How wrong were the Pharisees?

[Classik]

The Pharisees, Sadducees etc always quarrelled with Christ. They were trying to defend the Books...and always argued with Christ. How wrong really were they. Christ's teachings... And in fact HIS presence was complete discomfort to them

 

[Vanguard]

Depends on who you ask...

 

[Slider]

That's an interesting question, and one I've thought about. In Mat 5:20 Jesus said that our righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and Pharasees. In a backhanded way, Jesus was noting their righteousness. They were keen followers of the law (Luke 18:1-11, Mat 23:23 and Paul describing his life as a Pharasee). They accused Jesus and his disciples of being Lawbreakers, and if you look at it, technically they were right. If you do some historical research on the Pharasees you'll see that they were pretty dedicated.

Where did they miss the mark? Well, the two verses I mentioned (Luke 18 and Mat 23), while telling of their righteousness also tells of what they lacked. They also also heavily missed the mark in not recognizing who Jesus was.

 

[Classik]

They also also heavily missed the mark in not recognizing who Jesus was.

A big loss

 

[Slider]

Yea, it was.... Nicodemus recognized it but was too weak in the spirit to respond. But at least he responded.

 

[King James]

The Pharisees hierachy, seemed to have advanced knowledge with demonic world, knowing a head demon personally, and working with the demons to perform the expelling demons out of humans. That is why they accused Jesus using the same methods.

 

[Classik]

The Pharisees hierachy, seemed to have advanced knowledge with demonic world, knowing a head demon personally, and working with the demons to perform the expelling demons out of humans. That is why they accused Jesus using the same methods.

:dunno

 

[WIP]

I have figured they missed the mark because their focus was not on God but on the law. They were so focused on obeying the laws and doing everything right they neglected to retain a relationship with God and in so doing, lost their way.

 

[Carolyn]

At least dealt with the pharasees
He spent time correcting them and trying to provoke them to think and conclude Who He is. HE didn't waste much time on the liberal
Saducees who didnt even believe in the resurrection of the dead. THey may not have been looking for a coming Messiah,either.

 

[nmwings]

The Pharisees, Sadducees etc always quarrelled with Christ. They were trying to defend the Books...and always argued with Christ. How wrong really were they. Christ's teachings... And in fact HIS presence was complete discomfort to them

If you'll read closely, they were NOT obeying (nor defending) Moses at all. They had changed the original teachings of Moses and were "doing their own thing" (hence: the traditions of man.) I think the question you should be asking are: what weren't they doing that had the Messiah so angry at them?

 

[Classik]

If you'll read closely, they were NOT obeying (nor defending) Moses at all. They had changed the original teachings of Moses and were "doing their own thing" (hence: the traditions of man.) I think the question you should be asking are: what weren't they doing that had the Messiah so angry at them?

Alright. Thanks. You are right. (However in some instances they had to refer Christ to the Books).

 

[nmwings]

(However in some instances they had to refer Christ to the Books).

Where did they do this?

 

[Classik]

I think in most cases they had to refer Christ to the days of Moses (OT).

 

[nmwings]

I think in most cases they had to refer Christ to the days of Moses (OT).

Interesting transition you just made. You went from a matter-of-fact statement to one of opinion.

How is it that you think the Pharisees had a greater knowledge and fuller understanding of Torah than the one Who created it?

In truth, the Messiah was (and will be again) the greatest Toarah teacher mankind has/will be ever seen.

 

[Aardverk]

I have figured they missed the mark because their focus was not on God but on the law. They were so focused on obeying the laws and doing everything right they neglected to retain a relationship with God and in so doing, lost their way.

That sounds about right to me. The Pharisees had 'evolved' a system of worship, a practice, a convention, a norm, a habit, a fashion, a belief that what they were doing was right and exactly what God wanted from them.

Today we have precisely the same situation with some Christians believing that their practice, their conventions, their fashions are exactly what God wants from them. When anyone questions their norm, their fashion, they tend to dismiss the question by claiming that they know best because they 'are born again' or they 'have a personal relationship with God' or they 'are guided by the holy spirit' and the questioner 'clearly' isn't or they would know better. :gah

That belief makes them disregard any other ideas and dismiss the people proposing other ideas. I find that just as unhealthy and questionable as the practice of the Pharisees. That is the mind-set that led to the slaughter of millions in holy wars and inquisitions so, in answer to the OP, the Pharisees were very wrong to close their minds to ideas - and so are we.

Anyone who thinks he knows all the answers and all the 'proper' interpretations is a fool unto himself.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

That sounds about right to me. The Pharisees had 'evolved' a system of worship, a practice, a convention, a norm, a habit, a fashion, a belief that what they were doing was right and exactly what God wanted from them.

Today we have precisely the same situation with some Christians believing that their practice, their conventions, their fashions are exactly what God wants from them. When anyone questions their norm, their fashion, they tend to dismiss the question by claiming that they know best because they 'are born again' or they 'have a personal relationship with God' or they 'are guided by the holy spirit' and the questioner 'clearly' isn't or they would know better. :gah

That belief makes them disregard any other ideas and dismiss the people proposing other ideas. I find that just as unhealthy and questionable as the practice of the Pharisees. That is the mind-set that led to the slaughter of millions in holy wars and inquisitions so, in answer to the OP, the Pharisees were very wrong to close their minds to ideas - and so are we.

Anyone who thinks he knows all the answers and all the 'proper' interpretations is a fool unto himself.

Okay Mr. Aardverk, since you know this to be true, can you tell us which Christians you are referring to?

I would like to check into it further.

Since you ask these type of questions to us all the time, I respectfully would like an answer.

 

[Aardverk]

Okay Mr. Aardverk, since you know this to be true, can you tell us which Christians you are referring to? I would like to check into it further.

Really allenwynne? Don't you know any Christians who feel that they are acting precisely as they think God wants them to? I do of course realize that you are just being argumentative for the sake of it but I will illustrate my point by going off on a bit of a tangent. Take the Amish, whom I admire greatly whilst at the same time disagreeing with much of their belief . They have a distinctive way of worship in their everyday life. They have chosen that precisely because that is what they think God wants of them.

I hope that is clear enough for you. You weren't really expecting me to name individuals on this forum - that I have never met - were you?

Since you ask these type of questions to us all the time, I respectfully would like an answer.

I did not ask any questions in my post :dunno. If you actually have a point to make, you will need to clarify it allenwynne. You personally have asked me many questions, as have several other members; I have answered all of the questions to me that I am allowed to answer under the ToS. I have asked very few questions and most other people have ignored my questions. What does that tell you? Don't you think that you may be jumping to a wrong conclusion? <<---That is a question ;). You can tell by the little '?' symbol at the end.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Thank you Mr. Aardverk, you are just too kind.

Now I can check the Amish and see if that relates to what you are saying.

 

[for_his_glory]

Latin root word for religion is bondage, following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true church. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because this Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about a mans religion, nor does he recognize religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ. John 1:1-5; Romans 10:9, 10; John 3:3.

Pharisees supported the scribes and Rabbi's in their interpretation of Jewish law handed down by Moses. (There were over 613 Levtical laws, not just ten. Man had to add on new laws to justify their own needs.) Notice where I said interpretation, this is how many people read the word. The carnal mind cannot perceive the truth of Gods word so instead of allowing the Holy Spirit, John 14:26, to teach them, they would rather have religion teach them. Hosea 4:6 my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

The Pharisees would separate themselves from society, which did not observe the laws of tithing and rituals. The interpretation of the law became more authorative than the law itself. Matthew 9:13 for I am not come to call the righteous, but the sinners to repentance. Matthew 23:1- 39 Jesus first characterizes the Pharisees and then condemns them and laments over the falling away of the church. John 3:1- 12 Jesus explains to Nicodemus, whom was a Pharisee, what one must do in order to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Note also Romans 10:9, 10.

Nicodemus, Joseph of Aremathaea (Luke 23:50- 53), and Gamaliel (Acts 5:34- 39) were three Pharisees that believed in Christ, but had to hide it for fear of going against the sect. Paul also was a Pharisee that persecuted Christians to death for the sake of the sect (Acts 22).

Sadducees are followers of a certain heretical, which departs from established beliefs or standards. They were the elite of Jewish society. They were priest, merchants and aristocrats. They supported the Roman authorities because they enjoyed a privileged status under Roman rule. They were loyal to the Law of Moses insisting that any other interpretation of the law could not be trusted. They did not believe in what Jesus was teaching, because it came against there interpretations. They did not believe in the resurrection of the dead (Mark 12:18 - 27; 1 Corinthians 15:35 - 58).

Matthew 27:45 - 54; Galatians 3:10- 14, 19 When Jesus cried out to God, God did not forsake him, but had to turn away from all the sin Jesus was taking upon himself because God can not see sin, but can only recognize the intent of the heart. When the veil of the temple was torn in two it was torn from top to bottom, not from the bottom up, but what this represented was Jesus being made an end to the curse of the law as Jesus came to fulfill the law. We have now entered into a new blood covenant, which puts us under the dispensation of grace.

Grace is unmerited, undeserved favor, Gods willingness to use his power and authority, given to us even though we do not deserve it.

 

[Classik]

Latin root word for religion is bondage, following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true church. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because this Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about a mans religion, nor does he recognize religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ. John 1:1-5; Romans 10:9, 10; John 3:3.Pharisees supported the scribes and Rabbi's in their interpretation of Jewish law handed down by Moses. (There were over 613 Levtical laws, not just ten. Man had to add on new laws to justify their own needs.) Notice where I said interpretation, this is how many people read the word. The carnal mind cannot perceive the truth of Gods word so instead of allowing the Holy Spirit, John 14:26, to teach them, they would rather have religion teach them. Hosea 4:6 my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. The Pharisees would separate themselves from society, which did not observe the laws of tithing and rituals. The interpretation of the law became more authorative than the law itself. Matthew 9:13 for I am not come to call the righteous, but the sinners to repentance. Matthew 23:1- 39 Jesus first characterizes the Pharisees and then condemns them and laments over the falling away of the church. John 3:1- 12 Jesus explains to Nicodemus, whom was a Pharisee, what one must do in order to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Note also Romans 10:9, 10.Nicodemus, Joseph of Aremathaea (Luke 23:50- 53), and Gamaliel (Acts 5:34- 39) were three Pharisees that believed in Christ, but had to hide it for fear of going against the sect. Paul also was a Pharisee that persecuted Christians to death for the sake of the sect (Acts 22).Sadducees are followers of a certain heretical, which departs from established beliefs or standards. They were the elite of Jewish society. They were priest, merchants and aristocrats. They supported the Roman authorities because they enjoyed a privileged status under Roman rule. They were loyal to the Law of Moses insisting that any other interpretation of the law could not be trusted. They did not believe in what Jesus was teaching, because it came against there interpretations. They did not believe in the resurrection of the dead (Mark 12:18 - 27; 1 Corinthians 15:35 - 58).Matthew 27:45 - 54; Galatians 3:10- 14, 19 When Jesus cried out to God, God did not forsake him, but had to turn away from all the sin Jesus was taking upon himself because God can not see sin, but can only recognize the intent of the heart. When the veil of the temple was torn in two it was torn from top to bottom, not from the bottom up, but what this represented was Jesus being made an end to the curse of the law as Jesus came to fulfill the law. We have now entered into a new blood covenant, which puts us under the dispensation of grace.Grace is unmerited, undeserved favor, Gods willingness to use his power and authority, given to us even though we do not deserve it.

Awesome. Thank you.