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How Justification Works ?

J

Jay T

Guest
An Example of Justification:

John 8:10 "When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more".


QUESTION: Since Jesus did not condemn her for Adultery (7th commandment), is she free to go out and commit some other sins, like stealing.....lying....ect ?

Then, tell me, why does the modern Christian world teach that it is OK to break God's 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) , which the Bible declares, as sin ?


What RIGHT does any Christian (?) have in telling God, which commandment they can break, and which they cannot break ?

Illegal Christians....are those who disobey God's Laws, think that HE will allow them into heaven....to disobey God there ?

Why does anyone think, that satan was banished from heaven ?

If God allows any person to disobey HIM while on earth during this probation period, in every person's life, into heaven, Then satan must also, be allowed back into heaven !
IF....God is a being of Justice and fairness !
 
Jay T at [url="http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=312931&highlight=#312931" said:
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... ht=#312931[/url] ] An Example of Justification:

John 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Your understanding of Justification is warped as is your entire base of theological study.

You used to frustrate me that one who was a moderator could hold such a pathetic understanding of Scripture, but now I am not frustrated, I am filled with pity for you.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:14-21

By the righteousness of Jesus Christ, came the FREE GIFT of JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE. Not the righteousness of one who follows the SDA idea of the law, but the righteousness of the one who kept the law, Jesus Christ.
 
Jay T
So tell me. I too would like to know what Justification means.
 
oscar3 said:
Jay T
So tell me. I too would like to know what Justification means.

Galations 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.


Yet, Paul contradicts himself, by writing Romans 2:13........
2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
What do you think ?



Romans 3:28 "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
3:29 [Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
3:30 Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law".


Does Paul contradict himself ......read verse 28, then verse 31.
 
Jay T said:
Galations 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.


Yet, Paul contradicts himself, by writing Romans 2:13........
2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
What do you think ?



Romans 3:28 "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
3:29 [Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
3:30 Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law".


Does Paul contradict himself ......read verse 28, then verse 31.
Your understanding of making the law void is off. Jesus fulfilled the law, he did not void it. If anyone could keep the law, they would fulfill the law; but no one but Jesus Christ is able. If man could keep the law, then the crucifixion of Jesus Christ would be void.

No one is worthy, but Jesus Christ, as He is the ONLY ONE who has, or will ever keep the law prior to His return. Have you not read Revelation 5 concerning who was worthy to open the seals of the book.

1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. 5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, F3 which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. 11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever. Revelation 5:1-14
 
Jay T said:
Galations 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.


Yet, Paul contradicts himself, by writing Romans 2:13........
2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
What do you think ?



Romans 3:28 "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
3:29 [Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
3:30 Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law".


Does Paul contradict himself ......read verse 28, then verse 31.

Jay T
You have not explained anything yet. Please explain what is justification
 
jay t
why do start a post on justification and then don't answer the questions.
Is it because you don't know the answers. :-? OH, WAIT, I know, its because Ellen G white has not been channeling the answers to you correct?
 
jgredline said:
Jay T
You have not explained anything yet. Please explain what is justification
E. White wrote this........There is great need that Christ should be preached as the only hope and salvation. When the doctrine of justification by faith was presented at the Rome meeting, it came to many as water comes to the thirsty traveler.
The thought that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us, not because of any merit on our part, but as a free gift from God, seemed a precious thought.--The Review and Herald, Sept. 3, 1889. {1SM 360.1}

******************************************************
E. White wrote this......Many are confused as to what constitutes the first steps in the work of salvation.
Repentance is thought to be a work the sinner must do for himself in order that he may come to Christ. They think that the sinner must procure for himself a fitness in order to obtain the blessing of God's grace. But while it is true that repentance must precede forgiveness, for it is only the broken and contrite heart that is acceptable to God, yet the sinner cannot bring himself to repentance, or prepare himself to come to Christ.

Except the sinner repent, he cannot be forgiven; but the question to be decided is as to whether repentance is the work of the sinner or the gift of Christ. Must the sinner wait until he is filled with remorse for his sin before he can come to Christ?
The very first step to Christ is taken through the drawing of the Spirit of God; as man responds to this drawing, he advances toward Christ in order that he may repent. {1SM 390.1}
The sinner is represented as a lost sheep, and a lost sheep never returns to the fold unless he is sought after and brought back to the fold by the shepherd. No man of himself can repent, and make himself worthy of the blessing of justification. The Lord Jesus is constantly seeking to impress the sinner's mind and attract him to behold Himself, the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sins of the world.

We cannot take a step toward spiritual life save as Jesus draws and strengthens the soul, and leads us to experience that repentance which needeth not to be repented of.
**********************************************************

E. White wrote this.....I was attending a meeting, and a large congregation were present. In my dream you (Waggoner) were presenting the subject of faith and the imputed righteousness of Christ by faith. You repeated several times that works amounted to nothing, that there were no conditions. The matter was presented in that light that I knew minds would be confused, and would not receive the correct impression in reference to faith and works, and I decided to write to you. You state this matter too strongly. There are conditions to our receiving justification and sanctification, and the righteousness of Christ.

I know your meaning, but you leave a wrong impression upon many minds.
While good works will not save even one soul, yet it is impossible for even one soul to be saved without good works. God saves us under a law, that we must ask if we would receive, seek if we would find, and knock if we would have the door opened unto us.

{1SM 377.1}
Christ offers Himself as willing to save unto the uttermost all who come unto Him. He invites all to come to Him. "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (John 6:37). You look in reality upon these subjects as I do, yet you make these subjects, through your expressions, confusing to minds. And after you have expressed your mind radically in regard to works, when questions are asked you upon this very subject, it is not lying out in so very clear lines, in your own mind, and you cannot define the correct principles to other minds, and you are yourself unable to make your statements harmonize with your own principles and faith. {1SM 378.1}

The young man came to Jesus with the question, "Good Master, what shall I do, that I may inherit eternal life?" (Mark 10:17). And Christ saith unto him, "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." He saith unto Him, "Which?" Jesus quoted several, and the young man said unto Him, "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?" Jesus said unto him, "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." Here are conditions, and the Bible is full of conditions. "But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions" (Matt. 19:17, 20, 21, 22). {1SM 378.2}
 
Jay T
Is it not against the TOS of this site to promote other religions?
 
oscar3 said:
Jay T
Is it not against the TOS of this site to promote other religions?
Then you would charge God with trying to bring the truth to people ?

WHO ARE YOU TO TELL GOD.....what HE can do ?
 
Jay T said:
oscar3 said:
Jay T
Is it not against the TOS of this site to promote other religions?

Then you would charge God with trying to bring the truth to people ?

WHO ARE YOU TO TELL GOD.....what HE can do ?
hm heh umm, Hey....uh.......god..................Jay T.....................calm down.................Oscar is just trying to assist you in correcting your false teachings to align with God Almighty! 8-)
 
Jay T said:
Then you would charge God with trying to bring the truth to people ?

Jay T
You need to stop with your pagan worship of ellen g white
“If God were your father,†said Jesus, “you would love me, for I came from God and arrived here. I didn’t come on my own. He sent me. Why can’t you understand one word I say? Here’s why: You can’t handle it. You’re from your father, the Devil, and all you want to do is please him. He was a killer from the very start. He couldn’t stand the truth because there wasn’t a shred of truth in him. When the Liar speaks, he makes it up out of his lying nature and fills the world with lies. I arrive on the scene, tell you the plain truth, and you refuse to have a thing to do with me. Can any one of you convict me of a single misleading word, a single sinful act? But if I’m telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? Anyone on God’s side listens to God’s words. This is why yo¢â‚¬â„¢re not listeningâ€â€because you’re not on God’s side.â€Â
 
Jay T said:
... why does the modern Christian world teach that it is OK to break God's 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) , which the Bible declares, as sin ?

Correction: the bible declares it as sin under law. However, we are not under law, but under grace.

What RIGHT does any Christian (?) have in telling God, which commandment they can break, and which they cannot break ?

None. However, by not observing the sabbath, one is not breaking God's commandment, for he has not commanded us to keep it. Your argument begs the question.
 
Galations 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Yet, Paul contradicts himself, by writing Romans 2:13........
2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
What do you think ?



Romans 3:28 "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
3:29 [Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
3:30 Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law".

Does Paul contradict himself ......read verse 28, then verse 31.

If you have faith in the one who tells you the law and the commandments are still at work, then you know that breaking the law is still sin. If you have faith in the one who teaches you to keep the royal commandment, then you will keep the royal commandment. It is by faith in the teacher and not by the works themselves that we are justified for the works themselves do not justify anyone.
 
wavy said:
None. However, by not observing the sabbath, one is not breaking God's commandment, for he has not commanded us to keep it. Your argument begs the question.
I beg to differ....
As the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath is the ONLY commandment, that God set up, to show their loyalty to God......
20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.

To break the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11), the 7th day sabbath, is the same as lying....stealing...killing....in the eyes of God (James 2:10-12).

God identifies HIS people as those who keeps ALL the commandments (Revelation 14:12), and this is acomplished thru GRACE, which God provides free.

GRACE...is God's free-given power to obey whatever HE says to do (Romans 1:5).

To break the 7th day sabbath, is enough to keep a person out of heaven....IF....that person willingly IGNORES God's will.
 
Jay T said:
I beg to differ....
As the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath is the ONLY commandment, that God set up, to show their loyalty to God......
20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.

To break the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11), the 7th day sabbath, is the same as lying....stealing...killing....in the eyes of God (James 2:10-12).

God identifies HIS people as those who keeps ALL the commandments (Revelation 14:12), and this is acomplished thru GRACE, which God provides free.

GRACE...is God's free-given power to obey whatever HE says to do (Romans 1:5).

To break the 7th day sabbath, is enough to keep a person out of heaven....IF....that person willingly IGNORES God's will.
So do you keep the fourth commandment as the Israelites were commanded to keep it, or do you keep it as the SDA bunch decides to keep it?
 
Jay T said:
As the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath is the ONLY commandment, that God set up, to show their loyalty to God......
20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.

This is simply untrue. God made many declarations that the children of Israel (and others) would "know" him by (e.g. Exodus 8:22, Exodus 10:2, Exodus 14:4, Exodus 29:46, etc.)

Exodus 29:46 deals with injunctions concerning tabernacle service and ordinances (see prec.)

To break the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11), the 7th day sabbath, is the same as lying....stealing...killing....in the eyes of God (James 2:10-12).

Yes, when he required its observance as a sign of the first covenant. It is my firm conviction that he doesn't. This is made clear in the NT.

God identifies HIS people as those who keeps ALL the commandments (Revelation 14:12), and this is acomplished thru GRACE, which God provides free.

Ambiguity. What commandments? If the ten commandments, why have you restricted the term "commandments" to the ten commandments (although the ten "commandments" don't exist in scripture).

GRACE...is God's free-given power to obey whatever HE says to do (Romans 1:5).

And he tells us to believe in Jesus Christ.
 
Jay T wrote:
As the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath is the ONLY commandment, that God set up, to show their loyalty to God......
20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.

This is simply untrue. God made many declarations that the children of Israel (and others) would "know" him by (e.g. Exodus 8:22, Exodus 10:2, Exodus 14:4, Exodus 29:46, etc.)
Would you believe that the 7th day sabbath was created by Christ some 2300+ Years...BEFORE.....there ever was an Israelite ?
Exodus 29:46 deals with injunctions concerning tabernacle service and ordinances (see prec.)
The 7th day sabbath was observed...BEFORE any Tabernacle service were ordained, Read Exodus 16....where the 7th day sabbath was observed BEFORE they ever got to Mt. Sinai.

:
To break the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11), the 7th day sabbath, is the same as lying....stealing...killing....in the eyes of God (James 2:10-12).


Yes, when he required its observance as a sign of the first covenant. It is my firm conviction that he doesn't. This is made clear in the NT.
Both the Old Covenant and the New Covenant have the same LAWS.

:
God identifies HIS people as those who keeps ALL the commandments (Revelation 14:12), and this is acomplished thru GRACE, which God provides free.


Ambiguity. What commandments? If the ten commandments, why have you restricted the term "commandments" to the ten commandments (although the ten "commandments" don't exist in scripture).
The 10 commandments does not exist in scripture ?!?

The Bible clearly states that Christ as God wrote ONLY 10 commandments, and 'added no more' .........

Deut. 5:6 I [am] the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
5:8 Thou shalt not make thee [any] graven image, [or] any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the waters beneath the earth:
5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me,
5:10 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold [him] guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
5:14 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
5:16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
5:17 Thou shalt not kill.
5:18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
5:19 Neither shalt thou steal.
5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any [thing] that [is] thy neighbour's.
5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.



GRACE...is God's free-given power to obey whatever HE says to do (Romans 1:5).


And he tells us to believe in Jesus Christ.
And what did Jesus Christ say ?
4:4 "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God".

And when God said: 20:20 "And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God".

I BELIEVE HIM !

Because Jesus said that NOTHING would change out of the LAW of God until heaven and earth passed away first.....the 4th commandment is part of the 10.

HAS heaven and earth passed away ?
 
Jay T said:
Would you believe that the 7th day sabbath was created by Christ some 2300+ Years...BEFORE.....there ever was an Israelite ?

I don't view Genesis as you do, but if I did, you this claim would be impertinent as to whether or not the sabbath is to be observed today.

The 7th day sabbath was observed...BEFORE any Tabernacle service were ordained

That is irrelevant. Pre-ordainment has no bearing on pre-eminence. Red herring.

Both the Old Covenant and the New Covenant have the same LAWS.

Not even according to you. According to you some foreign entity known as the "ceremonial law" as distinct from the "ten 'commandments'" was done away with in the NC.

I would concede that the NC and the OC have the same underlying principle behind propriety (love). However, the system of law is not the same. The system of law that came from Sinai has been ended (Galatians 3:19).

The 10 commandments does not exist in scripture ?!?

No. The ten words/statements/utterances exist in scripture. The Greek word for "commandment" in the NT is entole (such as in the cited "prooftext" of Rev. 14:12). "Commandments" don't = the ten. If that were so, the author would have used "words" instead (the LXX, the primary text quoted by the NT authors, preserves "words" by translating The Hebrew debarim into the Greek logous).

The Bible clearly states that Christ as God wrote ONLY 10 commandments, and 'added no more' .........

Read Exodus 20:18-19 and Deuteronomy 5:23-27 to discover why this is so. He did add more, just not by speaking it (he used Moses).

And what did Jesus Christ say ?
4:4 "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God".

And now you have assumed that "every word" means "ten 'commandments'" without contextual support.

And when God said: 20:20 "And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God".

I BELIEVE HIM !

Then you are a child of Israel in the first covenant then, right?

Because Jesus said that NOTHING would change out of the LAW of God until heaven and earth passed away first.....the 4th commandment is part of the 10.

Now you have used "law" and "10 ['commandments']" synonymously (anachronism in view of the usage of "law" to a Jew during this time, and even today). And obviously you have misunderstood Jesus. For there is a change of law (Hebrews 7:12). If you say that this speaks of your assumed separate "ceremonial law", then what's the formula for taking it to mean "ten 'commandments'" or "ceremonial"?

I know! It's two things. Begging the question + the fallacy of equivocation = your interpretation. You presuppose that "law/words/commandments" etc . refers to the 10, because the ten just have to be that moral standard, right? Then you use the ambiguity of the word "law" and meander back and forth between "moral law" (10) and "ceremonial law" (all that other stuff you have no desire to observe).

The SDA position has been recurrently refuted/confuted/disproved/rebutted/rejected multiple times and they just don't seem to get it.
 
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