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How we could sin against the Holy Spirit

the sin unto death in various places may or may not mean the same ; Yhwh knows and the answer rests with Him and with those to whom He reveals it at His Pleasure.
whether someone knows or admits that they made a mistake in rejecting Yeshua HaMaschiach also rests with Yhwh. did the ones to whom Yeshua says on judgment day "begone from Me" know or not know before they died ? in Scripture they act surprised/as if they still didn't know/ that they are condemned.

cheap grace has been a term around for several decades at least. a better term might be false grace - as when Yhwh's Word says someone expected a Promise from Yhwh, a Promise that Yhwh made and gave with conditions, and they did not fulfill the conditions but still expected the Promise. or more difficult to see, when they worship Him with their lips (in hypocrisy and falsehood), but their hearts are far from Him. He sees everything and cannot be tricked by a fake confession or fake and false worship.
 
the sin unto death in various places may or may not mean the same ; Yhwh knows and the answer rests with Him and with those to whom He reveals it at His Pleasure.
whether someone knows or admits that they made a mistake in rejecting Yeshua HaMaschiach also rests with Yhwh. did the ones to whom Yeshua says on judgment day "begone from Me" know or not know before they died ? in Scripture they act surprised/as if they still didn't know/ that they are condemned.

cheap grace has been a term around for several decades at least. a better term might be false grace - as when Yhwh's Word says someone expected a Promise from Yhwh, a Promise that Yhwh made and gave with conditions, and they did not fulfill the conditions but still expected the Promise. or more difficult to see, when they worship Him with their lips (in hypocrisy and falsehood), but their hearts are far from Him. He sees everything and cannot be tricked by a fake confession or fake and false worship.
Do you think somehow Moses committed a different sin unto death than others. He was told to go up the mount and die, and that's what I am referring to. Why? Because he didn't believe God. What others were you referring to?

On your response concerning cheap grace I can only guess that you're writing of them that never receive Christ as their Savior.
 
'cheap grace' may be found in believers and in unbelievers, truly saved and not saved - it may be a sin unto death, and it may be a belief someone holds until they die because they refuse the truth and continually reject the Messiah Yeshua. it may or may not refer to the multitudes of pagans who were officially made part of the church against their will, i don't know- never entered my mind before the last minute.

concerning the sin unto death, there are several in Scripture, and many perhaps may be seen in our lifetime. the best truthful, tested, Biblically accurate summary I've ever seen is in
'Overcoming Death' by Watchman Nee - (freely distributed)
"The Word has not spelled out concretely what this sin is. It only assures us that such a sin is possible. From the Scripture records we understand that this sin varies according to people. A particular sin for some is mortal, yet to another person it may not be a sin unto death, and vice versa. This is because of differences in grace received, light accepted, and position attained among different believers.

While the Bible never identifies this sin, we can nevertheless observe that any sin which results in death constitutes a mortal one. The people of Israel committed such a sin at Kadesh (Num. 13.25-14.12). Although they had tempted the Lord many times before (14.22), He always simply forgave them. But this time, though He still forgave them after they refused to enter Canaan, He additional caused their bodies to fall in death in the wilderness (14.32).

At the waters of Meribah Moses was provoked to speak “words that were rash” (Ps. 106.33) : this was his “mortal sin”: he died outside Canaan. Aaron committed the same offense as Moses and he likewise was forbidden to enter the holy land (Num. 20.24). The man of God who journeyed from Judah to Bethel disobeyed the commandment of the Lord with regard to eating and drinking; in so doing he committed his mortal sin (1 Kings 13.21-22). In the New Testament we learn how Ananias and Sapphira were punished with death because they committed what for them was their mortal sin, because they attempted to lie to the Holy Spirit by keeping back part of the proceeds from their land (Acts 5). The man in Corinth who lived with his father’s wife was guilty too of this kind of sin, forcing the Apostle Paul to pronounce judgment by telling those at Corinth “to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh” (1 Cor. 5.5). Not a few of the brethren in Corinth died because they were guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord (1 Cor. 11.27,30). They had committed the sin unto death.

To overcome mortality we must persistently overcome sin, for the former results from the latter. If we wish to live till our days are accomplished or till the Lord returns, we should be careful not to sin. Negligence in this has driven many to the grave prematurely. The mortal sin is not any particular terrifying transgression, because it is nowhere fixed or specified. Such a sin as fornication, of which the Corinthians were guilty, may be counted as mortal; but so too may rash words such as Moses uttered become a sin unto death (for note how the Scriptures characterized Moses: “now the man Moses was very meek, more than all men that were on the face of the earth” Num. 12.3; therefore no sin could be overlooked in this man’s life).
Now is the day of grace. God is full of grace. So let our hearts be comforted. Do not allow Satan to accuse you, hinting that you have committed the mortal sin and hence must die. Although the Bible does not encourage us to pray for others who have sinned this mortal sin, God will forgive us if we judge ourselves and genuinely repent. The man in 2 Corinthians 2.6-7 is believed by many to be that very one who had lived with his father’s wife. In 1 Corinthians 11.30-32 we also are reminded that even though we may have committed the sin unto death, we can nevertheless escape death if we judge ourselves truly. Therefore never permit any sin to reign in your body lest it become your mortal sin. Our flesh can be weakened, yet we must never lose the heart of self-judgment. We must judge our sin without mercy."
 
'cheap grace' may be found in believers and in unbelievers, truly saved and not saved - it may be a sin unto death, and it may be a belief someone holds until they die because they refuse the truth and continually reject the Messiah Yeshua. it may or may not refer to the multitudes of pagans who were officially made part of the church against their will, i don't know- never entered my mind before the last minute.

concerning the sin unto death, there are several in Scripture, and many perhaps may be seen in our lifetime. the best truthful, tested, Biblically accurate summary I've ever seen is in
'Overcoming Death' by Watchman Nee - (freely distributed)
"The Word has not spelled out concretely what this sin is. It only assures us that such a sin is possible. From the Scripture records we understand that this sin varies according to people. A particular sin for some is mortal, yet to another person it may not be a sin unto death, and vice versa. This is because of differences in grace received, light accepted, and position attained among different believers.

While the Bible never identifies this sin, we can nevertheless observe that any sin which results in death constitutes a mortal one. The people of Israel committed such a sin at Kadesh (Num. 13.25-14.12). Although they had tempted the Lord many times before (14.22), He always simply forgave them. But this time, though He still forgave them after they refused to enter Canaan, He additional caused their bodies to fall in death in the wilderness (14.32).

At the waters of Meribah Moses was provoked to speak “words that were rash” (Ps. 106.33) : this was his “mortal sin”: he died outside Canaan. Aaron committed the same offense as Moses and he likewise was forbidden to enter the holy land (Num. 20.24). The man of God who journeyed from Judah to Bethel disobeyed the commandment of the Lord with regard to eating and drinking; in so doing he committed his mortal sin (1 Kings 13.21-22). In the New Testament we learn how Ananias and Sapphira were punished with death because they committed what for them was their mortal sin, because they attempted to lie to the Holy Spirit by keeping back part of the proceeds from their land (Acts 5). The man in Corinth who lived with his father’s wife was guilty too of this kind of sin, forcing the Apostle Paul to pronounce judgment by telling those at Corinth “to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh” (1 Cor. 5.5). Not a few of the brethren in Corinth died because they were guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord (1 Cor. 11.27,30). They had committed the sin unto death.

To overcome mortality we must persistently overcome sin, for the former results from the latter. If we wish to live till our days are accomplished or till the Lord returns, we should be careful not to sin. Negligence in this has driven many to the grave prematurely. The mortal sin is not any particular terrifying transgression, because it is nowhere fixed or specified. Such a sin as fornication, of which the Corinthians were guilty, may be counted as mortal; but so too may rash words such as Moses uttered become a sin unto death (for note how the Scriptures characterized Moses: “now the man Moses was very meek, more than all men that were on the face of the earth” Num. 12.3; therefore no sin could be overlooked in this man’s life).
Now is the day of grace. God is full of grace. So let our hearts be comforted. Do not allow Satan to accuse you, hinting that you have committed the mortal sin and hence must die. Although the Bible does not encourage us to pray for others who have sinned this mortal sin, God will forgive us if we judge ourselves and genuinely repent. The man in 2 Corinthians 2.6-7 is believed by many to be that very one who had lived with his father’s wife. In 1 Corinthians 11.30-32 we also are reminded that even though we may have committed the sin unto death, we can nevertheless escape death if we judge ourselves truly. Therefore never permit any sin to reign in your body lest it become your mortal sin. Our flesh can be weakened, yet we must never lose the heart of self-judgment. We must judge our sin without mercy."
Believing I understood your post I liked it. If you'll notice, the man in 1 Cor 5:5 was forgiven after a time and forgiven according to 2 Cor 2:1-13.
 
Speaking a word against the "Son of Man" (emphasis on humanity) is NOT blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
...
It's possible that our Lord looked upon the Children of Israel with such grace so as to gently admonish them against continuing down that path for there lies nothing but ruin. Jesus knew they were talking of Him and that they really didn't like the things that He was saying. And He knew they went too far when they suggested that he had an unclean spirit.

I'm thinking that Jesus wasn't delivering a scathing rebuke but instead was warning them off from something. When the source of evil-speaking against Christ is ignorance, misconception, or ill-informed prejudice, then that blasphemy is as pardonable as any sin. ...

... The so-called leaders He not only delivered a scathing rebuke, but condemned them. He did not give them any excuse, nor anyone else, for committing the sin He told them directly they were judged for....

follower You are known for your strong opinions.
 
Believing I understood your post I liked it. If you'll notice, the man in 1 Cor 5:5 was forgiven after a time and forgiven according to 2 Cor 2:1-13.

?
some are saved, some are not saved. Yeshua always spoke what Abba gave Him to speak. He didn't speak anything on His Own initiative/from Himself. Even the emissary Paul proclaimed(or stated/wrote) that he would gladly give up his own life for his fellow Jews to be saved if he could.
 
follower You are known for your strong opinions.

as posted elsewhere, when we were crucified with Christ, opinions were too.

if believers learned to leave them crucified, there'd be a lot more communion and union in Yeshua visibly.

Yhwh and Yeshua and the ekklesia in the Scripture New Testament didn't beat around the bush or ignore the wolves or ignore the antichrist, and they routinely encouraged AND chastised one another as Yeshua taught them to. just like "spare the rod, spoil the child" is true, so too (i think it's in Hebrews) the children who live without discipline/chastisement are not sons at all, but (censored).
 
as posted elsewhere, when we were crucified with Christ, opinions were too.

... and they routinely encouraged AND chastised one another as Yeshua taught them to. just like "spare the rod, spoil the child" is true, so too (i think it's in Hebrews) the children who live without discipline/chastisement are not sons at all, but (censored).

Now you've lost me again. Who are you speaking about precisely when you mention those who live without discipline and/or chastisement? I mentioned that you have very strong opinions. You state that opinions are "crucified with Christ". :shrug Follower? I just can't follow (you) and the many turns you take. Can we pick one subject and stick to it? I'm thinking that the topic here is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Clearly we are told that offenses other than this particular sin can and will be forgiven.
 
Romans chapter 1 , and following chapters more detail,
describes those who live right in Yeshua by grace in Yhwh,
and
describes those who don't.

there's a lot more Scripture also, about the ekklesia, and about the pagans, and how Yeshua paid the price for all so that all might be saved in Him, and why some reject Him and never find life. (19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.) (see context below)

Yeshua said man lives by every Word of Yhwh, not pick and choose. deleting or ignoring the warnings is as bad perhaps as adding to His Word...... >> as it is written >>
Revelation 22:12-18New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus Testifies to the Churches
12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
A Warning
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; ; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
 
Now you've lost me again. Who are you speaking about precisely when you mention those who live without discipline and/or chastisement? I mentioned that you have very strong opinions. You state that opinions are "crucified with Christ". :shrug Follower? I just can't follow (you) and the many turns you take. Can we pick one subject and stick to it? I'm thinking that the topic here is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Clearly we are told that offenses other than this particular sin can and will be forgiven.

the Jewish way of thinking and life involves looking at things more like a picture in context with all the surrounding perspectives and tangents and effects.

the greek way of straight line thinking hurts many people as they miss much of what is important.

also, we have to go round and round, different approaches and perspectives and views getting to "one subject" if possible because of where we live and communicate. to directly do what you ask is impossible for very long because the internet rules and forum rules do not welcome it (a blunt revelation of truth is rarely accepted for some time also). perhaps a private conversation will work better, i don't know.
 
Rom_10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Another opinion
 
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Opinion
noun
1.
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

Rom_10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Another opinion

you may be uncertain about what you speak or post or believe (and with good reason),

but I am completely certain about what i post and say and believe - i only post or speak or believe what i have seen and heard and been taught by Yhwh in and through Yeshua's Grace. I speak truth in Yeshua.
hence, i do not present any opinion willingly or wittingly. (if it is an opinion, i may say so).
everything i say and post and believe has been tested and proven, and is testable and provable around the world, as Yhwh is my witness.
 
the Jewish way of thinking and life involves looking at things more like a picture in context with all the surrounding perspectives and tangents and effects.
...
[emphasis mine]​

In context, Jesus declares:​
Mark 3:28 said:
"Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men...
Luke 12:10 said:
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven...

We know of at least twice where Jesus prefaces his declaration about the unpardonable sin with a very specific thought. He said that blasphemy against him, against the "Son of Man" shall be forgiven. This might be difficult, but try to follow my line of reasoning before you dismiss it, okay?

We know that we have a Paraclete in Heaven. The Word of Truth boldly declares this as true for all who believe. We have also heard that there are some (called 'little ones') whose "angels" are before the face of God (see Mt 18:10). I have no way of knowing definitively if you are if any other person is or is not one of these. But if it that God has made provision for some (who are as yet unknown to us) such that they have such great defense? That even the Holy Spirit is their attorney in fact, how is it that I would want to even chance to go up against such a thing? The people that Jesus spoke of? I've never met them. I have no clue if Jesus said specifically that THEY would never be forgiven - because it's possible that what the Savior was doing was teaching on a specific future event. John 3:17 [ESV] "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." I'm not saying that I know His precise meaning as He spoke those words, not trying to stand as a Prophet and state, "Thus saith the Lord..." but my thought is that it is a valid interpretation and it really isn't my business to come here and try to pronounce or condemn others. I simply do not have that power nor do I want it. It is indeed possible that Jesus wanted to teach us about the unpardonable sin but did not at that time close the book on the men who opposed him. We know that later he asked, "Father forgive them for they know NOT what they do."

That's why I posted in my original post:
... When the source of evil-speaking against Christ is ignorance, misconception, or ill-informed prejudice, then that blasphemy is as pardonable as any sin. ...

Sure, it's true I could be forgiven my arrogance if that's what I chose to do and if I were to categorically and unequivocally state that somebody else was guilty of a sin that I don't yet fully understand (who does?) but it's also true that there are many Scriptures that speak against and warn against judging and/or condemning others. Pretty sure that you yourself could come up with at least one or two Scriptures to support what I mention here if you wanted to, right?

SO then, and again, to my way of thinking, it is okay for me to wait for the One True Judge to pronounce judgment and to content myself with what is given to me to do. To follow after Jesus and as much as possible strive to live in peace with others.

~SparrowHawke
 
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sit down please. (pleasantly, get rested). ... ... ... ... ... ...
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i agree. (note this in Joshua's Believe it or not ! :) ). (we still have stuff to go over)
( :) , Romans 14 is playing on biblegateway.com audio)(a lot about PEACE)

QUOTE>
"SO then, and again, to my way of thinking, it is okay for me to wait for the One True Judge to pronounce judgment and to content myself with what is given to me to do. To follow after Jesus and as much as possible strive to live in peace with others.

~SparrowHawke"
end quote

.................................. as in , yes. me too. Yhwh willing , of course. :)
 
when man deliberately does that which he was formerly against and preached against
Thing is, people's views can change over time. I used to believe Harry Pot--no, let's go with a less controversial example...I used to believe that Pokemon was evil. My family raised me to believe that. Later on I discovered that it's actually pretty innocent, and my stance on it has long since changed from against to in favor of. I have one of the games now and have been playing it lately. Does that make me a hypocrite?
 
Thing is, people's views can change over time. I used to believe Harry Pot--no, let's go with a less controversial example...I used to believe that Pokemon was evil. My family raised me to believe that. Later on I discovered that it's actually pretty innocent, and my stance on it has long since changed from against to in favor of. I have one of the games now and have been playing it lately. Does that make me a hypocrite?
No. But by definition some would say yes.
 
Right...I've heard that stuff before (pretty much the stuff I grew up believing), and I have reason to be skeptical. Especially having played the game and watched some episodes of the series for myself. But I'll keep my mouth shut, not the thread for it.
 
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