I can't see it as a "relationship" with God.

[Orion]

I can't see my "relationship with God/Jesus" as personal, or even just a "relationship", for that matter. I can't seem to reconcile the fact that this relationship is bound to my own faith that it is even occuring. I'm to have faith that (1.) "what I read in the Bible is for me", (2.) "when I pray, I am having a conversation with God".

1.) The Bible is a set of books written long ago and compiled into Canon 1600-1700 years ago. Many were letters to a certain person or church, a lot of it was historical accounts, as well as the Messianic sections, the first few books of the New Testiment where Jesus was the on this Earth. Yet, I'm told that the book is to be used as a way that "God speaks to me" when I look at a specific set of passages. Whereas it is true that I can get an idea of what God says concerning certain topics, I don't see it as personal to me since the Bible is general, for anyone who wants to read it. I can get some good stuff out of it, . . . . .but it being a part of a "personal relationship with God", . . . . . I can't see it as such, any more than I could gain a "personal relationship" from reading someone's biography, journal, or diary.

2.) Praying is supposed to be the way I "talk to God", and he is supposed to "impress things on my mind", or something along those lines. However, my brain is so analytical that I can never be certain that what comes into my mind isn't just my own thoughts, and I would gather that most are, if not all. It's an area of "having faith" that isn't working for me. Pastor talked, yesterday, about how we aren't hearing God because we aren't listening and that God will impart to us what we should do. . . . . .that God expects obedience first. . . . . . but I am unable to really know whether I'm actually "hearing from God", or it being my own random thoughts. When I pray, I feel as though the words are nothing more than me "thinking to myself in my head", and those words go no further than that. I don't "hear" anything back. Some say, "well, God will bring scriptures to your memory, and that is God speaking to you". . . . . . :-? . . . . . When I hear that, I go back to point #1 above.

Bottom line is, . . . . I can't see the "personal relationship" or even just a "relationship" at all. I see there being the possibility to KNOW OF God/Jesus, but not have any sort of relationship. How do I reconcile this to myself?

 

[unred typo]

by Orion on Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:52 am
I can't see my "relationship with God/Jesus" as personal, or even just a "relationship", for that matter. I can't seem to reconcile the fact that this relationship is bound to my own faith that it is even occuring. I'm to have faith that (1.) "what I read in the Bible is for me", (2.) "when I pray, I am having a conversation with God".

1.) The Bible is a set of books written long ago and compiled into Canon 1600-1700 years ago. Many were letters to a certain person or church, a lot of it was historical accounts, as well as the Messianic sections, the first few books of the New Testiment where Jesus was the on this Earth. Yet, I'm told that the book is to be used as a way that "God speaks to me" when I look at a specific set of passages. Whereas it is true that I can get an idea of what God says concerning certain topics, I don't see it as personal to me since the Bible is general, for anyone who wants to read it. I can get some good stuff out of it, . . . . .but it being a part of a "personal relationship with God", . . . . . I can't see it as such, any more than I could gain a "personal relationship" from reading someone's biography, journal, or diary.

2.) Praying is supposed to be the way I "talk to God", and he is supposed to "impress things on my mind", or something along those lines. However, my brain is so analytical that I can never be certain that what comes into my mind isn't just my own thoughts, and I would gather that most are, if not all. It's an area of "having faith" that isn't working for me. Pastor talked, yesterday, about how we aren't hearing God because we aren't listening and that God will impart to us what we should do. . . . . .that God expects obedience first. . . . . . but I am unable to really know whether I'm actually "hearing from God", or it being my own random thoughts. When I pray, I feel as though the words are nothing more than me "thinking to myself in my head", and those words go no further than that. I don't "hear" anything back. Some say, "well, God will bring scriptures to your memory, and that is God speaking to you". . . . . . . . . . . When I hear that, I go back to point #1 above.

Bottom line is, . . . . I can't see the "personal relationship" or even just a "relationship" at all. I see there being the possibility to KNOW OF God/Jesus, but not have any sort of relationship. How do I reconcile this to myself?

If you heard the audible voice of God, you’d probably change your skivvies and check yourself into the nearest mental ward. God’s not going to do that to you. Sometimes I think I would like that experience and then I find myself drawing back to the safety of my long distance relationship with incoming scripture messages that answer my questions and soothe my boo-boos. For now, I am content to hear the still small voice that says things like, “was that love one another?†and “put the brownie down.â€Â

Abraham was called the friend of God. He talked with God and God spoke back. I believe that some people hear God audibly but not as many as claim to. Hearing him in your head is awe inspiring enough if you ask me. I can sympathize with your problem, being somewhat of an analytical skeptic myself and having had a similar experience. I finally decided that if it was God speaking, it would align with love, since God is love. I found that the more I learn to love, the closer I get to God.

If I have a person who irritates me so much my love for that person is hard to find, I just pray that God will give me a love for them out of his great storehouse. Soon, I love this person more than people I naturally really like. The bad thing is that since I have discovered this to be true, sometimes I withhold such a prayer because I don’t want to love that person and I know it will happen. Eventually, I come around because the Spirit is quite a nag and I do try not to drown his voice. When I don’t hear him now, I begin to worry that I have locked him out.

I know this probably isn’t a very satisfying answer but it’s all I have right now. Except for the little sign I got that says, “It takes a long time to grow old friendsâ€Â. You can’t rush any lasting relationship. It has to grow day by day.

 

[Veritas]

1.) ...I don't see it as personal to me since the Bible is general, for anyone who wants to read it....

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one can say, "Look! This is something new"? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time. Ecclesiastes 1:9-14

I posted that scripture because there are personal questions that all humans share. Even the "answers" are repeated over and over throughout time and different cultures. There are five questions in particular that all humanity longs to answer: Who am I?, Where did I come from?, What am I here for?, How do I do it?, and Where am I going? These questions are at once general and personal. Similarly, I find God's Word to be general and personal in this way.

Take the questions of God that you're wrestling with. A man nearly 4000 years ago doubted God and in his struggles dramatically wrestled through the night with God. The man never overcame his struggle with God, but he was blessed and renamed - God-wrestler...that is, Isra-El. His offspring became a nation. And that nation struggled with doubt and fell away from God continually, and in spurts and starts, would revive from time to time. Now, we share Israel's inheritance:

This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 3:6

...and with this we become God-wrestlers as well.

The Bible is general as it show's us the history of God's work among His people. It is personal in that God's work among His people is very similar to the work in us personally.

I can't see the "personal relationship" or even just a "relationship" at all. I see there being the possibility to KNOW OF God/Jesus, but not have any sort of relationship. How do I reconcile this to myself?

I find God speaks to me most clearly when I simply read His Word. Take a look at some of the Psalms some time, they are meant to be a help for you. It's okay to use them and personalize them to yourself.

 

[Bubba]

John Suk writes:
"This mention of faith brings us to the most important point. Rather than saying, "I have a personal relationship with Jesus," why don't we say instead, "I have faith in Jesus," or "I believe in Jesus." Where the language of personal relationship has a very questionable pedigree in secular pressures, amidst a therapeutic culture, to cut God down to a manageable size, the language of faith is deeply rooted in scripture. Where the language of personal relationship is always ambiguous and inexact, meaning whatever the speaker happens to privately mean, the language of faith has been deeply examined for more than two thousand years. Where the language of personal relationship sounds implausible or perhaps even impossible, at least as far as the plain sense of such language goes, the language of faith serves as an invitation to ponder mystery and overcome unbelief. The apostle John put it this way: "This is [God's] command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us" (1 John 3:23). That seems, to me, the real meaning and purpose of life."

I personally believe if we as Christians understood the finished work of the cross, where our identity is in Christ, where we are His and He is ours, and that He intercedes for us and nothing on earth or in the heavenlies can separate us from Him, then we are truly living by faith alone. Unfortunately we are bombarded by all sides with doubts about our being a new creation, through work related theologies, excessive experiential claims and the outcome is that we are drawn away from the reality that Jesus is and always will be our all in all. Thus we do not live by faith, but substitute it with the desire of a tangible touch from Jesus Himself. Granted sometimes God does surprise us with these types of expressions of grace, but this is not the norm of everyday life. Living by faith in the risen Lord inspite of the lack of the experiential is probably the norm for the majority of believers and this faith comes from God's Spirit and the revelation of His Word and a firm belief that it is true in regards to me.
Bubba

 

[Orion]

This is the root of my problem. The "take it all on faith". That's fine, but it isn't personal. The Bible is written for whomever wants to read it. It isn't something personal to me. If I read something, even if it is exactly what I may have needed, . . . it's still something that I read that is for anyone. I can't distinguish the "still small voice" from my own thoughts on a subject.

I can have faith in God, that God probably exists and is working his will in the world, and even my life, but that doesn't mean that I see a relationship that is personal in my mind.

unred typo, . . . I wish I WOULD hear God in the way you suggest. I may have to take a shower soon after, but at least it would be something that I could honestly say, "that was NOT me."

:roll:

 

[polysci006]

I can't see my "relationship with God/Jesus" as personal, or even just a "relationship", for that matter. I can't seem to reconcile the fact that this relationship is bound to my own faith that it is even occuring. I'm to have faith that (1.) "what I read in the Bible is for me", (2.) "when I pray, I am having a conversation with God".

This is an issue I'm also dealing with in my life. At this point in my life, I have come to the conclusion that the Bible, although not written to me or for me, holds enough information so that if I study and read and think on what was written to and for others, I can get a general impression of what God expects from me.

And I do mean general. I don't believe that God has specific expectations for anyone today, as He did for those people who lived 2000 years ago (or longer, as is the case in Old Testament accounts). There is no specific expectation for you to establish a missionary church in Timbuktu, or China, or some other foreign locale. There is no specific expectation for you to get a certain education at a certain college and go into a certain profession. There is no specific expectation for you to marry "the one person God has in mind for you," or anything of that sort, which if you fail to do will result in a failure of your efforts, or your marriage, and God being displeased with you for failing to conform to His specific plan for your life.

If God is not going to convey those specifics to us in a way we can understand them without having to consult a psychic, then He's not going to punish us for missing them. I see and hear a lot of people talking about so many specifics that God has in mind for each of us, a certain "plan" He has for each and every one of His children, but I do not believe that they have any great Special Revelation about those plans, any more than we do ourselves.

I have also come to accept the fact that we will never have a dialogue with God in this lifetime. Our prayers are a monologue, a way for us to come to God which He does not return in like fashion. This is not to say He does not have any presence in our lives whatsoever, He just has no tangible presence here. Was that job promotion and pay raise an answer from God, or a chance occurence? There is no way for us to know from whom that promotion came, but we can know that all things that happen in our lives should be used to the best of our ability to work for Him. I believe that our monologues to God are not for His benefit. What does an Almighty God need from a lowly human's prayer? "Neither is [God] worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;" (Acts 17:25)

I believe our act of prayer is for our edification, to give us our own tangible effort to come to God, to remind us of where our life comes from, and to whom we are ultimately accountable. I believe it helps us take on the servant-like mind of Christ (Phillipians 2:5-8) and examine ourselves as we put our daily worship, trials, and praise into explicit thought as we come to God through Christ in humbleness. The "personal" level of the relationship goes as far as we are willing to take it; in this life, God is not personal in return, and I think expecting a personal response from Him has damaged a lot of people's faith. Those individuals whose "personal relationships" with God seem unrealistic and inconceivably bright have, I believe, deceived themselves into thinking that those small mental voices and coincidental circumstances are God's personal response to them, because modern Christians have this notion that we have to have that level of relationship with God. Still others, like you and I, have the potential to have our faith severely crippled, because we aren't seeing that kind of response in our own lives, and that can lead to an unhealthy questioning of God's existence (If God existed, He would talk to me like that) or an unrealistic expectation (If I were saved, or if God loved me, He would talk to me like that).

In my personal experience, I find that those people who have what they claim is an almost verbal and infinitely more satisfying emotional experience with their personal relationship with God are horribly ill equipped in the more concrete aspects of their faith. Human emotions are particularly unstable; build your house on an emotional platform, and it is as quick to slip away as sand.

Bottom line is, . . . . I can't see the "personal relationship" or even just a "relationship" at all. I see there being the possibility to KNOW OF God/Jesus, but not have any sort of relationship. How do I reconcile this to myself?

How you reconcile this to yourself is up to you. I would encourage you not to expect some earth-moving revelation or event. Don't ever expect to feel anything like what you feel towards a loved one here on earth, because that kind of emotional love is developed through repeated positive experiences and interactions with that person. Cynically speaking, I think some people try to whip themselves into an emotional frenzy, because they think they should have even greater emotional feelings towards God than they do towards friends and family here on earth, and as a result I don't believe their relationship with God is genuine. You know the kind of person I'm talking about; the person who is always saying that God has done so much for them, and has carried them through the hardest of times, and really speaks to them whenever they read their Bible or pray or just meditate on the happy things in life, and when they talk about it, it just seems so unreal that someone could have that kind of relationship with an entity that does not interact with us on a tangible level.

I would encourage you to develop your spiritual life in a manner that conforms to what God expects of us in a general sense, and that is understood by reading your Bible and seeing what God expected of Biblical characters in a general sense, thinking about it, and living it. I would encourage you to develop the specific details in your life in a way that conforms to those general expectations, and to do so in a way that glorifies Him in your personal life. We might be excluded from having a dialogue with God, but we are not excluded from being the salt of the earth, or the lights of this world. Our lives are still examples which others observe, and we must still be careful not to embarass God through our own misbehavior.

Hope this helps; God might not talk to you now, but that does not mean He does not care about you. You said it yourself, but for lack of a better explination, that's just something you have to take on faith.

 

[Veritas]

This is the root of my problem. The "take it all on faith". That's fine, but it isn't personal. The Bible is written for whomever wants to read it. It isn't something personal to me.

There is a realization of the Spirit indwelling within....and Yes, the Bible is meant for everyone on the planet.

 

[Orion]

I understand what you are saying, polysci006. I will think on your words. Thanks for your input here.

 

[Drew]

I think that "popular folk religion" has created a myth in respect to the existence of a tangible personal relationship between man and God, when in fact the Scriptures never really promise such a thing and, importantly, the manifest evidence of Christian experience shows it simply does not exist.

Am I saying that God does not interact with us? No I am not. I am merely saying that He does not manifest Himself in the following ways except in very isolated, very unusual instances in the history of the church:

1. Altering the content of our felt experience - giving us "warm fuzzies" or some kind of mystical sense of his presence.

2. Speaking to us as either an audible voice or even an inner voice that be clearly determined, based on the content of the experience itself (i.e. not as an item of faith) to be a distinct voice from our own mental "inner voice".

To those who will claim that certain "relational experiences" are promised to us by Scripture - please make any case to this effect that you think you can. However, please be aware of the following possibility: the texts that you cite, while consistent with the existence of these experiences, is also consistent with their absence.

 

[francisdesales]

This is the root of my problem. The "take it all on faith". That's fine, but it isn't personal. The Bible is written for whomever wants to read it. It isn't something personal to me. If I read something, even if it is exactly what I may have needed, . . . it's still something that I read that is for anyone. I can't distinguish the "still small voice" from my own thoughts on a subject.

I can have faith in God, that God probably exists and is working his will in the world, and even my life, but that doesn't mean that I see a relationship that is personal in my mind.

unred typo, . . . I wish I WOULD hear God in the way you suggest. I may have to take a shower soon after, but at least it would be something that I could honestly say, "that was NOT me."

:roll:

Orion,

These are all legitimate questions, ones that I myself had, and sometimes reappear in my own walk. I, too, am of the analytical sort, and I know that the thoughts that come into my head may or may not be my own - "how can I tell"?

I believe that most here will agree it is a matter of experience. At first, we aren't sure, and we just take it on faith that a "coincidence" of a linkage to what I read in Scriptures and how it "mysteriously" applies to my own life occurs. For example, I may be thinking about money issues and what would God want me to do in a situation. Then, for whatever reason, I read a Scripture verse that jumps out at me. It may not even be in context regarding money. However, it "speaks" to me regarding my present dilemna regarding money.

Now, at first, we can mark this as a coincidence. It is, though, something that we have experienced that is a bit strange. We can take this on faith that it was from God - or wonder about it. However, what I have found is that the more I read the Scriptures, the more these verses "jump" out at me and enable me to, retrospectively, make correct decisions. Thus, this "God speaks through the Scriptures" becomes one of faith that is solidified as it happens more often. We come to believe firmly that our experiences are indeed meetings with God through the Scriptures.

That is not to say that we will not EVER second-guess this. Even the great saints of the Church "wondered" and "second-guessed" whether some experience was "really" from God. I think it takes some thought after the event goes by to really figure that out. And even so, it depends on faith to some degree. Faith is not a science that can be measured empirically. This seems to be a problem for people like us who trust empirical data more than we probably should - and take for granted all those acts of faith that we overlook everyday, such as "Is my mother REALLY my mother or am I adopted"? So many things we have not witnessed, but we believe, based on faith in what someone else tells us. If we were more aware of that, maybe we would not dismiss matters of faith so easily.

In the end, the experience of God is something learned and something that requires faith. To the naturalist, it will be explained away by countless excuses. At some point, however, WE are the ones who will "just know it". Something will happen that will get your attention, an event that COULD be explained away, but for whatever reason, you "just know" it was from God. I can't say when that will happen for other people, but I know it happened for me. It is not a "voice", just an experience that "something else" is interacting with you. I guess it is like that feeling you suddenly get that someone is watching you, although there may be no physical evidence of that happening... It just does... The numinous is always difficult to explain, but we just know it happens.

I hope that all helps,

Regards

 

[lovely]

Orion, God has reached out to us, and what He says it true, and what He's done is true. This is personal, and if you reject Him...this is also personal. If you doubt, then ask Him to help your doubt. He is so involved with us, His children, that He answers our prayers...trust Him...ask Him.

Isaiah 53
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

This is very personal, because Jesus was literally your substitute.

The epistles that were written to the churches were passed around because the church is a whole, and they apply to us as a whole...but also individually. (I agree with Francisdesales' post about this as well) We are individuals in Christ, and Scripture teaches us how we can know Him, and what pleases Him, but we are also a corporate body with Christ as the head. The Bible speaks about the brethren being the beloved of our Lord...this is personal because we are the brethren, and yet we are a family as well.

My walk with God is personal, but I am also part of the family of God. I have had prayers answered, and the prayers of other on my behalf have been answered, but all have been answered according to God's will. I have had my heart prepared for trials, for the Word, for conflict, etc., but I have also been allowed to be comforted by those who have experience with grief, doubt, and pain....those brethren whom God has allowed to go through such things. I have had the Holy Spirit lead me to pray, and then I have had moments when I had no words...the Holy Spirit prayed for me. There have also been times when a brother has been moved on my behalf. I have had God convict me of sin, change my heart, discipline me, comfort me...so strong at some moments it was if I could feel Him, but I have also been part of a body who experiences the same things as a whole. Through these things, and through weaker steps of small faith, God has built my faith. When I doubt, or feel despair, He lifts me with His Word, with His church, and with His Spirit. This also serves to build my faith, and draw me nearer...it also serves to build the church.

He is the vine, and we are the branches...He is our source, and we are of the same material, but meant to bear fruit for the vine...the Father is the husbandman. This is how God describes our relationship. We are His children, and He is our Father...even closer than an earthly Father. He is our Shepherd, and we are His flock...but He will leave the entire flock to go after the lost one.

I'm sorry, but I can not agree with Drew even in the least bit. I read his post, but I would have to consider David, and his relationship with God, as a testimony. All of his mind, affections, everything was set on God, and God was His Deliverer, His Rock, His Strong Tower, His Joy time after time. I also can give you a witness to my own relationship with Him, and I will say openly and unashamedly. Pride keeps us from having this sort of relationship, this dependance, and I know because it has kept me from it in the past, but God has humbled me, and now I can only speak of it honestly and openly. Being analytical has nothing to do with it. It's about being given over to Him, and seeking His face. He is our joy....not surface like emotion, but a source that bears forth this fruit. We should be in love with God, and unashamed to walk in Him...to talk with Him in prayer, to be led by Him, to credit Him with establishing us in good words and works, and to guiding our steps with His Word, by His Spirit. All blessings in our lives, all creation, all providence, in even the smallest matters, should be attributed to God, because they all come from Him.

I pray for you, Orion, and have for a while. I hope that you find something in this thread that leads you to God, to the Word, and not away from Him on a path of man's wisdom and deceit. I would get back to prayer, and the Word. The Lord bless you.

 

[unred typo]

David marveled that God was even mindful of man, yet he seems to have found a ‘personal relationship’ with him that the psalms allude to. Still in all this, I don’t believe God is said to have actually spoken audibly to David. In fact, when God spoke to David about his sin with Bathsheba, he sent the prophet Nathan to tell him about it. So if David, a man after God’s own heart, was not given such a revelation, we should not presumptuously expect one for ourselves.

That is not to say that God doesn’t communicate his will and wisdom for us to follow. His Holy Spirit has been poured out for all to know God from the greatest to the smallest. Jesus himself said he stands at the door of our heart and knocks, awaiting a hearing of his voice and an opening of the door when he will come in and have communion with us. That’s pretty up close and personal. The Spirit of God communicates with our spirit that we are the children of God when we are walking in love.

So my advice would be to continue to ‘love one another’ and you will be filled with God who not only loves but is love.

 

[Orion]

I appreciate all the posts. Unfortunately, it's a product of my (admittedly) over analytical mind. I can know about God and how I should act as a person. I may even be in need and "find a passage in the Bible that speaks to me". But I can't assume that God caused me to read that specific scripture in an attempt to "speak to me". I wish I had that kind of faith, and I'm sorry that I can't just "have it", just like that. To just accept it, . . . because I would be untrue to myself. In a way, it would be a lie. It is great if many of you see a personal relationship with God. I won't deny that you have one. It just isn't going to be the same with me.

And as I look at it, having faith in God still may be a greater step of faith for those like me. I want to know why fill in the blank happens and that's just who I am. So when I find myself at odds with the "normal Christian response", then I will just say that I don't see it the same, yet still believe that God is who God is and that I am still okay. Our questions do not remove us.

I thought it was FASCINATING when I saw the news that Mother Theresa had many doubts and questions as she served in Calcutta. It gave me a new outlook.

 

[Veritas]

And as I look at it, having faith in God still may be a greater step of faith for those like me. I want to know why fill in the blank happens and that's just who I am. Our questions do not remove us.

Well, I'll be praying for you and your journey/struggles! Hope you will be able to help others where you have been too!

So when I find myself at odds with the "normal Christian response", then I will just say that I don't see it the same....

Sure, the relationship you have is personal to you. I couldn't resist saying that

 

[polysci006]

I can know about God and how I should act as a person. I may even be in need and "find a passage in the Bible that speaks to me". But I can't assume that God caused me to read that specific scripture in an attempt to "speak to me". I wish I had that kind of faith, and I'm sorry that I can't just "have it", just like that. To just accept it, . . . because I would be untrue to myself. In a way, it would be a lie.

I do not believe God "leads" anyone to passages in the Bible when they are in need. No worries, Orion; you're better off not ascribing chance, random events to God when good things happen to you. That isn't faith, really... that's more akin to numerology or some other bizarre belief system that sees significance in coincidental events.

 

[Orion]

I do not believe God "leads" anyone to passages in the Bible when they are in need. No worries, Orion; you're better off not ascribing chance, random events to God when good things happen to you. That isn't faith, really... that's more akin to numerology or some other bizarre belief system that sees significance in coincidental events.

I have to admit to resorting to doing this: Open the book at a random location and hopefully read what God wants to speak to you. It's rather silly. I don't do that anymore.

I will just continue under the same as I have been. Being able to know about God, . . . . but it isn't a personal relationship, though my "quest" is a personal one. That being, it is my own personal way of "knowing God". I just wish people would stop calling it "a personal relationship with Jesus Christ", because I see statements like that, then recognize that what I have isn't a "personal relationship", then it leads me to the conclusion that I'm not a christian. Everyone's walk is different and I must be true to myself on this topic.

 

[francisdesales]

And as I look at it, having faith in God still may be a greater step of faith for those like me. I want to know why fill in the blank happens and that's just who I am. So when I find myself at odds with the "normal Christian response", then I will just say that I don't see it the same, yet still believe that God is who God is and that I am still okay. Our questions do not remove us.

I thought it was FASCINATING when I saw the news that Mother Theresa had many doubts and questions as she served in Calcutta. It gave me a new outlook.

Numerous Catholic saints have discussed the same "doubts" that Mother Theresa did. I think it is just plain false to say that people do NOT "wonder" about whether something is from God or not. We can wonder about an event, whether it was a coincidence or not. Also, many people question God especially when bad things happen. Mother Theresa is saintly because she struggled and persevered. I think it is false bravado or ignorance to say "I don't doubt...ever". It seems to me that is an effort to separate the brain from our heart.

The intellect can only take us so far. However, it narrows the "leap" that one must take. All the information that our intellect can cull forces upon us a convergence of data that makes the Christian faith more than reasonable. And while many of us will not likely experience levitation and other such phenomenum, I think an open-minded person who is not a priori against the supernatural will begin to understand that some of their experiences are/were from God.

Regards

 

[Atonement]

OP: To each their own. Every body is different in their walk with God, if you can not see your relationship with Him as a "personal" one, maybe you need to humble, pray more, and ask for it to be more "personal." JMHO

 

[Orion]

OP: To each their own. Every body is different in their walk with God, if you can not see your relationship with Him as a "personal" one, maybe you need to humble, pray more, and ask for it to be more "personal." JMHO

I appreciate your post, Atonement, but it is kind of missing the point. It will still be a matter of faith, no matter how much I humble myself and pray. It isn't ever going to be personal, as I define it. Personal conversation means that the other party is making conversation to me, directly and up to the moment. It isn't them writing a bunch of letters to me, years ago, not being seen again, and expect those letters to fulfill a "personal relationship" with me. Even if this person wrote about a certain topic, and their take on the subject, and I read that in a time of need, it is still secondary to the common "face to face" (or ear to ear, if you're on the phone) conversation.

It's great if others have this sort of faith relationship and I don't want to underestimate it for them. But for me, I'm still sitting by myself and often feel alone, in the spiritual.

 

[polysci006]

OP: To each their own. Every body is different in their walk with God, if you can not see your relationship with Him as a "personal" one, maybe you need to humble, pray more, and ask for it to be more "personal." JMHO

This is the equivalent of telling people they must have personal relationships with invisible brick walls, and if they don't feel that their invisible brick wall has a personal relationship with them, well then, they're just too full of pride, don't pray enough, and don't have enough faith to make it personal.