I’m saved – I can do anything I want

[AVBunyan]

I’m saved – I can do anything I want

I was once lost as a goose in a snow storm – God, out of love, drew me with his Spirit, regenerated me, opened my eyes and I gloriously saved. God forgave me, redeemed me, sealed me with his holy Spirit of promise, put me into he body of Christ and raised me up and seated me in heavenly places in Christ.

And now…I can do what ever I want! I can smoke, get drunk, steal, and run around on my wife, cheat, lie, chase filthy women, and any other thing my mind can imagine.

Now that your gaskets are blown let me explain.

Yes, I can do the above and am quite capable of doing the above due to my old nature but…but…but guess what? Because of the work God did in me at salvation in making me a new creature I don’t want to the do the above.

Here is where some of get confused.

1. Because I’ve been regenerated doesn’t mean the old nature went away. The old nature (flesh) would love to do the above if it could. You folks have got to realize just how depraved your old nature really is. The old nature never got eradicated at salvation. You are still just as capable of committing the worse of sins. But what keeps me in check?

2. What keeps me in check is the Holy Spirit that indwells in me. God made me a new creature – old things passed away – all things have become new. The battle rages but now I have the Spirit in me that checks that desire and has given me new desires.

But I didn’t get saved by quitting doing the above and I won’t lose my salvation by committing the above. My salvation is not dependent upon what I do or don’t do.

I’m safe in the body of Christ sealed until the day of redemption.

The true grace believer seeks to please God out of a debt of love.
The true grace believer seeks to walk after the Spirit knowing that his old nature is still there seeking to rear its ugly head at any moment.

You folks assume that because we believe we are safe that that gives us a license to sin. We never believed that and don’t know of a grace believer that believes that.

The greatest Christian writers ever were the Puritans of the 1600’s and the 1700’s and guess what? They lived holy and guess what – they believed they were secure in Christ.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Re: I’m saved – I can do anything I want

I was once lost as a goose in a snow storm – God, out of love, drew me with his Spirit, regenerated me, opened my eyes and I gloriously saved. God forgave me, redeemed me, sealed me with his holy Spirit of promise, put me into he body of Christ and raised me up and seated me in heavenly places in Christ.

And now…I can do what ever I want! I can smoke, get drunk, steal, and run around on my wife, cheat, lie, chase filthy women, and any other thing my mind can imagine.

Now that your gaskets are blown let me explain.

Yes, I can do the above and am quite capable of doing the above due to my old nature but…but…but guess what? Because of the work God did in me at salvation in making me a new creature I don’t want to the do the above.

Here is where some of get confused.

1. Because I’ve been regenerated doesn’t mean the old nature went away. The old nature (flesh) would love to do the above if it could. You folks have got to realize just how depraved your old nature really is. The old nature never got eradicated at salvation. You are still just as capable of committing the worse of sins. But what keeps me in check?

2. What keeps me in check is the Holy Spirit that indwells in me. God made me a new creature – old things passed away – all things have become new. The battle rages but now I have the Spirit in me that checks that desire and has given me new desires.

But I didn’t get saved by quitting doing the above and I won’t lose my salvation by committing the above. My salvation is not dependent upon what I do or don’t do.

I’m safe in the body of Christ sealed until the day of redemption.

The true grace believer seeks to please God out of a debt of love.
The true grace believer seeks to walk after the Spirit knowing that his old nature is still there seeking to rear its ugly head at any moment.

You folks assume that because we believe we are safe that that gives us a license to sin. We never believed that and don’t know of a grace believer that believes that.

The greatest Christian writers ever were the Puritans of the 1600’s and the 1700’s and guess what? They lived holy and guess what – they believed they were secure in Christ.

Actually, I don't believe that you deire or encourage license at all. My point of contention is that OSAS assumes that we are static and not organic. What I mean by that is that we are creatures who are growing and changing. We are being impacted by the world around us, by temptation, by sloth...and we are being affected by grace, by beauty, by hope, by love.

The possibility of growth in the Christian demands the possibility of diminishment. I don't think that this is under contention.

No, rather, the point of contention is not whether a Christian sins or doesn't, grows or doesn't- these are given, I believe. The question is can a Christian so stray as to the point of no return?

Don't assume this denigrates God's grace or the efficaciousness of Christ's sacrifice. What is at issue is the fickleness of human nature, and the free will that we retain even after an encounter/encounters with the Living God.

I've heard it said that 75% of Old Testament heroes did not finish well- I cannot verify this- but we all know Solomon's end, and the end of Ananias and Sapphira.

To the point: Is it possible for a human being with free will to walk away from the King, after having walked with Him, to such an extent that said individual spirals ever-downward into despising the Lord?

I happen to believe so, and I believe the scripture points this out. I also believe that the integrity of God' great work in Christ remains inviolate in this, for He does not fail- we do.

 

[farley]

AV,

In another of your threads you claimed that we all are predestined, before we are born, to our ultimate fates.

If this is the case, how can one be sure if s/he is one of the elect, or one of the condemned?

And, also, if this is truely the case, why bother posting here or discussing any of this with anyone, anywhere, anytime?

Everyone's fate is predetermined...RIGHT!?!

In Christ,

farley

 

[PHIL121]

Re: I’m saved – I can do anything I want

I was once lost as a goose in a snow storm – God, out of love, drew me with his Spirit, regenerated me, opened my eyes and I gloriously saved. God forgave me, redeemed me, sealed me with his holy Spirit of promise, put me into he body of Christ and raised me up and seated me in heavenly places in Christ.

And now…I can do what ever I want! I can smoke, get drunk, steal, and run around on my wife, cheat, lie, chase filthy women, and any other thing my mind can imagine.

.

If that is what you are doing, you are not filled with the Holy Spirit. :-?

 

[SputnikBoy]

Re: I’m saved – I can do anything I want

But I didn’t get saved by quitting doing the above and I won’t lose my salvation by committing the above. My salvation is not dependent upon what I do or don’t do.

So, since it doesn't matter, why then do all of those homosexual Christians keep getting picked on? They may choose not to 'go for it' but, based on your above reasoning, they CAN 'go for it' without it affecting their salvation. Is that right or have I missed the point?

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Re: I’m saved – I can do anything I want

I was once lost as a goose in a snow storm – God, out of love, drew me with his Spirit, regenerated me, opened my eyes and I gloriously saved. God forgave me, redeemed me, sealed me with his holy Spirit of promise, put me into he body of Christ and raised me up and seated me in heavenly places in Christ.

And now…I can do what ever I want! I can smoke, get drunk, steal, and run around on my wife, cheat, lie, chase filthy women, and any other thing my mind can imagine.

Now that your gaskets are blown let me explain.

Yes, I can do the above and am quite capable of doing the above due to my old nature but…but…but guess what? Because of the work God did in me at salvation in making me a new creature I don’t want to the do the above.

Here is where some of get confused.

1. Because I’ve been regenerated doesn’t mean the old nature went away. The old nature (flesh) would love to do the above if it could. You folks have got to realize just how depraved your old nature really is. The old nature never got eradicated at salvation. You are still just as capable of committing the worse of sins. But what keeps me in check?

2. What keeps me in check is the Holy Spirit that indwells in me. God made me a new creature – old things passed away – all things have become new. The battle rages but now I have the Spirit in me that checks that desire and has given me new desires.

But I didn’t get saved by quitting doing the above and I won’t lose my salvation by committing the above. My salvation is not dependent upon what I do or don’t do.

I’m safe in the body of Christ sealed until the day of redemption.

The true grace believer seeks to please God out of a debt of love.
The true grace believer seeks to walk after the Spirit knowing that his old nature is still there seeking to rear its ugly head at any moment.

You folks assume that because we believe we are safe that that gives us a license to sin. We never believed that and don’t know of a grace believer that believes that.

The greatest Christian writers ever were the Puritans of the 1600’s and the 1700’s and guess what? They lived holy and guess what – they believed they were secure in Christ.

YES YES YES!!!! Thank you!!! My sentiments exactly! Bless you!

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Re: I’m saved – I can do anything I want

I was once lost as a goose in a snow storm – God, out of love, drew me with his Spirit, regenerated me, opened my eyes and I gloriously saved. God forgave me, redeemed me, sealed me with his holy Spirit of promise, put me into he body of Christ and raised me up and seated me in heavenly places in Christ.

And now…I can do what ever I want! I can smoke, get drunk, steal, and run around on my wife, cheat, lie, chase filthy women, and any other thing my mind can imagine.

.

If that is what you are doing, you are not filled with the Holy Spirit. :-?

Did you actually read all his post or did you stop at the above question?

Yeh I think you got stuck on that question there mate - you might need to keep reading ;)

 

[SputnikBoy]

It's little wonder that some nonchristians look at present day Christianity and say, "Huh ...what?" It's become a 'Clayton's religion' (the drink to have when you're not drinking). It gives the appearance of being real but it's fake.

The first 4 commandments (the greatest) are those that set the Christian apart from even the nonchristians who may keep commandments 5-10. Non-obedience to these commands (just in case one is seen to be 'working their way to heaven' ...God forbid!) is what some of you are suggesting. We must not be seen as being obedient, must we? The ONLY way we can show our Christianity to others is BY being obedient to God's commands. What a stupid argument this is.

 

[von]

Jesus said will He even find faith on the earth when He returns. I think this speaks for itself.

 

[lovely]

Hebrews 12

 

[PHIL121]

Re: I’m saved – I can do anything I want

I was once lost as a goose in a snow storm – God, out of love, drew me with his Spirit, regenerated me, opened my eyes and I gloriously saved. God forgave me, redeemed me, sealed me with his holy Spirit of promise, put me into he body of Christ and raised me up and seated me in heavenly places in Christ.

And now…I can do what ever I want! I can smoke, get drunk, steal, and run around on my wife, cheat, lie, chase filthy women, and any other thing my mind can imagine.

.

If that is what you are doing, you are not filled with the Holy Spirit. :-?

Did you actually read all his post or did you stop at the above question?

Yeh I think you got stuck on that question there mate - you might need to keep reading ;)

: True....

I still think it's a funny way of looking at it though. When you walk in the Spirit, you don't WANT to do those things.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

And that's the point!

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Hebrews 12

Excellent scripture, filled with stern warning, and directed to...Christians.

 

[AVBunyan]

Election

AV,
And, also, if this is truely the case, why bother posting here or discussing any of this with anyone, anywhere, anytime?

Everyone's fate is predetermined...RIGHT!?!

Hi farley - good point and I will address it. Ii think you are asking:
"Why worry about witnessing, etc. since all are predetermined?"

The greatest missionaries of the past were those who believed in election - check out their lives and beliefs - so why did they go to cannibals, etc.?
Because....

1. They were commanded to bey the scripture to go and preach.
2. God uses men and the message (scripture) to draw his elect.
3. These missioanries did not know who the elect were - but they knew God used men to carry out His purposes and they wanted to be used and obedient.

God bless

 

[AVBunyan]

Re: I’m saved – I can do anything I want

But I didn’t get saved by quitting doing the above and I won’t lose my salvation by committing the above. My salvation is not dependent upon what I do or don’t do.

So, since it doesn't matter, why then do all of those homosexual Christians keep getting picked on?

***They may choose not to 'go for it' but, based on your above reasoning, they CAN 'go for it' without it affecting their salvation. Is that right or have I missed the point?***

Hi Sput 8-)

***I believe that if a homosexual truely got regnerated then by the power of the Holy Spirit he would eventually come out of that lifestyle. There are a lot of false professions today. True salvation changes the sinner.
2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

God bless :wink:

 

[NRoof]

AVBunyan,
First let me say I do understand where you are coming from. I have thought about this many times (long before I came here) and in some aspects it makes perfect sense to me. I also see and understand the other side of the argument. Bottom line for me at this point is I am on the fence. I am leaning more one way than the other but I have come to no rock solid conclusion.

So for my edification and learning I thought it would be helpful to break this down.

First what is the requirement for salvation?

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him shall have eternal life"

So what we have to have is a belief that Jesus is the son of God, came to earth and was sacrificed for my sins. I also have to believe that he is the only way, the only truth and the only light by which I can get to the father and eternal life.

So lets start with this. Is this an accurate description of the requirements of being saved?


Now if we are in agreement to this point then continue. If not please stop here and lets fully discuss the requirements for salvation.


Matthew 13
3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. 8 But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. 9 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!â€Â

20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

Verses 20-22 show the person(s) heard the good news and believed. But after some period of time fell away and stopped believing.

Now I know God will and does test us. While I would love to say my faith in God is like that of Job I don't know if I were put through the same tests if I would fair as well. God always leaves us a way out of any test he allows us to go through and we have to make the decision to turn to God or turn our backs to him.

Like I said before I can see both sides of this. On some aspects I agree that if in the future I turn my back on God then I never truly believed in him in the first place. On the other had at this point in my walk with the Lord I do believe.

I am truly interested in your thoughts on this and I hope we can have an edifying discussion on this.

 

[AVBunyan]

Which faith?

Jesus said will He even find faith on the earth when He returns. I think this speaks for itself.

Hi von - let's chat, shall we?

1. Context of the verse you got that from:
From the gospels which is referring to the future great tribulation not this age of grace we are living in right now.

2. What justifies?
Your faith or mine couldn't saved a dead horse. A man is not justified before God by his faith. God is very clear in this matter - please read carefully:
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
It is Christ's faith that justifies not ours. Every new bible on the market changes the "of" to "in" - the difference you say? Glad you asked. The difference is...by faith "in" means your faith justifies....the faith "of" means it is Christ's faith which justifes. You tell me which faith you'd rather have. :o It was Christ who did the work not us. The "in" came from Origen (the origen of all new verions - from the 3rd century) who believed salvation was by works.

Von - this is what I've been hammering on since I came back to this forum....

The issue is not OSAS but how is a man justified before God. Get that issue settled and all the scenarios and "what ifs" will not be an issue.

Again, with feeling....We are not justified by our believing - We are justified by what Christ did for us in our sted at Calvary. Once the sinner is saved he will then have the power to follow God. His following God has no bearing on his justification - that was settled. Will the saint mess up? You bet but he now has the indwelling of the Spirit and God's word as a guide and check.

Don't make the outworking of your salvation the basis for your salvation.
Christ is the basis.

Let grace teach you how to live (Tit. 2:11,12) not the law (doing or not doing). Doing or not doing is good but not the foundation -

God bless :wink:

 

[AVBunyan]

Heb 12?

Hebrews 12

Excellent scripture, filled with stern warning, and directed to...Christians.

While I'd admit that Heb.12 is a great chapter with great truths and applications but you are on shakey ground trying to reconcile Heb. 12 with Paul's church age epistles.

If you read real closely vs. 23 and run the references they will lead you to Exodus and Israel (Exo. 4:22). When the future tribulation starts the scattered Jews (James 1:1) will probably find Hebrews an interesting book - there they will learn that Jesus was the messiah and that it is thorugh him where their salvation willl come from.

I know this may not agree with you but that's how it fits.

 

[AVBunyan]

Justificaiton

I am truly interested in your thoughts on this and I hope we can have an edifying discussion on this.

Hi NRoof :D
I detect a sincerity in your posts that was refreshing. Your post will take some time to create a response. Today will be a long day for me and my hand and arm is aching arleady.

Please allow me some time to ponder and prepare a response.

In the mean time - give some thought on what is it that justifies the sinner before God. Look up the words that are derivatives of the word justify in Paul's epistles. You will find that the work of justification is not based upon anything we do including our believing. The issue is justication - not what we believe!

Take some time to review my recent threads and posts to see where I am coming from and then we can chat some more.

Later - May God richly bless :D

 

[Heidi]

Re: I’m saved – I can do anything I want

I was once lost as a goose in a snow storm – God, out of love, drew me with his Spirit, regenerated me, opened my eyes and I gloriously saved. God forgave me, redeemed me, sealed me with his holy Spirit of promise, put me into he body of Christ and raised me up and seated me in heavenly places in Christ.

And now…I can do what ever I want! I can smoke, get drunk, steal, and run around on my wife, cheat, lie, chase filthy women, and any other thing my mind can imagine.

Now that your gaskets are blown let me explain.

Yes, I can do the above and am quite capable of doing the above due to my old nature but…but…but guess what? Because of the work God did in me at salvation in making me a new creature I don’t want to the do the above.

Here is where some of get confused.

1. Because I’ve been regenerated doesn’t mean the old nature went away. The old nature (flesh) would love to do the above if it could. You folks have got to realize just how depraved your old nature really is. The old nature never got eradicated at salvation. You are still just as capable of committing the worse of sins. But what keeps me in check?

2. What keeps me in check is the Holy Spirit that indwells in me. God made me a new creature – old things passed away – all things have become new. The battle rages but now I have the Spirit in me that checks that desire and has given me new desires.

But I didn’t get saved by quitting doing the above and I won’t lose my salvation by committing the above. My salvation is not dependent upon what I do or don’t do.

I’m safe in the body of Christ sealed until the day of redemption.

The true grace believer seeks to please God out of a debt of love.
The true grace believer seeks to walk after the Spirit knowing that his old nature is still there seeking to rear its ugly head at any moment.

You folks assume that because we believe we are safe that that gives us a license to sin. We never believed that and don’t know of a grace believer that believes that.

The greatest Christian writers ever were the Puritans of the 1600’s and the 1700’s and guess what? They lived holy and guess what – they believed they were secure in Christ.

I'm glad you posted this Av, because we can do anything we want! In the NIV it's called "The Believer's freedom." "Everything is permissible for me but not everything is beneficial." And that is the crux of what being saved means. Because we can do whatever we want, that breeds incredible thankfulness 100 fold which makes us not want to sin. Our obedience, thus comes from love instead of fear, duty, or chore. God's love is total and complete freedom and that breeds more joy, more thankfuleness, and a greater desire to give up our lives for him.

There are others, however, who do not know God's love or they would be thankful for it. They have always loved to sin and will continue to sin. They have not seen the destruction that sin leads to which means they have not seen how their own sin hurts others. This is not true repentence but an entitlment mentality that comes from Satan.