Prophecy Countdown said:
Matt2434 “What is the geographical area under primary consideration in Genesis 10? All the modern nations of the world have at one time or another proceeded from these initial nations, BUT the nations of our world today are not in view here. The coastlands settled by the descendants of Javan (son of Japheth, the son of Noah) was the area of OT Greece! From all of those descendants of Noah and his sons came the divided nations AFTER THE FLOOD--nations such as ancient Assyria, Arabia, Egypt, Media, Persia, Greece, etc.â€Â
Hi Matt.
Daniel chapters 7 and 8, and Geneses 10: 4-5, are about the Western migration to which Greece, is but one of many nations. Daniel chapter 8 is about modern Media/Iraq being the shorter horn that rises first on the ram and there is the higher horn that rises later being modern Persia/Iran. The chezev of Daniel 7-8; have nothing whatsoever to do with ancient nations of Assyria, Arabia, Egypt and neither does Geneses 10: 4-5.
[quote:el24l42a]Matt2434
According to my copy of The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, edited by R. Laird Harris, Gleason L. Archer, Jr., and Bruce K. Waltke, page 855, "yawan," transliterated "Javan" occurs 11 times in the OT. The "LXX [Septuagint] by translating with Iouan would clearly identify this name with Ionia, one of the republics of Greece" [emphasis mine].
According to my copy of the following is not quite the way you imply.
Capitals used for emphasis only.
Source Credits. “The Interlinear Bible.
Hebrew Greek English.
English translation by Jay P. Green, Sr.â€Â
“The Greek text is used with the permission of the copy right holder.
Copyright 1976.
The Trinitarian Bible Society, London England.
Printed in the United State of America.â€Â
“THE EVERYDAY BIBLE DICTIONARY.
ZONDERVAN PUBLISHING HOUSE.
Of the Zondervan corporation
Grand Rapids Michigan 49506.
F. N. Peloubet.â€Â
“Greece, Greeks, Gre,cian. The histories of Greece and Palestine are little connected with each other. In Gen 10: 2-5 Moses mentions the descendants of Javan as peopling the isles of the Gentiles; and when the Hebrews came into contact with the Ionians of Asia Minor, and recognized them as the long lost-lost islanders of the Western migration, it was natural that they should mark the similarity of sound between Javan and Iones. Accordingly the Old Testament word which is Grecia, in Authorized Version Greece, Greeks, etc, is in Hebrew Javan, Dan 8:21; Joel 3: 6; the Hebrew, however, is sometimes retained. Isa 66: 19; Ezek 27: 13.
The Greeks and Hebrews met for the first time in the slave market. The medium of communication seems to have been the Tyrian slave merchants. Joel speaks of the Tyrians as selling the children of Judah to the Grecians Joel 3: 6; and in Ezek 27: 13 the Greeks are mentioned as trading in brazen vessels and slaves.
Prophetical notice of Greece occurs in Dan 8: 21, etc., where the history of Alexander and his successors is rapidly sketched.
Zechariah, Zech 9: 13, foretells the triumphs of the Maccabees against the Greco-Syrian empire, while Isaiah looks forward to the conversion of the Greeks among other Gentiles through the instrumentality of Jewish missionaries. Isa 66: 19.
The name of the country Greece, occurs once in the New Testament, Acts 20: 2, as opposed to Macedonia.
GRE’CIAN.
The term Grecian, or Helenist, denotes a Jew by birth or religion who spoke Greek. It is used chiefly of foreign Jews and proselytes in contrast with the Hebrew speaking the vernacular Hebrew or Aramaean.
GREEKS WAS A TERM USED FOR NON-JEWISH PEOPLE.†Unquote.
Matt2434.
In Daniel 8, Daniel first mentions the kings of Media and Persia before referring to the king or kingdom of Greece! These are OT references to OT actual historical nations!
Not quite so fast with the assumptions dear matt2434. :D That is NOT what the angel Gabriel, or the Prophet Daniel indicates.
The Medo/Perisan empire was ONE EMPIRE, not two. With ONE KING, not two.
In Daniel verse 20 there are TWO HORNS leaders, TWO COUNTRIES that rise at DIFFERENT TIMES in verse 3.
Daniel 8: 3. Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two HORNS: and the two HORNS were high; but one was HIGHER THAN THE OTHER, and THE HIGHER CAME UP LAST.
Horns depict leaders and there ARE two horns on that ram depicting TWO LEADERS.
Daniel 8: 20. The ram which thou sawest HAVING two HORNS are THE KINGS OF MEDIA AND PERSIA.
Also the he goat meets to fight the ram at the RIVER ULAI, now called the ‘Karun River’ within the vision yet the ancient Medo/Persians met Alexander the Great on the Arbella Plains over 1000 miles away.
Daniel 8: 6. And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen STANDING BEFORE THE RIVER, and RAN INTO HIM in the fury of his power
Also that war was fought in 331BC which is far too early to fit within the vision’s stipulated ‘TIME OF THE END.’
To enable Daniel to understand the vision, the basic requisite he needed to know was that the vision concerns the time of the end and if we don’t understand where ‘THE TIME OF THE END’ belongs then we haven’t a snowflakes chance in hell of correctly discerning the vision.
Daniel 8: 16. And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, MAKE THIS
man TO UNDERSTAND THE VISION.
Gabriel came very close to Daniel to make sure he did not MISS THAT SPECIFIC POINT. That of THE TIME concerning the vision and scared the living daylights out of Daniel doing so.
Daniel 8: 17. So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, UNDERSTAND, O son of man: FOR AT THE TIME OF THE END shall be THE VISION.
Matt2434.
“There is nothing here, even implied, of the Western Hemisphere of our day!â€Â
Actually, there is an implication that the Western Hemisphere of our day is veru much involved
In the following verses.
Daniel 8: 5. And as I was considering, behold, an he goat CAME FROM THE WEST ON THE FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH, and TOUCHED NOT THE GROUND: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
The point is the Greeks don't have to travel that far to reach the Middle East but the US air force would.
Daniel 8: 6.And HE CAME TO THE RAM he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen STANDING BEFORE THE RIVER, and RAN UNTO HIM in the fury of his power.
The fact that the ‘he goat’ travels ‘THE WHOLE WORLD FROM THE WEST denotes a long distance whilst coming from the WEST of course.
Not only that, but the he goat DOES NOT TOUCH THE GROUND doing so. Signifying modern aircraft yes modern warfare.
If I place my finger on a spherical map of the Earth within Iran and spin the sphere anti clockwise my finger travels Westward and rests on the USA
Matt2434
Furthermore, there is nothing about an end of the world in Daniel 8:17. It is the time of the end and not the end of time! Whatever the time of the end was, the Gabriel was not referring to our time!
Well of course there is no mention of the end of the world in Daniel 8: 17, or at the END OF TIME, your jumping the gun.
We are talking about THE TIME OF THE END, which is the time span of the 2300 evening morning chezev, Daniel 8: 14; which will end at THE END OF TIME. The little horn/Satan will lose his realm at the END OF TIME. When God says ‘time no longer.’
Revelation 10: 6. And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that THERE SHOULD BE TIME NO LONGER:
Revelation 10: 7. But IN THE DAYS OF THE VOICE OF THE SEVENTH ANGEL, when he shall begin TO SOUND, THE MYSTERY OF GOD SHOULD FINISH, as HE HATH DECLARED TO HIS SERVANTS THE PROPHETS.
The end of this old Earth is not for another thousand years after the Armageddon war. The term end of time is not related to the destruction of this planet, quite the contrary in fact.
PC
[/quote:el24l42a]
PC, Your entire interpretation of Daniel 8 is not founded in Daniel 8 but in your preconceived ideas. I say again, there is nothing in this passage about the western hemisphere of our day. You are reading that into the text because of your eschatological system. I have found that it is impossible to make any headway with people who will not simply consider the text and leave their preconceived ideas behind.
"Not quite so fast with the assumptions," PC! What is the CONTEXT of Revelation 10:6? Here is the danger of taking verse out of their setting. This verse does NOT teach that time will end. Note how this verse is rendered in the many translations--
“…shall be no further delay:†(Weymouth N.T.)
“…shall be no further delay.†(Living Bible)
“…no will be no further delay.†(Today’s English Version)
“…will be no further delay.†(International Standard Version)
“…shall be no further delay.†(Phillips Modern English)
“…should be no more delay.†(Revised Standard Version)
“…the time of waiting is over.†(Jerusalem Bible)
“…shall be no more delay.†(New English Bible)
“…should be delay no longer.†(New King James Version)
“…shall be delay no longer.†(New American Standard)
“…will be no more delay.†(New English Translation)
“…will be no more delay.†(Complete Jewish Bible)
"...would be no more delay." (English Standard Version)
There are more. These are the prominent. This is a clear consensus that this passage speaks not about the ending of time but the running out of time to accomplish something. We use such expressions today when referring to the completion of something. "Time's up." "You're out of time." That's the meaning in Revelation 10:6! Time was up--judgment was coming. This is seen in the sounding of the 7th Trumpet, the bowl judgments, the fall of Babylon the Great, the defeat of the beast and his armies, etc.
If my history serves me right, the Medo-Persia empire or kingdom was first established by the Medes, but later the Persians within that kingdom took it over under the leadership of Cyrus. When did I state that Media and Persia were two kingdoms (although they were technically two peoples united into one)? When I mentioned actual kingdoms, I was referring to Medo-Persia AND Greece. But regardless, Daniel 8 clearly states the two horns are the "kings" of MEDIA and PERSIA. I didn't write that! Maybe you should be careful about making assumptions in accusing someone of making assumptions. I'm just saying . . . .
Preterist
Did you just make that term up?
totopic :D 
