How Justification Works ?

[Oscar3]

Re: Definition

So - the sins you will commit tomorrow - are they forgiven or will you have to do something to get forgiveness? If you will have to do something then what is that something?

Jay T believes that one needs t be born everyday and especially the second before one dies, :o

Jay T believes that when Jesus said ''it is finished'' Jesus meant finished for that day.

 

[AVBunyan]

Re: Definition

Jay T believes that when Jesus said ''it is finished'' Jesus meant finished for that day.

Oh that is good ocsar3 8-)

God bless

 

[unred typo]

Here is a good definition – based upon Webster’s 1828
JUSTIFICA'TION
In theology, absolution from guilt and punishment; or an act of free grace by which God pardons the sinner and accepts him as righteous, on account of the atonement of Christ.
Notice the above – where can you find the sinner’s role?

That‘s not a very good definition, AV. It is woefully incomplete. It doesn’t include the repentance of the sinner.

So - the sins you will commit tomorrow - are they forgiven or will you have to do something to get forgiveness? If you will have to do something then what is that something?

You have to repent. You can’t be forgiven of a sin that you refuse to repent of.

Oh that is good ocsar3 8-)

No that was another bad definition. When Jesus said, “it is finished,†he meant the payment for sin was complete. He will never have to give another drop of blood because what he did was sufficient for all the sin of all the world from the beginning to the end of time. If not all the people he died for repent and use the blood to cover their sin, why will he have to die again? His blood is sufficient for every sin. You have been promised a lifetime supply. When does a lifetime supply run out?

Now when does the blood cover your sin? When you repent and confess it. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from every unrighteousness. How are you going to confess a sin you haven’t committed yet?

:-?

 

[AVBunyan]

That‘s not a very good definition, AV. It is woefully incomplete. It doesn’t include the repentance of the sinner. :-?

That's because you still believe your repentance is part of your salvation. you just want to stand before God and have him tell you what a fine fella you are don't you? :-?

 

[cyberjosh]

That's because you still believe your repentance is part of your salvation.

Defining the moment of salvation is harder than identifying the moment of belief, because salvation is contingent on belief. But he who believes and repents will be saved, though salvation is wholely work of God and the conviction of sins unto repentance first comes from God to draw you into belief in Himself so that He can save you. That is a more comprehensive, if short, look at the issue in my opinion.

~Josh

 

[Solo]

Eternal Salvation and Eternal Punishment is determined prior to the judgment. Jesus spoke of this being the case in Luke 16. The rich man died and his soul went to Sheol/Hades in torment while Lazarus was carried by angels to Abraham's bosom. This all occurs prior to judgment.

The judgment will be to determine the rewards for the righteous and the punishment for the unrighteous.

Salvation comes at the moment one is quickened by the Holy Spirit and given the faith the believe after hearing the word of God of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Once Salvation occurs the New believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.

 

[Jay T]

Re: Definition

True sanctification is impossible apart from Jesus Christ. No matter how hard you try, you will sin.

So then....you're saying Jesus Christ is WRONG, in His statement: 'go and sin no more' (John 5:14 & 8:11) ?
If you don't mind, I'll just believe in what Jesus says, OK ?

BUT, I do agree with you on that point of not reaching true sanctification without Jesus Christ !

You make it sound as if though we have the power while on this earth to sin no more Jay T.

Well.....I do beleive in what the Bible says:
1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God".
But, I will not interfere with what you want to believe.....I'm just stating what I believe, OK ?

 

[Solo]

Re: Definition

Well.....I do beleive in what the Bible says:
1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God".
But, I will not interfere with what you want to believe.....I'm just stating what I believe, OK ?

Jay T,
Telling one small lie is a sin, so I would expect for you to go and sin no more if you continue to push this on others while you are unable to.

You continue to hide in the darkness that you have created for yourself, as you continue to sin, but the Scriptures are clear concerning your position in Christ.

Satan is the father of lies, so repent and turn to God's truth.

 

[Jay T]

Re: Definition

Jay said this.....Well.....I do beleive in what the Bible says:
1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God".
But, I will not interfere with what you want to believe.....I'm just stating what I believe, OK ?

Jay T,
Telling one small lie is a sin, so I would expect for you to go and sin no more if you continue to push this on others while you are unable to.

You mean quoting scripture, is a lie ?

You continue to hide in the darkness that you have created for yourself, as you continue to sin, but the Scriptures are clear concerning your position in Christ.

YES, they are....... 1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
And my position has always been, that the 'saved' person keeps the commandments of God.

Satan is the father of lies, so repent and turn to God's truth.

Did you forget that satan is also at ...WAR...with those peoiple that keep God's commandments ?

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I rest my case !

 

[Fnerb]

Re: Definition

YES, they are....... 1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
And my position has always been, that the 'saved' person keeps the commandments of God.

So that means that either

A. You are saved you therefore no longer sin. So if I were around you, you would never speak or even think bad of someone. Never curse...never sin AT ALL.

or

B. The second you sin, you believe you are no longer saved. Because even while on this earth, someone whom is saved can't possibly comit a sin.

You continually put the law before the gospel. The law shows us we are nothing but sinful creatures who couldn't possibly be perfect as God requires. But thanks be to God that his son Jesus came and lived that perfect life for us. So when God looks at us now through his Son's blood, he sees perfection.

 

[Solo]

Re: Definition

You mean quoting scripture, is a lie ?

God is not a liar, but you giving the perception that you no longer sin is a lie. Also your interpretation of the Scripture is a lie, therefore, if you must keep all of God's commandments in order to gain access into heaven, you might as well plan on an eternity in Hell.

 

[Jay T]

Re: Definition

So that means that either

A. You are saved you therefore no longer sin. So if I were around you, you would never speak or even think bad of someone. Never curse...never sin AT ALL.

Do you know the difference between known sins, and UNknown sins ?

or

B. The second you sin, you believe you are no longer saved. Because even while on this earth, someone whom is saved can't possibly comit a sin.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
(How I view this verse.....You are not to commit any known sins, BUT if you fall into committing a sin, ask forgiveness for that sins, vowing to God, that you don't want to do it again)
2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
(This Bible verse tell us ....that those who commit sin, by breaking God's commandments...DO NOT have the truth)

You continually put the law before the gospel.

Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple.

Do you understand what that verse just said ?

The Law is involved in the Gospel message .....no Law, no Gospel.
WHY ?

Romans 4:15 ".... for where no law is, [there is] no transgression".
In other words, if there is no law, there is no sin, therfore no need of a Savior, Because if you do not sin, why is there a need for a Savior ?

The law shows us we are nothing but sinful creatures

And that, is its ONLY purpose !

who couldn't possibly be perfect as God requires.

WRONG !


You think God who tells us to be perfect...did not have a plan, whereby we can do so ?

You think God told us to do something that was impossible ?
LISTEN UP !
#1.) Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

#2.) Luke 1:37 "For with God nothing shall be impossible".

#3.) Mark 10:27 "And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men [it is] impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible".

And, the scripture below tells why you find things impossible.....
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

That is WHY I'm an SDA....because I know that NOTHING is impossible with God in control, of a person's life !

The Bible's description of an SDA is this.....
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

But thanks be to God that his son Jesus came and lived that perfect life for us. So when God looks at us now through his Son's blood, he sees perfection.

ONLY when one is doing exactly as Jesus said to do.
Because there is no such thing as, 'perfection', while committing any known sin.
There is no place in all the Bible, that even implies a person who sins is perfect.

How perfect can a person be..... lying....stealing.... committing adultery....bearing false witness ?

God has pointed out people that were 'perfect'....JOB, for example.

 

[Fnerb]

Re: Definition

God has pointed out people that were 'perfect'....JOB, for example.

But if Job were perfect, why did he die considering the wages of sin is death?

 

[francisdesales]

Re: Definition

But if Job were perfect, why did he die considering the wages of sin is death?

Original sin.

Regards

 

[Jay T]

Re: Definition

But if Job were perfect, why did he die considering the wages of sin is death?

I can't answer for God, because God did not reveal to me the reason why Job died, being a perfect man.

Maybe the same reason God allowed almost all the disciples to be killed, instead of dying natural deaths.