How many “churches” are there?

[daninthelionsden]

No the holy of holies represented heaven and the veil the fact that heaven was closed due to the sin of Adam, Christ’s atonement opened heaven signified by the veil being torn top to bottom there is no reason to see it involving the old covenant priesthood, and Christ is high priest and that requires low priests of the same order in obedience to His authority!

Who are these low priests?

Thanks

Parasites?

 

[donadams]

Parasites?

No!

The Mosaic covenant had two priesthoods:

Arron and His successors: high priests over the low ( ministerial order) priests, the Levites:

The common priesthood of the people: ex 19:6

There are two new covenant priesthoods: priesthood in scripture is plural.

“Jesus Christ is high priest of the (ministerial) order of melchisedec”.
acts 10:14
heb 5:1
heb 8:1
heb 8:3


Ministerial priesthood: “apostles & their successors, and those they ordain” “low priests” under the authority of Christ the “high priest”!

With priestly ministry:
Mk 3:14 “ordained”
Matt 22:14 Jn 15:16 “chosen” “ordained”
Jn 20:21 “sent by Christ with His authority”
Jn 20:23 “power to forgive sins”
Acts 1:8 “anointing with power”
acts 1:15-26 “ministry / bishop”
Acts 2:38-39 “administered sacraments”
acts 14:23 “ordained”
Acts 16:4 “ordained “
Rom 15:16 “minister / sanctify”
1 cor 9:14 “ordained”
1 Tim 2:7 “ordained”
1 Tim 3:1-2 “bishop”
1 Tim 4:14 “priest” “priestly ministry”
Phil 1:1 “bishops deacons”
James 5:14 “anointing with oil”

The ministerial priesthood acts in “the person of Christ” so it is Christ who acts thru them vicariously.
2 cor 2:10 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24


Royal priesthood: “baptized members of Jesus Christ”
1 pet 2:5-9


Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new and eternal covenant!

The new covenant was a reformation of the mosaic covenant so it has many similarities. Heb 9:10
Heb 10:9

Old Israel:

Ex 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

New Israel:

1 pet 2:5-9
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Apostles / bishops were ordained priests by Jesus Christ at the last supper: 1 cor 11:24-26
do this in memory of me. offer this in memory of me, the Passover was a sacrifice. Ex 12:27 1 cor 5:6-8

Worship:

Adoration: rev 7-12
Propitiatory reparation: Jn 1:29
rom 3:25 1 Jn 2:2 1 Jn 4:10
1 Jn 2:2 1 Jn 4:10
Thanksgiving: Phil 4:6
Petition: Phil 4:6

Spirit and truth:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Offering the eternal sacrifice of Christ for the salvation of all men!


There are two parts of the priesthood in the new covenant church:

In the order of Melchisedec,
Christ high priest:

His apostles low priests: or
Ministerial priesthood:

and the royal priesthood of Christians.

Christ is Eternal priest:

Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Christ is High priest:

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Low priests / priesthood:

There must be low priests in the same order for a high priest to be over them. And the word in scripture “priesthood” is plural.

Jn 20:21-23 apostles have authority to forgive sins.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Christians must practice the virtues of Jesus Christ not the vices of the devils.

Humility and never Pride!

Obedience and never Rebellion!

Christians cannot be the children of disobedience but as the children of God in humble submission and obedience! Thy will be done!

Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Good ideas, but how can you ignore Jesus' words... "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father which is in heaven " (Matt 23:9), and adhere to your exhortations ?
And how can sinners call themselves children of God ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Christ does not need Peter to fill in but he ordains things to be that very way, to govern the church!

You might say Christ does not need the apostles to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation, but he chose them and ordained them and commanded them do so! Matt 28:19

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!

They have authority to send others as well until Christ returns in glory!

apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!

Thanks

Peter to follow

You have ceded authority to the usurpers.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Peter’s the Rock! / Peter’s first

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

3rd time for Peter to receive “spirit baptism”! He must be special for some reason! Jn 20:22 acts 2:4



1 pet 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.


No reason to give the person of Peter the keys of the kingdom, “Thee outward sign” of jurisdictional authority if not to govern and administer the kingdom until Christ returns in glory!


Why is Peter even mentioned?
Why does Jesus change His name?
Why does Jesus say Peter is blessed?
Why does Jesus give Peter the keys of the kingdom (jurisdictional authority)
Why does Jesus give Peter power to bind and loose?
Why does scripture say God chose Peter? Acts 15:7
What does Peter standing up signify? Acts 1:15 & 15:7


Matt 16:17
Jesus declares Peter’s person not confession to be blessed!

Peter is the rock chosen by God!

Peter’s person is blessed and chosen not Peter’s confession?

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

God chose Peter!

Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Is Peter’s person blessed or Peter’s confession?
Does Peter’s confession or Peter’s person receive divine revelation?

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

When God changes a man’s name abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel or Simon to Peter it signifies an office!

Is Peter’s person or Peter’s confession who’s name is changed?

And! Peter and rock are the same!

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Does Christ gives the keys to Peter’s person or Peter’s confession?

Does Christ give the power to bind and loose to Peter’s person or to a confession?

Did the Father send Christ or a confession of Christ?

Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!

Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ!

Christ sends Peter not his confession!

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter alone, and instructed peter to minister to the other apostles

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

First and chief apostle!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles in the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 10:44
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 16:18-19

15 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matt 16:15-18)
The rock of the false church is Peter.
The gates of hell have prevailed over it since its inception.
The rock of the real church is the fact that Jesus is the Son of God.
The real church is as spotless now as it was on day one

 

[donadams]

Good ideas, but how can you ignore Jesus' words... "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father which is in heaven " (Matt 23:9), and adhere to your exhortations ?
And how can sinners call themselves children of God ?

Jesus was not condemning calling men father but he was condemning vice spiritual pride of the Pharisees

Eph 3:
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

 

[donadams]

You have ceded authority to the usurpers.

Christ did Jn 20:21 same authority as Christ!

 

[donadams]

15 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matt 16:15-18)
The rock of the false church is Peter.
The gates of hell have prevailed over it since its inception.
The rock of the real church is the fact that Jesus is the Son of God.
The real church is as spotless now as it was on day one

Only invisible and spiritual?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Jesus was not condemning calling men father but he was condemning vice spiritual pride of the Pharisees

Eph 3:
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

The same could be said about the spiritual pride of the catholic priests.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Christ did Jn 20:21 same authority as Christ!

Just because they were sent by Jesus doesn't men they are Jesus.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Only invisible and spiritual?

I don't know what you are referring to.

 

[donadams]

The same could be said about the spiritual pride of the catholic priests.

I agree they must be humble

 

[donadams]

Just because they were sent by Jesus doesn't men they are Jesus.

What does that scripture say? As the father sent me, how did the father send Christ? Same

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!

They have authority to send others as well until Christ returns in glory!

 

[donadams]

I don't know what you are referring to.

That’s a question? Do you believe it’s only invisible and

The same could be said about the spiritual pride of the catholic priests.

T

Good ideas, but how can you ignore Jesus' words... "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father which is in heaven " (Matt 23:9), and adhere to your exhortations ?
And how can sinners call themselves children of God ?

what name is given to the ruler in Isa 22:21-22?

 

[daninthelionsden]

No!

The Mosaic covenant had two priesthoods:

Arron and His successors: high priests over the low ( ministerial order) priests, the Levites:

The common priesthood of the people: ex 19:6

There are two new covenant priesthoods: priesthood in scripture is plural.

“Jesus Christ is high priest of the (ministerial) order of melchisedec”.
acts 10:14
heb 5:1
heb 8:1
heb 8:3


Ministerial priesthood: “apostles & their successors, and those they ordain” “low priests” under the authority of Christ the “high priest”!

With priestly ministry:
Mk 3:14 “ordained”
Matt 22:14 Jn 15:16 “chosen” “ordained”
Jn 20:21 “sent by Christ with His authority”
Jn 20:23 “power to forgive sins”
Acts 1:8 “anointing with power”
acts 1:15-26 “ministry / bishop”
Acts 2:38-39 “administered sacraments”
acts 14:23 “ordained”
Acts 16:4 “ordained “
Rom 15:16 “minister / sanctify”
1 cor 9:14 “ordained”
1 Tim 2:7 “ordained”
1 Tim 3:1-2 “bishop”
1 Tim 4:14 “priest” “priestly ministry”
Phil 1:1 “bishops deacons”
James 5:14 “anointing with oil”

The ministerial priesthood acts in “the person of Christ” so it is Christ who acts thru them vicariously.
2 cor 2:10 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24


Royal priesthood: “baptized members of Jesus Christ”
1 pet 2:5-9


Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new and eternal covenant!

The new covenant was a reformation of the mosaic covenant so it has many similarities. Heb 9:10
Heb 10:9

Old Israel:

Ex 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

New Israel:

1 pet 2:5-9
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Apostles / bishops were ordained priests by Jesus Christ at the last supper: 1 cor 11:24-26
do this in memory of me. offer this in memory of me, the Passover was a sacrifice. Ex 12:27 1 cor 5:6-8

Worship:

Adoration: rev 7-12
Propitiatory reparation: Jn 1:29
rom 3:25 1 Jn 2:2 1 Jn 4:10
1 Jn 2:2 1 Jn 4:10
Thanksgiving: Phil 4:6
Petition: Phil 4:6

Spirit and truth:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Offering the eternal sacrifice of Christ for the salvation of all men!


There are two parts of the priesthood in the new covenant church:

In the order of Melchisedec,
Christ high priest:

His apostles low priests: or
Ministerial priesthood:

and the royal priesthood of Christians.

Christ is Eternal priest:

Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Christ is High priest:

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Low priests / priesthood:

There must be low priests in the same order for a high priest to be over them. And the word in scripture “priesthood” is plural.

Jn 20:21-23 apostles have authority to forgive sins.

I understand the need within a church for administrative offices like treasurer or managers. School teachers, Bible teachers, groundskeepers, janitors/maintenance. I think the problem I have with large denominations is the plethora of priests, bishops etc with too much time on their hands whereby abuse creeps in and the inevitable cover up that follows.

 

[Hopeful 2]

What does that scripture say? As the father sent me, how did the father send Christ? Same

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Jesus' ministry was to die for the sins of mankind.
To make it possible for us to crucify the "flesh" and be raised with Him to walk in newness of life.

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!
Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!

Nobody is Christ's successor.

They have authority to send others as well until Christ returns in glory!

Agreed, but they don't have the right to be addressed as "father".

 

[Hopeful 2]

That’s a question? Do you believe it’s only invisible and

Is what invisible...the gates of hell, the real rock the real church is founded on...or the church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21) ?

what name is given to the ruler in Isa 22:21-22?

Eliakim, the burden of verse 25, of whom God says..."In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off: for the Lord hath spoken it.
"Cut off".

 

[donadams]

I understand the need within a church for administrative offices like treasurer or managers. School teachers, Bible teachers, groundskeepers, janitors/maintenance. I think the problem I have with large denominations is the plethora of priests, bishops etc with too much time on their hands whereby abuse creeps in and the inevitable cover up that follows.

The mission of Christ and his church is the “salvation of souls”!

 

[donadams]

Jesus' ministry was to die for the sins of mankind.
To make it possible for us to crucify the "flesh" and be raised with Him to walk in newness of life.

Nobody is Christ's successor.

Agreed, but they don't have the right to be addressed as "father".

Matt 28:19-20 I am with you (the apostles) until the end of the world
Acts 18: my witnesses to the end of the earth


Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, (apostles) who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, (apostles) and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

 

[donadams]

Jesus' ministry was to die for the sins of mankind.
To make it possible for us to crucify the "flesh" and be raised with Him to walk in newness of life.

Nobody is Christ's successor.

Agreed, but they don't have the right to be addressed as "father".

1 Corinthians 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye notmany fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

So we do have fathers