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How much is enough?

Cygnus said:
As we should. BUT, and a big BUT...is motivation.
The OSNAS sect "works" to remain saved. They work with the hopes of saving their own soul.....while the OSAS work for the glory of God.
Click to expand...

God has required the Christian to do good works, so it's not a matter of choice, motivation or desire on part of the Christian.
Not doing good works and the Christian will be lost, no OSAS.
Therefore doing good works is what keeps the Christian saved and by doing those good works God has REQUIRED, the Christian is "working out his salvation" in that sense.

cygnus said:
Part 2:
A christian does good works as a result..or by-product...of their salvation. Not a means of obtaining it or substaining it.
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It takes OBEDIENT works in believing, repenting, confessing and submitting to baptism to become saved.
After becoming a Christian it takes good works to remain in that saved position for doing good works is required by God and not an option the Christian can take or leave.

For one who has already obeyed the gospel and become a Christian, then he must do good works to remain saved as taking care of his family for if one refuses to do this good work---"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." 1 Timothy 5:8. So good works as providing for ones family must be done to keep the Christian saved else he become lost, denied the faith, worse than an infidel.

Matthew 25:31-46 is a picture of judgment day where disciples were separated, those that did good works were saved, those that lacked them were lost.

cygnus said:
Part 3:
If a christian does not perform "works" they remain saved. Why they would profess to be a christian and not work to glorify the Lord is beyond me. But, their loss isn't salvation. Their loss is rewards.
1 Cor 3:15 If the work of anyone will be burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.
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You posted "If a christian does not perform "works" they remain saved." Yet Eph 2:10 says God before ordained Christians walk in good works. So now the man made teaching of OSAS can undo, thwart what God has before ordained? Your misinterpretation of 1 Cor 3:15 creates a contradiction with Eph 2:10. God did not contradict Himself or thwart his own pre-determination in Eph 2:10 with another verse in 1 Cor. 3.


If a person becomes a Christian for many years, faithful in worship attendance, having bible studies, leading others to becoming Christians yet one day runs off with his new neighbors wife living in adultery and dies that way.

The contradiction that among OSASers with their misinterpretation, misapplication of two verses. Some OSASers turn to 1 John 2:19 and claim this man was never really saved to begin with
Other OSASers turn to 1 Cor 3 and claim he will still be saved but his sinful works will be burned up.

He cannot be both at the same time saved anyway and never saved. An obvious contradiction among OSASers for misapplying both passages.

In the context of 1 Cor 3, the "works" Paul speaks about are converts Paul calls those Corinthian converts his "work" in the Lord, 1 Corinthians 9:1.

In the context of 1 cor 3, Paul is using a metaphor in building a building and building the church. Paul says to these Corinthians "ye are God's building" and calls himself a "wise masterbuilder". In building a building one lays the foundation and builds upon on that foundation and building is only as strong as the materials used, whether gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble. Likewise building the church one builds the foundation by working to make the initial converts as Paul did in Corinth. Other came behind Paul (as Apollos) and built upon that foundation by working to make more converts. So the 'work" involved in building the church is the work in make converts.

On judgment day one's work (convert) will be judged...."Every man's work (convert) shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is."

If a man's work/convert abides, then he shall receive a reward for having made that convert.

If a man's convert is burned, then the man himself shall suffer a sense of loss (as Paul did with the Galatians - Galatians 4:11 that fell from grace, Galatians 5:4) yet the man himself will be saved if he remains faithful (1 Corinthians 9:27).

To try and make 1 Cor 3 say a Christians sinful works will be burned but he will still be saved:
1) contradicts passages as Galatians 5:19-21 that says one sinful works keeps him from inheriting the kingdom of God.
2) there was no need for Christ dying on the cross and shedding His blood so that blood can wash away sin if the CHristian can sin all he cares to , die in those sins and just simply have those sinful works 'burned away' on judgment day instead of washed away by the blood of Christ.
 
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Seabass said:
God has required the Christian to do good works, so it's not a matter of choice, motivation or desire on part of the Christian.
Not doing good works and the Christian will be lost, no OSAS.
Therefore doing good works is what keeps the Christian saved and by doing those good works God has REQUIRED, the Christian is "working out his salvation" in that sense.
Click to expand...

That's why we were created in the first place. To do good works for God.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.../

And if we choose to not walk in it and to be obedient to what He said...we may just hear one day...I never knew you.
 
Edward said:
That's why we were created in the first place. To do good works for God.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.../

And if we choose to not walk in it and to be obedient to what He said...we may just hear one day...I never knew you.
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Yes, therefore those good works a Christian does do play a role in the Christian's salvation in remaining in a saved state. So salvation is conditional upon doing those good works and not unconditional as OSAS claims it is.
 
Seabass said:
God has required the Christian to do good works, so it's not a matter of choice, motivation or desire on part of the Christian.
Not doing good works and the Christian will be lost, no OSAS.
Therefore doing good works is what keeps the Christian saved and by doing those good works God has REQUIRED, the Christian is "working out his salvation" in that sense.
Click to expand...

Not my Jesus.

just for the record, you're already lost then. I honestly pity your belief.
 
Cygnus said:
Nothing. You can't even repent or call on the name of the Lord unless God allows you to do so.

It's all Christ Jesus...none of you.
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This dovetails into our other conversation.

God has granted all men the ability to repent(Believe on Him).

Yes, it is all Jesus Christ.............He made the playing field equal for all men. He granted all men the ability to become hungry and thirsty and the ability to eat and drink to satisfy those needs.

He has granted all men the ability to want eternal life and to believe on Him to fill that void.

Ecc 3:11~~New American Standard Bible
He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.

John 12:32~~New American Standard Bible
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

Rom 1:19~~New American Standard Bible
because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

John 3:16 is not hidden and ALL men have the God given ability to believe it. At ANY time.

2 Cor 6:2~~New American Standard Bible
for He says, "AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU, AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU." Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME," behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION "--
 
gr8grace3 said:
This dovetails into our other conversation.

God has granted all men the ability to repent(Believe on Him).

Yes, it is all Jesus Christ.............He made the playing field equal for all men. He granted all men the ability to become hungry and thirsty and the ability to eat and drink to satisfy those needs.

He has granted all men the ability to want eternal life and to believe on Him to fill that void.

Ecc 3:11~~New American Standard Bible
He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.

John 12:32~~New American Standard Bible
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

Rom 1:19~~New American Standard Bible
because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

John 3:16 is not hidden and ALL men have the God given ability to believe it. At ANY time.

2 Cor 6:2~~New American Standard Bible
for He says, "AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU, AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU." Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME," behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION "--
Click to expand...

I can see misinterpretation after misinterpretation...scripture yanked out of context.

The question you guys need to answer is why would a person choose Jesus or reject Jesus? That is the question you need to reply to.
 
Cygnus said:
I can see misinterpretation after misinterpretation...scripture yanked out of context.

The question you guys need to answer is why would a person choose Jesus or reject Jesus? That is the question you need to reply to.
Click to expand...
Because Jesus Christ gave us freewill.:yes
 
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