I am starting to REALLY like the Catholics (OC plz read)

[fiat]

Seven Hills...
The Greek word in this passage is horos. Of the sixty-five occurrences of this word in the New Testament, only three are rendered "hill" by the King James Version. The remaining sixty-two are translated as "mountain" or "mount." Modern Bibles have similar ratios. If the passage states that the Whore sits on "seven mountains," it could refer to anything. Mountains are common biblical symbols, often symbolizing whole kingdoms (cf. Ps. 68:15; Dan. 2:35; Amos 4:1, 6:1; Obad. 8–21). The Whore’s seven mountains might be seven kingdoms she reigns over, or seven kingdoms with which she has something in common.

The number seven may be symbolic also, for it often represents completeness in the Bible. If so, the seven mountains might signify that the Whore reigns over all earth’s kingdoms.

Even if we accept that the word horos should be translated literally as "hill" in this passage, it still does not narrow us down to Rome. Other cities are known for having been built on seven hills as well.

Even if we grant that the reference is to Rome, which Rome are we talking aboutâ€â€pagan Rome or Christian Rome? As we will see, ancient, pagan Rome fits all of Hunt’s criteria as well, or better, than Rome during the Christian centuries.

Now bring in the distinction between Rome and Vatican Cityâ€â€the city where the Catholic Church is headquarteredâ€â€and Hunt’s claim becomes less plausible. Vatican City is not built on seven hills, but only one: Vatican Hill, which is not one of the seven upon which ancient Rome was built. Those hills are on the east side of the Tiber river; Vatican Hill is on the west.

catholic.com

 

[Orthodox Christian]

OC, is it truth that one of your leaders of the past was a 5 pointer?

Not to the best of my knowledge.

One of our leaders in the past was Nestorius. (Patriarch of Constantinople)

We, therefore, believe that the Holy Spirit leads the Church over time, even as our human and imperfect leaders do what they do.

 

[bibleberean]

The figure who rides the beast is a woman...

The Roman Catholic Church refers to itself as a woman...

Mother, mistress, etc...

Council of Trent

"If anyone says that in the Roman Church, which is the mother and mistress of all churches, there is not the true doctrine concerning the sacrament of baptism, let him be anathema." (ibid., p. 53 -- Seventh Session, Sacrament Of Baptism, Canon 3)


The false Mary is the central figure of the mystery babylon religion.

She is called "Our Lady" Our Mother" Queen of the church" "Queen of the apostles" Our Lady of All nations" etc...

Mary is the central figure of Roman Catholicism. Mary holds the power and can give the faithful access to Christ... It is claimed that her son can refuse her nothing....

Catholics identify Mary and the church as almost one entity... thus "Holy Mother the Church"

There is a golden cup in the hand of the harlot... filled with the blood of the saints. As demonstrated clearly in the previous posts there can be no doubt who this is...

Revelation 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Rome is the city and it's spiritual harlot is the Roman Catholic Church...

Another excerpt from A Woman Rides the Beast...Dave Hunt

ROME EQUALS VATICAN

Some may object that it is Rome, and not that small part of it known as Vatican City, which is built on seven hills, and that the Vatican can hardly be called a "great city," Though both objections are true, the words "Vatican" and "Rome" are universally used interchangeably. Just as one would refer to Washington and mean the government that runs the United States, so one refers to Rome and means the hierarchy that rules the Roman Catholic Church.

Take for example a placard carried by a demonstrator outside the November 15-18, 1993, meeting in Washington D.C. of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops. Protesting any deviation from the pope's wishes, it read:

"ROME'S WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" (Our Sunday Visitor, December 5, 1993, p. 3).

Obviously by "Rome" it meant the Vatican. Such is the common usage. So closely are Catholicism and Rome linked that the Catholic Church is known as the Roman Catholic Church, or simply the Roman Church.

 

[fiat]

As for the Inquisition, what do you think it proves? That the Church is full of sinners? Guilty as charged. Heck, one of our own Saints said the streets of hell are paved with the sculls of bishops. Was the "rooting out" of heresy limited to Catholicism. No. Your very own reformers did their share of it. Does it prove that Catholicism is not the one true Faith. No. Both Catholics and protestants involved in their respective inquisitions felt themselves justified. One of the first "inquisitions" was against the Catharists (aka Albigensians) who combined Gnoticism with Manichaeism, and believed in two "gods" (the good "god" of the NT who saved our souls from being trapped in matter and the "evil" god of the OT who made the material world to begin with). They scorned marriage, but permitted fornication, and encouraged ritualistic suicide. They were morally and politically dangerous. Even Protestant author Lea admits, "The cause of orthodoxy was the cause of progress and civilization. Had Catharism become dominant, or even had it been allowed to exist on equal terms, its influence could not have failed to become disastrous."

To that end, it is helpful to point out that it is easy to see how those who led the Inquisitions could think their actions were justified. The Bible itself records instances where God commanded that formal, legal inquiriesâ€â€that is, inquisitionsâ€â€be carried out to expose secret believers in false religions. In Deuteronomy 17:2–5 God said: "If there is found among you, within any of your towns which the Lord your God gives you, a man or woman who does what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing his covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it; then you shall inquire diligently [note that phrase: "inquire diligently"], and if it is true and certain that such an abominable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring forth to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones."

It is clear that there were some Israelites who posed as believers in and keepers of the covenant with Yahweh, while inwardly they did not believe and secretly practiced false religions, and even tried to spread them (cf. Deut. 13:6–11). To protect the kingdom from such hidden heresy, these secret practitioners of false religions had to be rooted out and expelled from the community. This directive from the Lord applied even to whole cities that turned away from the true religion (Deut. 13:12–18). Like Israel, medieval Europe was a society of Christian kingdoms that were formally consecrated to the Lord Jesus Christ. It is therefore quite understandable that these Catholics would read their Bibles and conclude that for the good of their Christian society they, like the Israelites before them, "must purge the evil from the midst of you" (Deut. 13:5, 17:7, 12). Paul repeats this principle in 1 Corinthians 5:13.

These same texts were interpreted similarly by the first Protestants, who also tried to root out and punish those they regarded as heretics. Luther and Calvin both endorsed the right of the state to protect society by purging false religion. In fact, Calvin not only banished from Geneva those who did not share his views, he permitted and in some cases ordered others to be executed for "heresy" (e.g. Jacques Gouet, tortured and beheaded in 1547; and Michael Servetus, burned at the stake in 1553). In England and Ireland, Reformers engaged in their own ruthless inquisitions and executions. Conservative estimates indicate that thousands of English and Irish Catholics were put to deathâ€â€many by being hanged, drawn, and quarteredâ€â€for practicing the Catholic faith and refusing to become Protestant. An even greater number were forced to flee to the Continent for their safety. We point this out to show that the situation was a two-way street; and both sides easily understood the Bible to require the use of penal sanctions to root out false religion from Christian society.

The fact that the Protestant Reformers also created inquisitions to root out Catholics and others who did not fall into line with the doctrines of the local Protestant sect shows that the existence of an inquisition does not prove that a movement is not of God. Protestants cannot make this claim against Catholics without having it backfire on themselves. Neither can Catholics make such a charge against Protestants. The truth of a particular system of belief must be decided on other grounds.

catholic.com





[/quote]

 

[Orthodox Christian]

The figure who rides the beast is a woman...

The Roman Catholic Church refers to itself as a woman...

Mother, mistress, etc...

Now why would Rome refer to herself as a woman? Might it have something to do with the designation of the Church as "the Bride of Christ?"

I dunno, just maybe.

Keep stretching, Robert

The false Mary is the central figure of the mystery babylon religion.

She is called "Our Lady" Our Mother" Queen of the church" "Queen of the apostles" Our Lady of All nations" etc...

Mary is the central figure of Roman Catholicism.

Incorrect. Jesus Christ is the central figure in Catholicism- or more specifically, the Holy Trinity.

flop.

There is a golden cup in the hand of the harlot... filled with the blood of the saints. As demonstrated clearly in the previous posts there can be no doubt who this is...

Let me guess- would that be ....Satan?

Catholics identify Mary and the church as almost one entity... thus "Holy Mother the Church"

"Almost one entity" is not one entity- just as "sort of" and "reminds me of" does not make factual analysis.

Stre---t--ch

Rome is the city and it's spiritual harlot is the Roman Catholic Church...

Another excerpt from A Woman Rides the Beast...Dave Hunt

ROME EQUALS VATICAN

Some may object that it is Rome, and not that small part of it known as Vatican City, which is built on seven hills, and that the Vatican can hardly be called a "great city," Though both objections are true, the words "Vatican" and "Rome" are universally used interchangeably. Just as one would refer to Washington and mean the government that runs the United States, so one refers to Rome and means the hierarchy that rules the Roman Catholic Church.

Hunt is such a moron, it's embarrasing. Washington is the capital of a secular nation. Rome is the capital of a secular nation. Vatican City is not the capital of a secular nation.

To citizens outside the bible belt, Rome and the Catholic Church are NOT synonymous. Vatican City, population 900 and change. Rome population is about 2.7 million.

Take for example a placard carried by a demonstrator outside the November 15-18, 1993, meeting in Washington D.C. of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops. Protesting any deviation from the pope's wishes, it read:

"ROME'S WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" (Our Sunday Visitor, December 5, 1993, p. 3).

Oh, there it is, incontravertible proof. I suppose if he had been demonstrating outside city hall in Milan, this would have been clear also?

The Red Scare continues....

 

[Vic C.]

Whoa! Slow down, lol. Aah, my favorite subject... End Times. You people should really move this discussion to the End Times Forum. :-D

Only one city has for more than 2000 years been known as the city on seven hills. That city is Rome. The Catholic Encyclopedia states: "It is within the city of Rome, called the city of seven hills, that the entire area of Vatican State proper is now confined" (The Catholic Encyclopedia, Thomas Nelson, 1976, s.v. "Rome").

Firstly, there are many cities known for seven hills- but know this: The Vatican sits on one hill, not seven.

Sorry, but OC is correct here. This is from a post of mine in the End Times Forum. Please check it out; there may be information there that some may not be familiar with.
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 388#188388

I used to subscribe to this notion too. I used to think that the woman and the seven hills referred to Rome. But further research on this revealed that in Jesus' time, Jerusalem was also known as a city of Seven hills. This caused me to rethink my whole "Rome is the antichrist" theory.

The seven hills are; Scopus, Nob, Mount of Corruption <--[2 Ki 23:13] (all three are summits of the Mount of Olives), Mount Zion (the original), Ophel Mount, Ft. Antonia 'Rock' and the southwest hill (the 'new' Mt. Zion). Just for the record, Babylon was also considered a Seven hilled City. There was also Byzantium, where Constantine wished to build his "New Rome", another seven hill city.

A map of the surrounding areas with the mounts ancient names.

See link for map... http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 388#188388

The Vatican is NOT Rome, the Vatican is in Rome. The Vatican does NOT reign over the kingdoms of the Earth. It doesn't even reign over Italy or the EU, and has tried with little success to even influence the EU constitution.

Correct... actually, Vatican City is surrounded by Rome, just like Washington, D.C. is by it's surrounding suburbs. I'm not too concerned about the Vatican ever reaching that level of political status, OC. Remember, it is World Religious domination, not world political domination that Anti-christ is after.

Just for the record, though I don't believe the antichrist will come out of Rome or the Vatican, I DO believe it will have a big part in the End... perhaps maybe, False Prophet? 8-)

 

[bibleberean]

If I was totally gullible and easily led I might fall for the crock of dung that Rome is not a city on "seven hills". However we would have to re write history to do so...

Here is a tourist Virtual tour of Rome the "City on Seven Hills"...

http://milvetstravel.net/rome.html

Quote from the site...

"Rome Italy, the city of seven hills is a tourist's delight. Rich in history, Rome is a multi-layered place containing artifacts from the days of Julius Caesarthe Colosseum and the remains of the Roman Forum, the wonderful renaissance works of Michaelangelo's La Pieta and the Sistine Chapel paintings. The Spanish Steps, the sculptures and the many fountains (Trave) and plazas are truly memorable. Modern Rome is a vibrant city where people watching on the Spanish Steps is a national pastime. No trip to Rome would be complete without a visit to the catacombs. "

From a tourist information site...

The legendary beginnings of Rome are related in the tale of Romulus and Remus. Princess Rhea Silvia, ravished by Mars (the God of War), gave birth to the twins and abandoned them to fate. The River Tiber carried them to the Palatine Hill, where a she-wolf mothered the babes until their discovery by a shepherd. Romulus later killed Remus, before going on to found Rome in the marshy lowlands of seven hills. The anniversary of Rome’s foundation (21 April 753BC) is now marked by a public holiday.

From the website Rome the Eternal City...

"The city of Rome lies between the hills and the sea and enompasses approximately 420 square miles. It was origanally built on the famous seven hills that still form part of the city."

ROME EQUALS VATICAN

Some may object that it is Rome, and not that small part of it known as Vatican City, which is built on seven hills, and that the Vatican can hardly be called a "great city," Though both objections are true, the words "Vatican" and "Rome" are universally used interchangeably. Just as one would refer to Washington and mean the government that runs the United States, so one refers to Rome and means the hierarchy that rules the Roman Catholic Church.

Take for example a placard carried by a demonstrator outside the November 15-18, 1993, meeting in Washington D.C. of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops. Protesting any deviation from the pope's wishes, it read:

"ROME'S WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" (Our Sunday Visitor, December 5, 1993, p. 3).

Obviously by "Rome" it meant the Vatican. Such is the common usage. So closely are Catholicism and Rome linked that the Catholic Church is known as the Roman Catholic Church, or simply the Roman Church.


And as far as the church being a mother that hardly fits the description of the church!

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

The whore is drunk on the blood of the saints and no other city on earth fits the description like Rome does...

She is a whore! She is drunk on the blood of millions of saints and she will bed down with anyone if it suits her purpose!

The Roman Catholic Church is the Woman Who Rides the Beast...

 

[Vic C.]

If I was totally gullible and easily led I might fall for the crock of dung that Rome is not a city on "seven hills". However we would have to re write history to do so...

Robert, I'm not denying Rome is not a City on seven Hills. I am saying it may not be THE City on seven hills. It surely wasn't known for that in 1 AD. So I will repeat what I said above...

But further research on this revealed that in Jesus' time, Jerusalem was also known as a city of Seven hills....
...Babylon was also considered a Seven hilled City. There was also Byzantium, where Constantine wished to build his "New Rome", another seven hill city.

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 388#188388

You really may want to read the verses I posted there. If you can't see then that there are other possibilities other than Rome, you're not being objective.

No offense, but you may be so "hell-bent" on proving that "Rome" is the antichrist, that you may be overlooking some very important Biblical facts concerning this. Someone tell me, how many times was Israel and Jeresalem called a Harlot in the Bible?

Or... has anyone considered the ACTUAL city of Babylon will be rebuilt sometime in the near future?

"Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared."

Actually, part of it has already been rebuilt. Sadam reconstructed the main wall of the city but ran out of funds due to "Desert Storm". It remains up right now as a tourist attraction... not that there is any tourism going on in Iraq these days. :

 

[bibleberean]

I know what you are saying Vic. I am saying that no other city meets all the requirements the way The Roman Catholic Church meets them.

For the last 1600 years Rome has murdered countless millions of saints.

More than the Roman empire and the Jewish leadership could have ever done.

The Roman Catholic church has the golden cup. It has the vestments it has the wealth it has commited fornication with the nations of the earth. Popes have disposed of and installed Kings and emperors.

It sells the souls of men... Indulgences. It is the evil whore and no other entity that has ever existed fits her vile description...

From "A Woman Rides the Beast"

...I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads....
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication....
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains [or hills], on which the woman sitteth. (Rev. 17:3,4,18,9)

A woman rides the beast that represents Antichrist and the revived Roman Empire he will rule. She is a city built on seven hills that reigns over the kings of the earth! John equates the readers' acceptance of this revelation with "wisdom." That insight demands our careful and prayerful attention.

Many prophecy teachers insist that the woman is the United States. No, the US is a country. It might justifiably be referred to as Sodom, considering the honor now given to homosexuals, but it is not "Mystery Babylon." She is declared to be a city.

Nor is the woman ancient Babylon now being rebuilt in Iraq, for it is not built on seven hills. Some other cities are, but only Rome meets all the criteria, including being known as Babylon. Even Catholic apologist Karl Keating confirms that Rome was known as Babylon and cites 1 Peter 5:13. The Catholic Encyclopedia states, "It is within the city of Rome, called the city of seven hills, that the entire area of Vatican State proper is now confined."

The woman is called a "whore" (v 1), with whom earthly kings "have committed fornication" (v 2). Against only two cities could such a charge be made: Jerusalem and Rome. Jerusalem was indicted for spiritual fornication by numerous prophets (Is 1:21, etc.), but does not meet the other criteria. Vatican City claims to have been the worldwide headquarters of Christianity since its beginning. Her pope claims to be the Vicar of Christ, and his Church the true Church and bride of Christ.

Christ said His kingdom was not of this world, otherwise His servants would fight. The popes have fought with armies and navies in the name of Christ to build a worldwide empire. Vatican II states that even today the Roman Catholic Church ceaselessly seeks to bring under its control all mankind and all their goods. And in furtherance of these goals it has engaged, exactly as John foresaw, in fornication (unholy alliances) with the kings of the earth.

She is clothed in "purple and scarlet" (v 4), the colors of the Catholic clergy. The Catholic Encyclopedia states,

Cappa Magna - A cloak with a long train and a hooded shoulder cape...[it] was purple wool for bishops; for cardinals, it was scarlet watered silk....

Cassock - The close-fitting, ankle-length robe worn by the Catholic clergy as their official garb....The color for bishops and other prelates is purple, for cardinals scarlet.... (Emphasis added)

Her incredible wealth next caught John's eye. She was "decked with gold and precious stones and pearls...." (v 4) Even Christ's blood-stained cross has been turned to gold, reflecting her riches. The Catholic Encyclopedia says, "The pectoral cross [suspended by a chain around the neck of abbots, bishops, archbishops, cardinals and the pope] should be made of gold and...decorated with gems...."

She had "a golden cup [chalice] in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication" (v 4). The Catholic Encyclopedia calls the gold chalice "the most important of the sacred vessels...." That Church is known for its many thousands of gold chalices around the world. A recent newspaper article reported,

The fabulous treasure of Lourdes [France], whose existence was kept secret by the Catholic Church for 120 years, has been unveiled....Rumours have been circulating for decades about a priceless collection of gold chalices, diamond-studded crucifixes, silver and precious stones....

After an indiscreet remark by their press spokesman this week, church authorities agreed to reveal part of the collection... [some] floor-to-ceiling cases were opened to reveal 59 solid gold chalices alongside rings, crucifixes, statues and heavy gold brooches, many encrusted with precious stones.

Almost hidden by the other treasures is the "Crown" of Notre Dame de Lourdes, made by a Paris goldsmith in 1876 and studded with diamonds.

Church authorities say they cannot put a value on the collection. "I have no idea," says Father Pierre-Marie Charriez. ..."It is of inestimable value."

Across the road is a building housing hundreds of [antique] ecclesiastical garments, robes, mitres and sashesâ€â€many
in heavy gold thread....

"The Church itself is poor," insists Father Charriez. "The Vatican itself is poor." (Emphasis added) [And the treasure described here is only part of that which is kept in one location, the small town of Lourdes, France!]

She has practiced evil to gather her wealth, for the "golden cup" is filled with "abominations and filthiness." Much of the wealth of the Roman Catholic Church was acquired by confiscating property of the Inquisitions' pitiful victims. Even the dead were exhumed to face trial and property was taken from their heirs by the Church. That practice, one historian writes, offered "unlimited opportunities for loot."

Most of Rome's wealth has been acquired through the sale of salvation. Untold billions of dollars have been paid to her by those who thought they were purchasing heaven on the installment plan for themselves or loved ones. The practice continues to this dayâ€â€blatantly where Catholicism is in control, less obviously here in the United States where (for example) one pays the Church to have a Mass card placed on the altar in the name of the deceased during Mass to reduce time in purgatory. The wealthy often leave a fortune for masses to be said for their salvation after their death.

In addition to such perversions of the gospel, there are the further abominations (fully documented in police and court records) of corrupt banking practices, laundering of drug money, trading in counterfeit securities and dealings with the Mafia, which the Vatican and her representatives around the world have long employed. Former Business Week correspondent in Rome, Nino Lo Bello, who because of its incredible wealth calls Rome "the tycoon on the Tiber," says the Vatican is so closely allied with the Mafia in Italy that "many people...believe that Sicily...is nothing more than a Vatican holding."

 

[bibleberean]

More from a Woman Rides the Beast by Dave Hunt

"There are, of course, other cities, such as Rio de Janeiro, that were also built on seven hills. Therefore, John provides at least more characteristics to limit the identification to Rome alone. We will examine each one in detail in subsequent chapters. However, as a preview of where we are going, we will limit them now and discuss each one briefly. As we shall see, there is only one city on the earth which, in both historical and contemporary perspectives, passes every test John gives, including its identification as Mystery Babylon. That city is Rome, and more specifically, Vatican City.

Even Catholic apologist Karl Keating admits that Rome has long been known as Babylon. Keating claims that Peter's statement "The church here in Babylon ... sends you her greeting" (from 1 Peter 5:13) proves that Peter was writing from Rome. He explains further:

"Babylon is a code word for Rome. It is used that way six times in the last book of the Bible [four of the six are in chapters 17 and 18] and in extrabiblical works such as Syblling Oracles (5, 159f.), and Apocalypse of Baruch (ii, 1), and 4 Esdras (3:1).
"Eusebius Pamphilius, writing about 303, noted that `it is said that Peter's first epistle ... was composed at Rome itself; and that he himself indicates this, referring to the city figuratively as Babylon" (Karl Keating, Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack on "Romanism" by "Bible Christians," Kgnatius Press, 1988, p. 200).

As for "Mystery," that name imprinted on the woman's forehead is the perfect designation for Vatican City. Mystery is at the very heart of Roman Catholicism, for the words "Mysterium Fidev pronounced at the alleged transformation of the bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Christ to the enigmatic apparitions of Mary around the world. Every sacrament, from baptism to extreme unction, manifests the mysterious power which the faithful must believe the priests wield, but for which there is no visible evidence. Rome's new Catechism explains that liturgy "aims to initiate souls into the mystery of Christ (It is 'mystagogy.')" and that all of the Church's liturgy is "mystery" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, The Wanderer Press, 1994, para. 1075).

WHO IS THE WHORE?

The first thing we are told about the woman is that she is a "whore" (Revelation 17:1), that earthly kings "have committed fornication" with her (verse 2) , and that "all the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication" (verse 3). Why would a city be called a whore and be accused of having committed fornication with kings? Such an indictment would never be made of London or Moscow or Paris--or any other ordinary city. It wouldn't make sense.

Fornication and adultery are used in the Bible in both the physical and the spiritual sense. Of Jerusalem God said, "How is the faithful city become a harlot!" (Isaiah 1:21). Israel, whom God had set apart from all other peoples to be holy for His purposes, had entered into unholy, adulterous alliances with the idols-worshiping nations about her. She had "committed adultery with stones and with stocks [idols] (Jeremiah 3:9); "and with their idols have they committed adultery" (Ezekiel 23:37). the entire chapter of Ezekiel 16 explains Israel's spiritual adultery in detail, both with heathen nations and with their false gods, as do many other passages.

There is no way that a city could engage in literal, fleshly fornication. Thus we can only conclude that John, like the prophets in the Old Testament, is using the term in its spiritual sense. The city, therefore, must claim a spiritual relationship with God. Otherwise such an allegation would be meaningless.

Though it is built on seven hills, there would be no reason to accuse Rio de Janeiro of spiritual fornication. It makes no claim of having a special relationship with God. And though Jerusalem has that relationship, it cannot be the woman riding on the beast, for it is not built on seven hills. Nor does it meet the other criteria by which this woman is to be identified.

Against only one other city in history could a charge of fornication be leveled. That city is Rome, and more specifically Vatican City. She claims to have been the worldwide headquarters of Christianity since its beginning and maintains that claim to this day. Her pope enthroned in Rome claims to be the exclusive representative of God, the vicar of Christ. Rome is the headquarters of the Roman Catholic Church, and in that too she is unique.

Numerous churches, of course, are headquartered in cities, but only one city is the headquarters of a church. The Mormon Church, for example, is headquartered in Salt Lake City, but there is much more to Salt Lake City than the Mormon Church. No so with Vatican City. It is the heartbeat of the Roman Catholic Church and nothing else. She is a spiritual entity that could very well be accused of spiritual fornication if she did not remain true to Christ.

 

[Soma-Sight]

BB,

You are halfway to becoming a certified Adventist with all your research on Rome as the beast......

Now if only you looked into that Sabbath thing a bit more closely and Romes part to play their......

:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

 

[Vic C.]

Hahahaha. :-D

BB, I have read Hunt's book a while ago. I used to frequesnt Ckick's site a lot. Honently, the only thing I really found of interest was this...

http://www.chick.com/reading/books/160/160cont.asp

 

[thessalonian]

BB,

You are halfway to becoming a certified Adventist with all your research on Rome as the beast......

Now if only you looked into that Sabbath thing a bit more closely and Romes part to play their......

:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

Ah so that's how people become adventists. Reading anti-catholic hate books and propaganda. I thought if you were doing it the Bible way that you were given reason for the hope that was within.

 

[thessalonian]

I know what you are saying Vic. I am saying that no other city meets all the requirements the way The Roman Catholic Church meets them.

The Catholic Church is a city? Vatican city I guess. But the problem you have is it's not on seven hills. Rome is and yes it does make some sense that it is Rome, which would of course confuse it with the Catholic Church for people like you to distort. Jerusalem isn't a bad match either of course.

For the last 1600 years Rome has murdered countless millions of saints.

Well tell me how many countless is. This should be interesting. I am curious as to what denom you belong to by the way.

More than the Roman empire and the Jewish leadership could have ever done.

Some of the numbers I have heard are from 50 to 150 million. Take you pick. By the way can you defend these numbers.

The Roman Catholic church has the golden cup. It has the vestments it has the wealth it has commited fornication with the nations of the earth. Popes have disposed of and installed Kings and emperors.

OH MY GOSH. THEY HAVE GOLDEN CUPS AND VESTMENTS! IT'S THEM. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound. Anglicans use golden cups. Heck I could probalby find 7 hills in London if I wanted.

It sells the souls of men... Indulgences. It is the evil whore and no other entity that has ever existed fits her vile description...

Sells souls? Indulgences are not about selling souls. Sounds like you have religous envy to me. Trying to build your own uncertainty up by putting down the Catholic Church which has preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ for 2000 years and has converted more than your little sect could ever dream of.

From "A Woman Rides the Beast"

Toilet paper written by biggots.

 

[bibleberean]

Actually the RCC will be held accountable for preaching a false gospel...

It does not preach the gospel of Christ but another gospel and another Jesus.

Those who have become saved while being members of the RCC have done so in spite of her false gospel and doctrines not because of them.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[Vic C.]

TIME OUT... before this becomes too personal. I allowed this go go off topic because I enjoy discussing End Times related ideas and opinions. At this point I will ask this subject continues in the End Times Forum so that we may get back to the original topic, whatever it was.

Thanks.

 

[thessalonian]

BibleBerean,

Your good at posting the lies that others have filled your head with. I am sure Karl Keating is saying that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon. (sarcasm) Your misuing what he said. Rational Protestants don't believe such nonsense as you are spewing.

If anyone wants to hear the counter arguements to Mr. BB's nonsense here are a couple of good artilces.

http://www.catholic.com/library/whore_of_babylon.asp

http://www.catholic.com/library/hunting ... abylon.asp

Much more I could say if I had time. Rational protestant scholars in general do say it was Rome but ancient rome and Nero was the beast. This is quite consistent with the verse to anyone who is rational.

 

[bibleberean]

BibleBerean,

Your good at posting the lies that others have filled your head with. I am sure Karl Keating is saying that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon. (sarcasm) Your misuing what he said. Rational Protestants don't believe such nonsense as you are spewing.

If anyone wants to hear the counter arguements to Mr. BB's nonsense here are a couple of good artilces.

http://www.catholic.com/library/whore_of_babylon.asp

http://www.catholic.com/library/hunting ... abylon.asp

Much more I could say if I had time. Rational protestant scholars in general do say it was Rome but ancient rome and Nero was the beast. This is quite consistent with the verse to anyone who is rational.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[bibleberean]

I never said Keating was stating that Rome was the Whore of Babylon.

Read what is written before you post... :roll:

 

[thessalonian]

ROME EQUALS VATICAN

Some may object that it is Rome, and not that small part of it known as Vatican City, which is built on seven hills, and that the Vatican can hardly be called a "great city," Though both objections are true, the words "Vatican" and "Rome" are universally used interchangeably. Just as one would refer to Washington and mean the government that runs the United States, so one refers to Rome and means the hierarchy that rules the Roman Catholic Church.

The infallible Dave Hunt has spoken. Sorry Vatican City is not Rome. It is not on any of the seven hills. Neither is it even on the same side of the river. Hunt is a biggot who's pride and hatred is akin to the KKK (most of which were baptists and non-demoniatoinals i am sorry to say). Shall we get in to that.