prices go down the most, in fact, when NO ONE is buying.

This is my understanding, at any rate.

 

[tim-from-pa]

The rock band Styx had a great song back in the day called; " The Grand Illusion "
Remember that song? This is a great song and it sums up what we are talking about. Jesus himself could have song this back in the day. I think. [video]http://youtu.be/ZW8TlrYhBxk[/video]

Loved that song... it was sort of my college "theme song" as I remembered back then what my life could be in for. At least I realized it may not have been a success in what is commonly thought of as success. In reality, though, for a technician, I did not do bad at all and the Lord gave me way more than I expected, even without going into life with that attitude. But yes, there is truth to those words, and there's a yearning to live more simple that way.

 

[felix]

Stock Exchange for Dummies

A man and his assistant came to a village and told the villagers to hunt for monkeys from the nearby forest for which he will buy each monkey for 10$. So, the villagers actively went and got monkeys and each were paid 10$. After some days, the man again told the villagers that he need more monkeys, but this time he will pay 20$. So, the villagers actively went and caught some monkeys. As days passed by and because of many requests from the man, there were no monkeys in the forest. The cost of each monkey paid by the man increased till 40$ and there were no monkeys in the forest. The man went to town for his business. Meanwhile, his assistant told the villagers that he could sell the monkeys for 45$ and the man comes, he will buy for 50$. So, the villagers bought the monkeys for 45$ and the assistant ran away with the money. The man and the assistant never came again and the village is filled with monkeys and idiots.

So, technically, the village was in recession because all villagers want to sell the monkey at 50$ and no one wants to buy.

 

[Chris]

In Australia we are largly unaffected by it. The minimg resourses boom is sheltering us. That and a run of smart economist treasurers in parliament over the last few years.

The ones who are suffering are retail traders but that is because online shopping is killing retail stores.

As for me 2009 I lost my job as an electrician because of the recession Thingy then.

That made me study for getting a job where I am less likely to get retrenched. After a poorly paying year last year I got a job that is much better than my one as an electrician.

When life gives you lemons.......

House and debts, probably better not said.

 

[jasoncran]

Cash is cash, it doesn't just burn up in some fire. It's out there circulating somewhere. When I think about what I've lost in my mutual funds etc, I think of it like this. I'm investing in something, and I expect a certain return on my money. To be practical, I put a dollar into a storefront, I expect to get a penny each month back on that dollar. For that to happen, the store has to take my dollar, and that dollar has to be put to work usually by purchasing somethign that it can resale for a profit.

If it doesn't make a profit, I have not lost my dollar because the dollar has already been spent. Simply put, I have a widget that I place the value of a dollar on. The widget is not the dollar. The dollar has been spent and it's circulating.

Now somebody has a ton of widgets that they've invested money in, and instead of selling them for a dollar, they sell it for 80 cents for a 20 cent loss on their investment. Regardless, 1.80 cents has been circulated. No cash has been "wiped out", only investment.



I know a guy who buys houses, fixes them up and then sales them. To him, houses are an investment. If he sales a house for more than he's got into it, he looses his investment.

For the normal home owner, I don't see the biggie of a home dropping value unless they were using it as an asset to pull either a second mortgage or a line of credit. But's that's kind of what helped feed what got us into the recession to begin with. Regardless, that money was not wiped out either, it was transfered. The banks didn't loose any money because simply put, that money went into other peoples pockets. What the banks lost, was their investment. i.e. widgets. and unfortunatly, we're paying that tab.

The only way money can be "wiped out", would be if it somehow got destroyed. Just like if I drop a dollar in the sewer. It's gone. That's not what happened. What happened, was that dollar was transfered. Somebody made out pretty well, while others suffered by getting stuck with an abundance of widgets and lost expectations.

:bigfrown

i bought this house when the market was high and coming down a little and now its worth one third of its value. i wont walk away as i agreed to pay this but i am loosing money in that if i knew that i could buy this house now for 50k vs 160 k its irritatting

 

[stovebolts]

:bigfrown

i bought this house when the market was high and coming down a little and now its worth one third of its value. i wont walk away as i agreed to pay this but i am loosing money in that if i knew that i could buy this house now for 50k vs 160 k its irritatting

That's a bad place to be in Jason...

I know that there were a lot of people letting their houses go into foreclosure for just that reason, then they were turning around and buying another home for a lot less. I think even Obama tried to stop that behavior because it was just crushing they system as banks had to write those losses off and the tax payer was flipping the bill. Of course, I know that the banks have paid off like 90% of their bail outs...

It's a tough call Jason because 110,000 dollars is a lot of money. I'm in a different place than you, but if I could shed that kind of money I would certainly be getting a hold of a lawer. Seems like the bank would have two options. Lower the price of the house in line with current market value plus a few thousand, or have it go into foreclosure. Remember, it was the banks that helped over inflate the price of the houses to begin with, so they should share in the cost.

 

[Gazelle]

jasoncran, the current devaluation of your home is only a problem if you need to get out from under it. Real estate has always in the past been a good investment, and I suspect that home values will rise again, beginning next year for sure.

OR ==If you have an ARM that is coming due and you can't come up with the difference, you need to talk with your banker or mortgage holder asap.

If you are needing to sell, or lower the payments due to other recession elements, there are options and speaking to a realtor, and your banker will show you those. (I say realtor because the banker might not share all that's available, preferring to foreclose?)

 

[jasoncran]

jasoncran, the current devaluation of your home is only a problem if you need to get out from under it. Real estate has always in the past been a good investment, and I suspect that home values will rise again, beginning next year for sure.

OR ==If you have an ARM that is coming due and you can't come up with the difference, you need to talk with your banker or mortgage holder asap.

If you are needing to sell, or lower the payments due to other recession elements, there are options and speaking to a realtor, and your banker will show you those. (I say realtor because the banker might not share all that's available, preferring to foreclose?)

i have never been behind, im in fact 30 payments ahead. i pay on average 200 a month extra in principal. i have looked into this. my house is too far upside down to refinance. i can because when i bought my house i planed for the escrow to raise the payments up to 1500 a month which i dont even pay that now. i bought this house in 2007 and i am the only occupier of this house.

 

[jasoncran]

That's a bad place to be in Jason...

I know that there were a lot of people letting their houses go into foreclosure for just that reason, then they were turning around and buying another home for a lot less. I think even Obama tried to stop that behavior because it was just crushing they system as banks had to write those losses off and the tax payer was flipping the bill. Of course, I know that the banks have paid off like 90% of their bail outs...

It's a tough call Jason because 110,000 dollars is a lot of money. I'm in a different place than you, but if I could shed that kind of money I would certainly be getting a hold of a lawer. Seems like the bank would have two options. Lower the price of the house in line with current market value plus a few thousand, or have it go into foreclosure. Remember, it was the banks that helped over inflate the price of the houses to begin with, so they should share in the cost.

this is an fha payment and i have no legal grounds to do that. i agreed to pay in good faith and no the banks didnt directly, its the whole system that did that. remember valuse go up or down depending on the sales of nearby homes. speculative buyers that sold later did this and the banks went wild with it. the problem here jeff is that if we sue the banks like mad they will have to recover that money elsewhere as they loose money and they aint going to just eat it.

 

[Danus]

Loved that song... it was sort of my college "theme song" as I remembered back then what my life could be in for. At least I realized it may not have been a success in what is commonly thought of as success. In reality, though, for a technician, I did not do bad at all and the Lord gave me way more than I expected, even without going into life with that attitude. But yes, there is truth to those words, and there's a yearning to live more simple that way.

Tim I guess we're the old guys......For the benefit of the kids I'll post the lyrics.

Welcome to the Grand illusion
Come on in and see what's happening
Pay the price, get your tickets for the show
The stage is set, the band starts playing
Suddenly your heart is pounding
Wishing secretly you were a star.

But don't be fooled by the radio
The TV or the magazines
They show you photographs of how your life should be
But they're just someone else's fantasy
So if you think your life is complete confusion
Because you never win the game
Just remember that it's a Grand illusion
And deep inside we're all the same.
We're all the same...

So if you think your life is complete confusion
Because your neighbors got it made
Just remember that it's a Grand illusion
And deep inside we're all the same.
We're all the same...

America spells competition, join us in our blind ambition
Get yourself a brand new motor car
Someday soon we'll stop to ponder what on Earth's this spell we're under
We made the grade and still we wonder who the hell we are


I'll just say this, many people fall for "the grand illusion", and it can happen to anyone. I've fallen for it. My parents fell for it. I work with many people under it's spell and my neighbors are victims......the list goes on.

Those who the recession has affected the most just might be the biggest victims, but count yourself bless for the lesson.

I can't speak for all countries, but if you'er an American and complaining because you lost your job, or your not making as much, or you feel you can't retire now...then you might want to do some serious soul searching and just say thank you God for what you are showing me. I thought all that mattered, but I see your trying to tell me it does not.

Further more, if your upset that others make more or have more, then pray that God may help you with your covetousness (Excessively and culpably desirous of the possessions of another. See Synonyms at jealous. 2. Marked by extreme desire to acquire or possess Because this will eat you alive my brothers and sisters. ;)

I drive a 1999 Isuzu Rodeo. The side mirror is held in place with duck tape. It has some dents and dings and some stuff falling off, I have 5 CD's stuck in the changer and one speaker in the back hisses. People think I'm nuts for driving it. 158,000 miles and I intend to get 200,000 out of it. I don't have to drive it, but I do because well, I save money and it keeps me humble. When I do sell it I'm getting a used truck....I can buy a luxury car if I want to, but I'm not going there.

 

[Rhea]

Love that song.

 

[Danus]

Love that song.

... yeah, and the funny thing is, I bet you can't read the lyrics without singing it in your head will all the drums and guitar licks right along with it. ..I can't.

 

[Rhea]

... yeah, and the funny thing is, I bet you can't read the lyrics without singing it in your head will all the drums and guitar licks right along with it. ..I can't.

... I don't even need to read the lyrics - I know them all by heart. :muchlove

But you're right, the instant it was mentioned, the whole song got sung in my kitchen.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Not really very much -

We've always been "Yankees" in lifestyle, and never really went for the "Excesses" that many folks did.

I raised 4 Kids, and one Grand kid that we just put into college, and I still have the job I've had since '02, and being almost 70, the S.S. on top of the full salary as Cheif Engineer in a manufacturing plant that DIDN'T "Blow away" in the recession (even though we did lose 60% of our business, and changed direction pretty severely).

MY main outside activity is picking Bluegrass with folks of like interest, and I play with the "Cedar Junction" band - all the members of which are doing well economically also. SO all I need is gas money, and the occasional set of Banjo Strings. My Passport expired 4 years ago, and if I NEVER see the inside of another airplane, it'll be 2 years too soon.

Since I have no interest in "Travel", new cars, or "Technical toys" and neither of us can eat luxuriously (Heart issues and Diabetes), so our main expen$e has been taking care of the Kid$ in THEIR $ituation$ - two are doing well, 1 is struggling, and one - is a whole 'nuther story.

The last two years have been the highest grossing years we've ever had - largely related to the Lord having me in the right place at the right time - again like it's been for the last 50 years. I committed my way unto Him in '62, and He's done a fine job with it through thick and thin.

 

[Chris]

this is problematic thread in that if you have been blessed at this time and are prospering you wouldn't be game to admit it for fear of making everyone else feel bad about their current situation.

 

[Danus]

this is problematic thread in that if you have been blessed at this time and are prospering you wouldn't be game to admit it for fear of making everyone else feel bad about their current situation.

Then you have to define "Blessed" or "Prosperous"...if money and things are tied to those two words then it's only problematic for those who connect the two. I think the takeaway here is, that we need to stop equating wealth in general with being blessed.

If I am a homeless man with nothing, and someone gives me a dollar, then I am blessed, and so are they, and we both prosper. If I am wandering the desert and find a cool glass of water I am blessed.

When we "feel bad" because we think we are not somehow blessed because we don't have what others have, then we have a problem with our understanding of blessings and prosperity.

In my family when we sit down to eat we give thanks. I start it off with this simple prayer; "Lord thank you for this meal. Thank you for your many blessings. Go with us and keep us in your way, and help us to remember the good things you do for us every day." Then I call on one of my children to add to that prayer of thanks and we go all the way around the table. I do this because I want them to consider what God has done for us, not what we think he has not done for us, because that does not matter.

I am blessed, you are blessed and we are all prosperous. We should be talking about it and shouting it out load. This man made economy has nothing to do with it. It can all go south for all I care. We don't get our blessing from the world, or the bank, or government, jobs ect....