How many of us understand Grace?

[Bro.Tan]

Most people do not understand what grace is. All they will say is that I am under grace. Some will say grace is a free gift and that’s true. But, what is this free gift. The free gift (grace) is Jesus came and died for our sins and by coming under his blood; we have access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam by sinning took away in the garden of Eden. With out the Tree of life (Jesus) man was condemned to death, even the second death (the lake of fire). Jesus told us in the scripture, (Psalms: 69: 4) They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, beingmine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away…which is your grace (our access to Jesus). Our fore parents, Adam and Eve chose to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Satan), by listening to Satan, instead of God, he cost us are access to The Tree of Life. Paul said this in Roman 5: 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. Adam and Eve were put forth from the Garden of Eden and from the Tree of Life. Grace is no more than a free gift retained by keeping God’s Law. Lets go into (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. Paul says in Hebrew 10: (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Most people do not understand what grace is. All they will say is that I am under grace. Some will say grace is a free gift and that’s true. But, what is this free gift. The free gift (grace) is Jesus came and died for our sins and by coming under his blood; we have access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam by sinning took away in the garden of Eden. With out the Tree of life (Jesus) man was condemned to death, even the second death (the lake of fire). Jesus told us in the scripture, (Psalms: 69: 4) They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, beingmine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away…which is your grace (our access to Jesus). Our fore parents, Adam and Eve chose to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Satan), by listening to Satan, instead of God, he cost us are access to The Tree of Life. Paul said this in Roman 5: 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. Adam and Eve were put forth from the Garden of Eden and from the Tree of Life. Grace is no more than a free gift retained by keeping God’s Law. Lets go into (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. Paul says in Hebrew 10: (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

There are some false doctrines in here. The most obvious one is the underlined part. SDA's in particular believe this error. I can only surmise the reason.

So I take it to mean that you think grace is only for past sins? If so, is it one-time only? Or does grace take care of present and future unintentional sins? Does grace ever take care of any present or future intentional sins? If grace covered my past sins 45 years ago, can it cover all my past sins again today? If grace can't cover present or future sins, then what covers those? Without grace to cover our present or future sins, are we to assume we must be perfect after grace is initially given?

And concerning willful sins, have you never read 1 Corinthians 10:13?

13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. (1 Co 10:13)​

If with every temptation God provides a way out, a person chooses to not take the way of escape every time he succumbs to temptation. That sounds like intentional sin to me. Doesn't that convict you? I guess you'll need a better understanding of grace to address that.

 

[donadams]

Most people do not understand what grace is. All they will say is that I am under grace. Some will say grace is a free gift and that’s true. But, what is this free gift. The free gift (grace) is Jesus came and died for our sins and by coming under his blood; we have access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam by sinning took away in the garden of Eden. With out the Tree of life (Jesus) man was condemned to death, even the second death (the lake of fire). Jesus told us in the scripture, (Psalms: 69: 4) They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, beingmine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away…which is your grace (our access to Jesus). Our fore parents, Adam and Eve chose to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Satan), by listening to Satan, instead of God, he cost us are access to The Tree of Life. Paul said this in Roman 5: 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. Adam and Eve were put forth from the Garden of Eden and from the Tree of Life. Grace is no more than a free gift retained by keeping God’s Law. Lets go into (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. Paul says in Hebrew 10: (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Yes baptism washes away all past sins. Thanks

 

[donadams]

There are some false doctrines in here. The most obvious one is the underlined part. SDA's in particular believe this error. I can only surmise the reason.

So I take it to mean that you think grace is only for past sins? If so, is it one-time only? Or does grace take care of present and future unintentional sins? Does grace ever take care of any present or future intentional sins? If grace covered my past sins 45 years ago, can it cover all my past sins again today? If grace can't cover present or future sins, then what covers those? Without grace to cover our present or future sins, are we to assume we must be perfect after grace is initially given?

And concerning willful sins, have you never read 1 Corinthians 10:13?

13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. (1 Co 10:13)​

If with every temptation God provides a way out, a person chooses to not take the way of escape every time he succumbs to temptation. That sounds like intentional sin to me. Doesn't that convict you? I guess you'll need a better understanding of grace to address that.

All past sins are washed away in baptism sin after that must be repented of, confessed and then expiated by prayer and penance

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

All past sins are washed away in baptism sin after that must be repented of, confessed and then expiated by prayer and penance

Oh, that's a novel approach. A newborn baby can have all his past sins washed away by being sprinkled with water. But if he wants any of his future sins washed away, he must change his mind about it, tell a priest about it, and then pay for his sins by praying and punishing himself.

You know what's missing in all of this? The main thing is missing...

Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. (Heb 10:11–14)​

 

[donadams]

Oh, that's a novel approach. A newborn baby can have all his past sins washed away by being sprinkled with water. But if he wants any of his future sins washed away, he must change his mind about it, tell a priest about it, and then pay for his sins by praying and punishing himself.

You know what's missing in all of this? The main thing is missing...

Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. (Heb 10:11–14)​

Right pal the new covenant priest is different offering the sacrifice of christ

(Baptism)

Ez 36:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

(Repent confess)

Jn 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

(Penance)

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Thanks

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Right pal the new covenant priest is different offering the sacrifice of christ

(Baptism)

Ez 36:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

(Repent confess)

Jn 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

(Penance)

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Thanks

This reminds me of our past conversation(s). With very few exceptions, you point to man's responsibility to keep himself under God's grace. When questioned about a man's failures to do what is required of him, you then point to his responsibility to patricipate in sacraments (which you promote as the only path back to God's grace). Every attempt to point people directly to Jesus (for grace, forgiveness, salvation, wisdom, etc.) is met with you inserting your church inbetween God and man, as if God does not interact with people except through your church. Since this is obviously ludicrous (as most profoundly evident in the intimate personal relationship that everyone in whom He lives has with Him), it makes me wonder whether or not we can find agreement on anything.

 

[donadams]

This reminds me of our past conversation(s). With very few exceptions, you point to man's responsibility to keep himself under God's grace. When questioned about a man's failures to do what is required of him, you then point to his responsibility to patricipate in sacraments (which you promote as the only path back to God's grace). Every attempt to point people directly to Jesus (for grace, forgiveness, salvation, wisdom, etc.) is met with you inserting your church inbetween God and man, as if God does not interact with people except through your church. Since this is obviously ludicrous (as most profoundly evident in the intimate personal relationship that everyone in whom He lives has with Him), it makes me wonder whether or not we can find agreement on anything.

Not my church but the new covenant founded by christ for the salvation of all men!

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!


Thanks

 

[for_his_glory]

Simply put, God's grace is unmerited favor, God's willingness to give us His power and authority, even though we do not deserve it. It repented God that He made man and was about to destroy them, but by finding favor in Noah being a righteous man of faith, God gave all of us a chance to return back to Him.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

 

[Rookie]

There is a short definition and a long definition.

 

[donadams]

Simply put, God's grace is unmerited favor, God's willingness to give us His power and authority, even though we do not deserve it. It repented God that He made man and was about to destroy them, but by finding favor in Noah being a righteous man of faith, God gave all of us a chance to return back to Him.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Does not mention “faith”?

 

[donadams]

Mary had faith Lk 1:45
And found our salvation Lk 1:30

 

[for_his_glory]

Does not mention “faith”?

Not going to get into this with you, but to leave you with this scripture. Without faith in Christ we are none of His own.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[JLB]

Most people do not understand what grace is.

Grace is the God given ability granted to us unmerited, that enables us to do what we can not do on our own.

Grace is something and Someone.

Grace is the Holy Spirit; The Spirit of Grace.

Grace is imparted to us along with faith when we hear the word of God spoken to us.


For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:8

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, Titus 2:11

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:28-29



JLB

 

[donadams]

Not going to get into this with you, but to leave you with this scripture. Without faith in Christ we are none of His own.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Christ is not found in scripture until matt 1:1
Messiah until Daniel

 

[Tenchi]

Most people do not understand what grace is.

Do you know most people, then? That's an awful lot of people to know. Several billions.

All they will say is that I am under grace.

So, you mean Christians, then? Still, there are a great many Christians. Many millions, worldwide. Do you know many millions of Christians? Have you heard them say, "I am under grace"?

The free gift (grace) is Jesus came and died for our sins and by coming under his blood; we have access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam by sinning took away in the garden of Eden.

??? Jesus dying for our sins is an act of grace, a divine demonstration of divine grace, yes. But what do you mean by "coming under his blood"? And how are you connecting doing so to divine grace expressed to us through the cross of Christ?

I don't know of any place in Scripture where Jesus is called the "Tree of Life," nor does Scripture anywhere say that Adam took the Tree of Life out of Eden by way of his sin. Adam's sin ejected Adam from Eden, not the Tree of Life.

Some will say grace is a free gift and that’s true. But, what is this free gift.

The term "grace" has more than one meaning in Scripture. It may mean "undeserved favor and mercy," or it might mean "the condition resulting from grace," or "show gratitude," or "comeliness, a good appearance," etc. Grace, though, is not "a free gift," though it may produce a gift freely given. In other words, grace may prompt the giving of a gift, but it is not the gift itself. For example, Christ's sacrificial death on our behalf expresses divine grace but is not grace itself, which existed prior to the expression of grace and gives rise to that expression.

Jesus told us in the scripture, (Psalms: 69: 4) They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, beingmine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away…which is your grace (our access to Jesus).

Psalm 69:2-5
2 I have sunk in deep mire, and there is no foothold; I have come into deep waters, and a flood overflows me.
3 I am weary with my crying; my throat is parched; My eyes fail while I wait for my God.
4 Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies; What I did not steal, I then have to restore.
5 O God, it is You who knows my folly, And my wrongs are not hidden from You.

When the context of Psalm 69:4 is examined, it's pretty apparent that Jesus is not in view. Verse 5, in particular, excludes Christ as the object of the passage since he was never guilty of "folly" or of "wrongs." Instead, the Psalmist - David - is speaking of himself, not Jesus.

Our fore parents, Adam and Eve chose to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Satan), by listening to Satan, instead of God, he cost us are access to The Tree of Life.

Yes, Satan succeeded in drawing Adam and Eve into sin but the main effect of this wasn't to cut off humanity from the Tree of Life in the Garden, but to create a spiritual separation between Man and God that only the Atonement could remedy.

Adam and Eve were put forth from the Garden of Eden and from the Tree of Life.

You are making too much of the Tree of Life. As I pointed out, Jesus is never called the Tree of Life in Scripture.

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

Grace is no more than a free gift retained by keeping God’s Law.

??? You give no basis for making this sudden leap into legalism. If God's grace is earned through law-keeping, then it is not undeserved favor, which is how the Bible defines His grace extended to us in Christ Jesus. Instead, it is by law-keeping that we come to deserve, to have earned, God's grace. But Scripture denies this view quite directly.

Romans 11:5-6
5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Galatians 3:11-14
11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”
12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.”
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—
14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

Galatians 5:4-6
4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.

??? But when Jesus died for my sins, all of them were future sins. He died 2000 years ago, right? I don't, then, understand or agree with your statement here at all. And Scripture doesn't agree with what you've said here, either.

Romans 6:10
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

Hebrews 10:10-14
10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.
14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Hebrews 7:26-27
26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens;
27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

1 Peter 3:18
18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis.

??? Absolutely not! This is out-and-out legalism/works-salvation - both of which are antithetical to God's grace. God accepts none of us on the basis of the quality of our living, only on the basis of our having trusted in Christ as our Savior and Lord (Romans 10:9-10).

2 Timothy 1:9
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Titus 3:5-7
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Because our Salvation is in the Person of Christ and not in our works, our law-keeping, our salvation is secure. God always accepts Christ and so always accepts those who, by faith in him, are placed into him by the Holy Spirit and made "new creatures in Christ" (2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 1:1-13; Romans 8:9-16). And so, we read:

Hebrews 13:5-6
5 ...for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
6 So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper...”

Philippians 1:6
6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.

John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Romans 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
36 As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Jude 1:24-25
24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

 

[WIP]

This is how I understand grace. By definition it is unmerited favor. In terms of God's grace toward us it is His withholding our destruction for as Scripture says, we have all fallen short and all deserve death for the wages of our sin is death but in God's divine love toward us He has made a way for us to be free from the death we deserve not of ourselves but through His Son, Jesus. That is grace as I understand it.

 

[donadams]

??? You give no basis for making this sudden leap into legalism. If God's grace is earned through law-keeping, then it is not undeserved favor, which is how the Bible defines His grace extended to us in Christ Jesus. Instead, it is by law-keeping that we come to deserve, to have earned, God's grace. But Scripture denies this view quite directly.

Romans 11:5-6
5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Galatians 3:11-14
11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”
12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.”
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—
14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

Galatians 5:4-6
4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.



??? But when Jesus died for my sins, all of them were future sins. He died 2000 years ago, right? I don't, then, understand or agree with your statement here at all. And Scripture doesn't agree with what you've said here, either.

Romans 6:10
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

Hebrews 10:10-14
10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.
14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Hebrews 7:26-27
26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens;
27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

1 Peter 3:18
18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;



??? Absolutely not! This is out-and-out legalism/works-salvation - both of which are antithetical to God's grace. God accepts none of us on the basis of the quality of our living, only on the basis of our having trusted in Christ as our Savior and Lord (Romans 10:9-10).

2 Timothy 1:9
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Titus 3:5-7
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Because our Salvation is in the Person of Christ and not in our works, our law-keeping, our salvation is secure. God always accepts Christ and so always accepts those who, by faith in him, are placed into him by the Holy Spirit and made "new creatures in Christ" (2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 1:1-13; Romans 8:9-16). And so, we read:

Hebrews 13:5-6
5 ...for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
6 So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper...”

Philippians 1:6
6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.

John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Romans 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
36 As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Jude 1:24-25
24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

Then our salvation is in our “faith keeping”?

Still something we must choose and do

Thks

 

[Tenchi]

Then our salvation is in our “faith keeping”?

Still something we must choose and do

If our salvation is in any way located in us, in what we do, then we are our own saviors, or, at least, co-saviors with Jesus Christ, which is, as far as I'm concerned, a blasphemous idea. Our faith puts us in the position to be saved by Jesus, the One and Only Savior, but it is not the means of our salvation any more than my faith in my dentist to fix my teeth is what actually fixes my teeth. With every fiber of my being, I can trust the ability of my dentist to fix my teeth, doing so for weeks, or months, or even years, but if he doesn't actually fix my teeth, my faith in his skill helps my teeth not one bit. My faith merely puts me in position to have my teeth fixed by my dentist; my faith in him isn't what fixes my teeth. So, too with my Savior, Jesus Christ. My belief in him, my faith in his saving work, just puts me in position to be saved by him, not by my faith.