How strong is your belief in God?

[Guest]

The poll attached with this question is a reproduction of a scale for self-describing the strength of religious convictions presented in Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion.

My faith is more complex than a point on a one-dimensional scale. Though, given your source, I am not surprised it would be overly simplistic.

 

[follower of Christ]

I have very strong responses, especially to follower of Christ, but they will have to wait till tomorrow. Eyelids are shutting involuntarily... zzzzzzzzz

I'll be more than happy to respond, but I think we both know you arent going to be happy with the responses

 

[follower of Christ]

There is no room for doubt in the eyes of a true believer in Christ.

I believe in Christ, and I have doubts. I guess that makes me a 'false' believer in Christ. Does that mean I go to 'false' heaven or 'false' hell?

How can you REALLY believe in something and also doubt that it is ?
That sort of belief isnt belief at all...its a contradiction.

 

[follower of Christ]

The poll attached with this question is a reproduction of a scale for self-describing the strength of religious convictions presented in Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion.

My faith is more complex than a point on a one-dimensional scale. Though, given your source, I am not surprised it would be overly simplistic.

Huh.
I see no problem with the scale at all.
#1 is true faith and belief in God. The rest are riddled with unbelief and doubt, thus arent TRUE belief.

 

[Guest]

I believe in Christ, and I have doubts.

How can you REALLY believe in something and also doubt that it is ?
That sort of belief isnt belief at all...its a contradiction.

It is sort of like still choosing to drive a car when you doubt mechanical things.

 

[Guest]

I see no problem with the scale at all.

I would expect no less. You, like Richard Dawkins, adhere to an unsophisticated perspective on faith.

 

[JoJo]

There is no room for doubt in the eyes of a true believer in Christ.

I believe in Christ, and I have doubts. I guess that makes me a 'false' believer in Christ. Does that mean I go to 'false' heaven or 'false' hell?

How can you believe in something but also doubt it? Is that truly believing?

 

[Gabe]

My faith in Christ is strong, as it usually is for someone who converts from Islam to Christianity. If people consider my faith to be false, it does not bother me. I chose option 2. I'm not riddled with unbelief and doubt, I'm just not all-knowing and acknowledge I could be wrong.

 

[Guest]

How can you believe in something but also doubt it? Is that truly believing?

We all live with uncertainty.

 

[JoJo]

My faith in Christ is strong, as it usually is for someone who converts from Islam to Christianity. If people consider my faith to be false, it does not bother me. I chose option 2. I'm not riddled with unbelief and doubt, I'm just not all-knowing and acknowledge I could be wrong.

Dear sweet Gabe, acknowledging that you could be wrong, whether you are riddled with it or not, is doubt. Where there is the slightest doubt, there is no fullness of faith. Faith is knowing, faith is seeing what can't be seen, faith is putting aside all doubt and allowing yourself the freedom to believe!

Oh my dear friends, I am not accusing anyone of having "false" faith. That is not for me to judge. But the truth is, there is no room for doubt when it comes to faith in God.

Do you believe or don't you? If you say yes, you are saying yes 100%. Anything less than that is not a true yes. It's just logic.

 

[JoJo]

How can you believe in something but also doubt it? Is that truly believing?

We all live with uncertainty.

You don't answer my question. I ask again, Is that truly believing?

 

[Guest]

Do you believe or don't you? If you say yes, you are saying yes 100%. Anything less than that is not a true yes. It's just logic.

It logically follows within a given framework. We do not share this framework.

 

[Guest]

How can you believe in something but also doubt it? Is that truly believing?

We all live with uncertainty.

You don't answer my question. I ask again, Is that truly believing?

It does answer the question, but not within your framework.

If we do not believe (i.e., have doubt or lack 100% certainty) that we will return home safely from a drive about in an automobile, why do we do it?

 

[JoJo]

Is your house built on a rock or sand?

 

[JoJo]

If we do not believe (i.e., have doubt or lack 100% certainty) that we will return home safely from a drive about in an automobile, why do we do it?

We take that chance. It's a risk. Your analogy is irrelevant.

 

[JoJo]

If we do not believe (i.e., have doubt or lack 100% certainty) that we will return home safely from a drive about in an automobile, why do we do it?

You just said it yourself: "if we do not believe (i.e. have doubt or lack 100% certainty)..." If we do not believe....

 

[Guest]

We take that chance. It's a risk.

And how is that logical? If you do not believe you will return home safely, why on Earth would you drive a car?

Your analogy is irrelevant.

It allows us to see the contrast between your narrow (either/or) perspective, and my broad (both/and) + narrow (either/or) perspective.

 

[Guest]

If we do not believe (i.e., have doubt or lack 100% certainty) that we will return home safely from a drive about in an automobile, why do we do it?

You just said it yourself: "if we do not believe (i.e. have doubt or lack 100% certainty)..." If we do not believe....

Except, I am working within your framework to show the internal inconsistencies between belief and practice. To simplify my abstraction, I am putting myself in your shoes. Then, I am thinking about what it's like to be in your shoes. And I am finding that in your shoes, there are logical contradictions which result between what one believes and what one practices.

 

[JoJo]

We take that chance. It's a risk.

And how is that logical? If you do not believe you will return home safely, why on Earth would you drive a car?

Your analogy is irrelevant.

It allows us to see the contrast between your narrow (either/or) perspective, and my broad (both/and) + narrow (either/or) perspective.

I don't "believe" riding in a car is safe. If I ride in a car, it's because I feel I must for some reason or another. But to be quite honest, I get nervous as can be just about anytime I get in a moving vehicle. My best friend was killed in a car accident. And frankly I wouldn't mind returning to the days of horse and buggy. And I still don't see how the analogy has anything to do with what we are talking about here. Please don't try to explain, though. It's apparently gone over my head.

You may find my perspective narrow, but logic dictates that when you declare your belief in something you are declaring the absence of doubt. You either believe or you don't believe. Anything less than 100% is wishy-washy and a house built on sand.

 

[JoJo]

If we do not believe (i.e., have doubt or lack 100% certainty) that we will return home safely from a drive about in an automobile, why do we do it?

You just said it yourself: "if we do not believe (i.e. have doubt or lack 100% certainty)..." If we do not believe....

Except, I am working within your framework to show the internal inconsistencies between belief and practice. To simplify my abstraction, I am putting myself in your shoes. Then, I am thinking about what it's like to be in your shoes. And I am finding that in your shoes, there are logical contradictions which result between what one believes and what one practices.

Huh?

You're doing an excellent job of distracting the witness because I haven't a clue what you're talking about. I feel like I'm trying to stay afloat in a sea of complexities when the subject at hand is quite simple: You either believe or you don't believe.