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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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How long after the abomination before the mark is set up?
- Thread starter lecoop
- Start date
J
John the Baptist
Guest
Darrell dunn said:
****
This might see a small part of where it is coming from?
John here:
Subject: --HISTORY REPEAT!--
Just a thought: If one Really Belives God!?
And if one cannot follow God's quoted Truth of Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 as the Word of God, where He stated CLEARLY, and in a way that even most of Heb. 5's 'milk/fed' ones can get something from, then I suggest that you shy away from Ph.D'ism, the arm of flesh & the Greek, Latin, & Heb., & stick with just one King James translation itself.
The BOTTOM line is, is that ALL of these others ways of finding 'some' truth, are the real reasons that have caused the BIGGEST MESS OF DIS/UNITY that the GOSPEL ALONE, prophesied of! See Rev. 17:5
And I realize that there are & were, some who could not understand Paul's wording of inspiration even, & that it is scripture that also says that.... 'which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction'. 2 Peter 3:14-17 in part.
Lets start with Eccl. 3:14.
"I know that, WHATSOEVER GOD DOETH, IT SHALL BE FOREVER: NOTHING CAN BE PUT TO IT, NOR ANY THING TAKEN FROM IT: ..." (in part)
Actually it is just about a repeat even in Wording, as seen in Rev.'s closing verses!
The verses are a WARNING about adding to or removing any part of the Word of God! And the BOTTOM line is that ones name would be removed from the Book of Life. Now for the rest of the 14th verse. "... THAT MEN SHOULD FEAR BEFORE HIM."
For one to say that the Eccl. verses do not mean what they say, is doing just that!
Now look at the verse following verse 14. Verse 15 says.. "THAT WHICH HAS BEEN IS NOW; AND THAT WHICH IS TO BE HAS ALREADY BEEN; AND GOD REQUIRETH THAT WHICH IS PAST." GOD'S WORD says that it is so!
If it is not to be, God say that it will not be. Example: 'Sin will not arise a second time' Nah. 1:9. And we all know about the world flood not happening a second time? (If that too, is not believed as poetry) So, there are so very few times that history does not repeat, and that God does the easy thing for [us] by pointing out the lesser number. (by the way, Rev. is full of O.T. Sanctuary! see Ps. 77:13)
If anyone would BELIEVE THE *GODHEAD'S INSPIRED WORD (ALL OF IT! See 2 Tim. 3:16 & Matt. 4:4) they would find very Few reasons for mixed up doctrinal folds.
But the bottom line is that even the Virgin Fold is following after the fate of old Virgin Israel, of old!! (same history) They are once again Christ/less. Rev. 3:9 or Rev. 17:5! And the nasty repeat for them is VERIFIED in Eze. 9.
Try reading Rev. 12:17 S-L-O-W-L-E-Y! And in Christ's day, who do you think took over the 'DESOLATE' fold that Christ was put out of? Matthew 23:38
So, this is what will be the final fate of Spiritual Virgin Israel! (the 666 thing'y is for the world's testing) See 1 Peter 4:17 FOR WHO IS JUDGED FIRST.
Back to Chapter 1:9-10 of Eccl. Lets check to 'see' (if we can) if God made a mistake? (man's foolish 'poetry' remark)
We do remember that we were told that 'IT SHALL BE FOR EVER and that NOTHING CAN BE PUT TO IT NOR ANYTHING TAKEN FROM IT'? (chapter 3:14-15 of Eccl.)
"THE THING THAT HATH BEEN IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE; AND THAT WHICH IS DONE IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE DONE: AND THERE IS [NOTHING] *NO NEW THING UNDER THE SUN. v.9
IS THERE [*ANY THING] WHERE OF IT MAY BE SAID, SEE, THIS IS NEW? [IT HATH BEEN ALREADY OF OLD TIME, WHICH WAS BEFORE US.]" v.10
Notice that after the GodHead's question, that Their Inspiration came quickly before 'ignorant' man could botch up the question!! But what does one hear today?? Should we do the 'foolish' (Matt. 25) thing and read & study the 'earthly' educated ones reams & reams of commentaries, with hardly any two alike?? (false fold/wise at least)
So: When Christ addressed Peter in one conversation, He did not recite poetry. He stated a fact, and said.. 'Get behind me satan'. And NO, we have NOT COME TO THE START OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION YET! we ARE STILL HERE, but we are well into its commencement!! It is the early 'time of trouble'! And, NO the saints are going nowhere until after this time is over!
Vic C.
Member
Funny you should say that, because it is years and years of commentaries and such that has labeled Rome as the Whore in Revelation. If you were to study the Bible from cover to cover, you would NEVER have come up with that on your own.
In fact, if you read it without presuppositions, you might be surprised at what the Bible really says about who the Harlot Woman is in Revelation. Think about it for a while... no commentaries, no SDA-like theories. Just sola scriptura.
T
ttg
Guest
Darrell dunn said:
From the "Left Behind" books. Some people can't tell fact from fiction.
Gabbylittleangel
Member
ttg said:
At least it did not come from a Bruce Willis movie.
Gabbylittleangel
Member
Re: reply
I'm gonna need it. I am expecting a visit from Ernesto sometime in the next 24 hours.
golfjack said:
I'm gonna need it. I am expecting a visit from Ernesto sometime in the next 24 hours.
J
John the Baptist
Guest
vic said:
*******
John here: Is that a fact, you can actually read what is in my mind???
You just plain cannot make a 'personal' judgement of my 'commitment' to my Master friend!
I personally believe in His Words of Matthew 4:4 & His 'Word' of 2 Timothy 3:16. Is that your 'diet?'And I sincerely [doubt] if at your young age of nearly 50? you have even scratched the scriptural surface of my understanding of the whore & her Daughters of Revelation 17:5.
And I see His Word needing NONE of the stuff that you seem to at least insinuate me with 'personally' needing!
A very Bad call Victor!The Bible & the Bible alone is all that I need or have ever needed to believe in the ETERNAL EVERLASTING GOSPEL AND THE GODHEADS ETERNAL COVENANT. It is my SOLE hermenutics in bottom line!
Anytime that you want to use the Word alone to teach me of 'your yoked' doctrinal teaching of an eternal burning hell, or sun sacredness, or O.S.A.S. or that you will not surely die by being dis/obedient? Or that your yoked fold is not a daughter of the great Revelation 17:5 whore? Go for it!
---John
T
ttg
Guest
vic said:ttg said::
Nice to see you in here. We need some more amil believers posting here.
I believe there will be a second coming of Christ. Its the third and fourth that are a bit of a stretch.
Vic C.
Member
Easy N. B. No one is judging you or trying to to read your mind. What you believe, you clearly state here, in public. I too believe 2 Timothy 3:16, which is why I suggested what I posted.
My age should not even be an issue. Neither you or myself, nor anyone is above 2 Timothy 3:16.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
All I asked is if you are willing to read the OT and see if you come to the conclusion that Rome is the Whore. Forget the NT even exists for a moment. Do this: get out your Bible and gather up all the verses with the word "harlot" in them and compare them to Revelation 17.
That's all I ask; no disrespect intended.
Peace N.B.,
Vic
My age should not even be an issue. Neither you or myself, nor anyone is above 2 Timothy 3:16.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
All I asked is if you are willing to read the OT and see if you come to the conclusion that Rome is the Whore. Forget the NT even exists for a moment. Do this: get out your Bible and gather up all the verses with the word "harlot" in them and compare them to Revelation 17.
That's all I ask; no disrespect intended.
Peace N.B.,
Vic
J
John the Baptist
Guest
vic said:
PS: Do what?? Are you going abstract?? (that is a question) O.T. without Matthew 4:4??? And 2 Timothy 3:16??? Who are you 'now' working for Victor? (study for the LAST DAY that we are in, without Revelation 13?)
Look at it from my end? The anti/Christ in the old T. came to view in Dan. 2, more detail in Dan. 7, finished in Rev. 13 with John looking from Rev. to Dan. in hindsight. (not to even mention THEIR OWN BOASTFUL IDENTIFYING MARK OF 4TH COMMANDMENT CHANGING of Daniel 7:25)
But if you think that, that prophecy started 'satan' with anything other than state & church, you best go back to Genesis 4:7 for satans first 'mature' [WHORE] ANTICHRIST convert, (aprox.) 120 years before Seth came on the scene as a son of God.
And this time/period found God with HIS own theocracy even before Romans 13 comes to view. (yet, Christ understood this! Matthew 22:21) God had to destroy both histories (Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15) at their 'Finished' ending! Cain's antediluvians by flood, & Rome's anti/Christ debauchery by fire!
You say the antiChrist is a new thing????
What do you make out of Luke 12:47-48 if that is the Case, (these professed ones will be the ones who burn the longest in hell) or Ecclesiastes 3:15's stated fact by the Godhead? If you do not know what antiChrist means from the Word of God as you claim? See Joshua 7:12's last part of the verse, or Christ's stated [FACT] in Matthew 23:38! When Christ is [MISSING] who takes over??????---John
J
John the Baptist
Guest
vic said:
******
John here:
So I was 'truely' believing that you were Catholic then Babtist. (I had honestly believed those to be your words of the past?
It seems that somewhere over the long years when you were posting here, that I read that??? Perhaps that is not correct? You are now not Baptist??But, as I see it, if I were a Baptist, and you were also Baptist while teaching doctrine that was in opposition of what makes one a Baptist? And the church allowed that to take place, and continue on?
Then, I would never stay in yoked membership with something that I did not believe in! Revelation 18:4 (not to mention the other stuff)
Vic C.
Member
If you are suggesting that the whore and the antichrist are one in the same, then there is no point in further discussion. The Bible doesn't even suggest that at all.
Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
No, you are correct. But maybe you'd like to explain to us what you think a Baptist is and what we are required to believe.
Also, if the entire Baptist faith (for instance) believed in a pretribulation rapture, I could not fellowship with them? Bah! (the couple of points where I disagree with concerning their "standard teaching" I will offer up only when asked.) We are not programmed robots, nor are we legalistic or dogmatic. Our common bond as Baptists are a Believer's baptism and developing a personal relationship with our Creator, The Almighty coupled with a deep sense of family and sanctity of life.
Here, I'll help you out:
1 A Baptist is an individual who has experienced salvation through personal faith in Jesus Christ....
2 A Baptist is one who acknowledges the sufficiency of Scripture....
3 A Baptist is one who acknowledges the Lordship of Jesus Christ....
4 A Baptist is Trinitarian in his/her understanding of God....
5 A Baptist is one who recognizes the autonomy of the local church....
6 A Baptist is one who believes in the command of the Great Commission and has a deep commitment to evangelism and world missions....
7 A Baptist is one who fully advocates and supports the cause of religious liberty and freedom for all....
What is a Southern Baptist? This question is a natural outcome of our first inquiry. We as Southern Baptists embrace the uniqueness and essentials listed above, but move further into the Southern Baptist distinctive of cooperation. We do what we do together. We do what we do together voluntarily. No one coerces us.
(what this means is when we evangelize, we do it as a team. When we do missionary work, we do it as a team. When we set up or give to charities... teamwork, etc.)
http://www.baptist2baptist.net/b2barticle.asp?ID=226
J
John the Baptist
Guest
If you are suggesting that the whore and the antichrist are one in the same, then there is no point in further discussion. The Bible doesn't even suggest that at all.vic said:
***
John here: OK, have it your way. But is that what I said or suggested? What Daniel prophecy was included in my post friend??
And about the thread you sent? Thanks. I thought that this below about said it all:
(Vic, compare these K.J. verses from Revelation 17:5 with Genesis 11:7-9 & Isaiah 24:1-10 & 1 Corinthians 14:33) Baptists Adrift in Doctrinal Confusion
by Tim Ellsworth
October 2001
Only 43 percent of Baptists believe that works don't earn salvation and 66 percent believe Satan isn't a real being, according to a new study released by the Barna Research Group and reported by the Florida Baptist Witness.
The study explored the religious beliefs of the nation's twelve largest denominations and determined that only 41 percent of adults in those denominations could be classified as "born again."
"The Barna report is a credible perspective on the state of Christian conviction in America today," R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, told the Witness. "The report is a striking indictment of the loss of doctrinal confidence and the erosion of biblical beliefs that marks American Christianity."
George Barna, president of the California firm that conducted the research, said the study was not intended to report the official teachings of any denomination. "The data reflect what the people within those churches believe," Barna said. "If nothing else, this outcome highlights the substantial theological shift that has been altering the nature of the Episcopal church, in particular, as well as other Christian churches, in recent years."
The study's findings identify an alarmingly high number of church members whose beliefs fall far short of orthodox Christianity. For example, 41 percent of all adults surveyed believed in the total accuracy of the Bible. Catholics had the lowest percentage (23 percent) who believed the Bible to be accurate, while 81 percent of those attending Pentecostal churches held to the same belief. Only 40 percent of those surveyed believed Christ was sinless, while 27 percent believed Satan to be real.
"The trends Barna traces have been progressing for several years," Mohler said. "Americans have been negotiating away the core doctrines of the Christian faith - all the while claiming to remain Christians. But Christianity is defined by certain definite and non-negotiable doctrines. Without these, there is no Christianity at all - just the emptying sanctuaries of declining churches and denominations."
The numbers were better for Baptists than for the whole sample, but not by much. Of the Baptists surveyed, 57 percent believed works play a part in salvation, and 45 percent believed Jesus was not sinless. Only 34 percent of Baptists thought Satan was a real being, while 51 percent believed Christians have the responsibility to witness to others. Sixty-six percent of Baptists considered the Bible to be totally accurate, 81 percent considered their religious faith to be important and 85 percent believed God is the all-powerful creator of the universe.
The Barna study didn't break down the Baptist category into specific denominations like Southern Baptists or General Baptists, so the results may not be typical of Southern Baptists as a whole.
"What we've found is that when you interview people about what kind of Baptist church they attend, a large proportion of them either don't know or they will give you information that's inaccurate," Barna told the Florida Baptist Witness. "So, we typically don't break that out."
But even if the results would be even marginally better for Southern Baptists, they're still disappointing, said Phil Roberts, president of Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.
"This should not be too surprising," Roberts said. "We have 16 million members [in the Southern Baptist Convention] and I think it's a fair estimate that less than half actually attend church on Sunday. It's pretty hard to believe that Christ was not sinless and call yourself a Christian."
The two denominations with the highest number of members who hold to orthodox Christian beliefs were Pentecostals and Assemblies of God. Catholics and Episcopalians had the lowest percentage of members reporting a belief in traditional Christian teachings. Just 20 percent of Episcopalians and 17 percent of Catholics believed Satan was real; 33 percent of Catholics and Episcopalians believed Jesus was sinless; and 26 percent of Episcopalians and 9 percent of Catholics believed works don't earn salvation.
"The Christian body in America is immersed in a crisis of biblical illiteracy," Barna said. "How else can you describe matters when most churchgoing adults reject the accuracy of the Bible, reject the existence of Satan, claim that Jesus sinned, see no need to evangelize, believe that good works are one of the keys to persuading God to forgive their sins, and describe their commitment to Christianity as moderate or even less firm?"
The study determined that evangelicals are scarce. Barna defines "evangelicals" as a subset of "born again" believers - those who say their faith is very important in their lives, believe they have a responsibility to witness to non-Christians, acknowledge the existence of Satan, contend that eternal salvation is possible only through God's grace and not good deeds, believe that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life on earth, and describe God as the all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect deity who created the universe and still rules it today.
Those who fit in such a category include only 8 percent of adults.
Fourteen percent of Baptists qualified as evangelicals, compared to 33 percent from Assemblies of God churches, 29 percent from nondenominational churches and 27 percent from Pentecostal churches. Only 1 percent of Catholics and 1 percent of Episcopalians could be classified as evangelicals.
"The most disappointing finding of the report is the loss of doctrinal clarity among evangelicals," Mohler told the Witness. "We have come to expect doctrinal compromise in the liberal denominations, but we now see the same process at work among those who call themselves evangelicals. The Barna report helpfully defines evangelicals by beliefs - not by denominational membership, etc. For too many 'evangelicals,' all that remains is emotional fervor and religious participation - not the living faith founded upon the truth of the Gospel."
Roberts said one solution to such biblical illiteracy lies in pastors' diligence in preaching truth and in their willingness to go house to house, if necessary, to inquire about each person's spiritual condition.
"The church needs to take seriously its shepherding role," he said.
Mohler added that all Baptists should be alarmed at what the study reveals.
"The Barna report is a warning of what is to come, if these trends are not reversed," Mohler said.
The study's results came from telephone interviews with a nationwide random sample of 6,038 adults.
This article reprinted by permission from SBCLife
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