I can't see it as a "relationship" with God.

[Gabbylittleangel]

Orion,
Do you want a relationship with God?

 

[Orion]

Yes, Gabby, . . . absolutely! But it is hard for me to accept a relationship as "personal to me" when all I have to go on is what was written down by men thousands of years ago. Some people don't have "faith road blocks" in their minds. Unfortunately, I do. :roll:

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

[b]all I have to go on is what was written down by men thousands of years ago.[/b]

That should not be all that you have to go on.

I believe that you need to do a bit of meditating on what you believe and why you believe it. Stuff like, does God even exist, did God create the earth, what makes your heart beat, did Jesus die on a cross to pay the price for Orion's sin, did Jesus Christ rise from the dead, and does God know even who Orion is. Most of the questions that you have posted in your threads, suggest that you do indeed have a faith problem. Most of it seems to be looking for reasons not to believe, and attempts to question, if not chip away at the faith of others.

He gave His Son to die to save you. How do you think He feels about being called an invisible brick wall?



If you are saved, then you got that way with a prayer. Prayer is talking to Him.
You have to talk to Him.
You have to do things His way, rather than trying to get Him to conform to your ways.
You have to believe that God is right. All the time. Whenever you think God is wrong, go back to this thought and ask Him what you misunderstood.
You have to believe that He knows you. He knows your name.

A major part of a relationship with God is talking to Him. Cast all your cares on Him.
The other, maybe even more important part of a relationship with God is to listen to Him.

Stop looking for reasons not to believe, stop looking for Christians who have had doubts and questions. Start looking for reasons to believe.
You are working at destroying your own faith and wondering why it won't grow and become stronger. Can you see that?

 

[Orion]

Gabby, I'm not trying to destroy anyone's . . . anything. I can't help but to have these quetions. I can't cause my mind to stop thinking them. I will I was much more clear cut on all this than I am, but it isn't the case. I would like to have a relationship with God where I know it is real and not something that I have to have faith that it is occuring. You said that I need to listen to God when I talk to him (through what we call 'prayer', which is just taking to God), but what does that mean? What am I listening for? How do I discern God from my own thoughts? I hope you can see what I'm saying here. It isn't about "trying to find ways to not believe". I'm trying TO find that which many believe in. I'm about desperate to find God in a real way!

 

[Atonement]

As I said, "to each their own." I have a relationship, God speaks to me daily through His Word. I'm sorry that you can not feel the presence of the Holy Spirit in a profound way. Myself I can.. Orion, you have questioned your faith for some time now. Of course you feel this way duh!! That's just common sense, that's with any relationship. If you are married and you feel distant to your lover, that relationship begins to pull away.. It's called the Law of Attraction and the Law of Attention. Set your mind on Him, and he will draw near you.. Also you have the internet look up the Law of Attraction and the Law of Attention.... It's all about your faith.. Do you have weak faith? You may say no! Others may say your are, who really knows? It's your relationship with Him. If you want a relationship Orion, then you must first do you part, and STOP QUESTIONING it...

polysci006
This is the equivalent of telling people they must have personal relationships with invisible brick walls, and if they don't feel that their invisible brick wall has a personal relationship with them, well then, they're just too full of pride, don't pray enough, and don't have enough faith to make it personal.

There is someone who get's it!!!!!

Or Not!

 

[Orion]

I understand what you're saying, Atonement. I am trying to do as you suggest, and will continue. I don't know why I am unable to see it as you (and others) do, but I also don't know how to reconcile it to myself.

As for the law of attraction, . . . . . I was married a short while back. I thought everthing was fine until she decided that she would rather be on her own, so she could have other relationships without the bounds of marriage. Even though we always got along very well, she changed over night and told me that she no longer wanted to be married, didn't love me, wasn't attracted to me anymore, and it destroyed my spirit. I suppose that could have something to do with my spiritual problems, but really, I've never felt like I was having any sort of relationship with God.

I hope this problem is resolved soon, though.

 

[stranger]

Hi Orion,

The word 'relationship' is something that has been popularised. When the Gospel was preached by Jesus and the apostles the message in condensed form was ' Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand'. Having said that there is a Kingdom it was a Kingdom that is ruled by love. Summarized: love God and love your neighbour. This short summary is something that we all lose sight of and so we need a system reset. Press the button and start again. Regardless of what people say the Kingdom of God is difficult to enter: narrow is the path and difficult is the way that leads to life and few find it. . .

So over the years I have started again many times, it has been back to square one often where I take no baggage with me for the journey that lies ahead. So the Christian life is a pilgrimage, a journey during which the Christian will experience many Divine disappointments and appointments. In the focus of faith believers will sooner or later come to a wall where the words may be written (in graffiti!) 'Thus far and no further'. This may be a dead end - so you have to go back OR the Kingdom of God is on the other side and you have to do what is takes to get there. In the case of the latter - those who fail to find the way of overcoming this obstacle resign themselves to the mediocre - all that is second best or worse still. So Orion, it appears that you have started you journey , so where are you in your own estimate? May the Spirit motivate you to resolve this.

PS the relationship thing ... I don't use the term 'relationship' or 'personal relationship' and would have to say that I am skeptical of those who ask me 'Do you have a personal relationship with the Lord?' more so than their question. We are made in God's image after God's likeness. . .before being redeemed, after being redeemed we are to be conformed to the image of His Son. God is my Father, Christ is my Redeeder and Lord. I have been and am presently a prodigal son to God. I am nevertheless a disciple. These are statements of faith.

All of the above are not instructions to you (though I have tried to apply them) but what I have discovered about my journey.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Hi Orion,

...
So over the years I have started again many times, it has been back to square one often where I take no baggage with me for the journey that lies ahead...

Square one. I like that. Back to the foot of the Cross. The place where one steps from being lost to being saved, from sin into righteousness. That step is repentance. Orion, when I pray for you, this is the word that God gives me. Completely let go of everything. Repentance is giving up doing things the way that you think they should be done, and turning it all over to Jesus Christ, making Him Lord of your life.

"Relationship" can be on so many different levels with God. Father to the fatherless. A Friend to the rejected. A General to the soldier. You need to find a level where you belong in order to make that connection. The common ground in those relationships? They all involve trusting Him.

 

[Orion]

I believe that I have "started over" again. I will probably never receive anything this side of faith to know that God does care for me but I will continue to live my life moving forward as best as I can.

 

[Veritas]

Orion, do you believe Jesus lived, died, conquered sin and death and saved you from your sins and wants you to live with Him and with your brothers and sisters in Christ forever? It seems you do. It's basic, but simple... that's all it takes.

Or put it this way... do you believe that someday you'll be able to walk up to Jesus? (..and ask Him a few things I'm sure )

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

I believe that I have "started over" again. I will probably never receive anything this side of faith to know that God does care for me but I will continue to live my life moving forward as best as I can.

Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I will probably never receive anything

Hbr 11:6 ...and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I think you and I have been around this mountain before. Speak to the mountain, make it move!

 

[Orion]

Gabby, . . . . my voice is puny compared to "the mountain". After what I've gone through in my life, I rarely am anything other than discontent and my spirit has been greatly weakened by it. What I went through wasn't my fault and I tried everything I could to keep it from happening, but it eventually ended with me being divorced, my ex, who caused the divorce (only because she just didn't want to be married anymore) is doing financially great, and I can't even afford an old junky house in "the ghetto". What happened was the epitome of "unfairness", and I was praying and praying and having my church pray and pray . . . . . going to Christian counseling, trying to get her to just "give the relationship another chance", yet everything crashed down around me. I treated her well. I was never harsh/abusive. Enjoyed doing things that would increase her happiness. I failed, apparently. And I developed an "anger towards God" because of the blatent inequity of the situation.

This is probably the reason why I am the way I am today. I want to be right before God, but feel abandoned. . . . . . alone when in prayer.

 

[Heidi]

I can't see my "relationship with God/Jesus" as personal, or even just a "relationship", for that matter. I can't seem to reconcile the fact that this relationship is bound to my own faith that it is even occuring. I'm to have faith that (1.) "what I read in the Bible is for me", (2.) "when I pray, I am having a conversation with God".

1.) The Bible is a set of books written long ago and compiled into Canon 1600-1700 years ago. Many were letters to a certain person or church, a lot of it was historical accounts, as well as the Messianic sections, the first few books of the New Testiment where Jesus was the on this Earth. Yet, I'm told that the book is to be used as a way that "God speaks to me" when I look at a specific set of passages. Whereas it is true that I can get an idea of what God says concerning certain topics, I don't see it as personal to me since the Bible is general, for anyone who wants to read it. I can get some good stuff out of it, . . . . .but it being a part of a "personal relationship with God", . . . . . I can't see it as such, any more than I could gain a "personal relationship" from reading someone's biography, journal, or diary.

2.) Praying is supposed to be the way I "talk to God", and he is supposed to "impress things on my mind", or something along those lines. However, my brain is so analytical that I can never be certain that what comes into my mind isn't just my own thoughts, and I would gather that most are, if not all. It's an area of "having faith" that isn't working for me. Pastor talked, yesterday, about how we aren't hearing God because we aren't listening and that God will impart to us what we should do. . . . . .that God expects obedience first. . . . . . but I am unable to really know whether I'm actually "hearing from God", or it being my own random thoughts. When I pray, I feel as though the words are nothing more than me "thinking to myself in my head", and those words go no further than that. I don't "hear" anything back. Some say, "well, God will bring scriptures to your memory, and that is God speaking to you". . . . . . :-? . . . . . When I hear that, I go back to point #1 above.

Bottom line is, . . . . I can't see the "personal relationship" or even just a "relationship" at all. I see there being the possibility to KNOW OF God/Jesus, but not have any sort of relationship. How do I reconcile this to myself?

Jesus tells us in John 17:3, "Now this is eternal life; that they know you the one true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."

Now almost everyone knows about Jesus, including unbelievers, so that can't be what Jesus means. He is talking about personally knowing Jesus which happens once he comes inside of us in the form of the Holy Spirit as he explains in John 14:20 and John 6:53 and Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 13:5. But those who haven't received the indwelling Holy Spirit have no clue what Jesus is talking about when he says he will be inside of us.

So no, you can't get to heaven without being born again of the Holy Spirit as Jesus tells us in John 3:5-7. "Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven."

 

[polysci006]

Speak to the mountain, make it move!

You've never seen this done, and I'll wager that you could not accomplish it yourself no matter how much faith you have. If you'd like to attempt it anyways, please invite plenty of reputable witnesses, and I'd like to come, too, if that's ok.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

You've never seen this done, and I'll wager that you could not accomplish it yourself no matter how much faith you have. If you'd like to attempt it anyways, please invite plenty of reputable witnesses, and I'd like to come, too, if that's ok.

Hi polysci006,
Nice to meat you.

Umm, if it is all the same to you, I will pass on your challenge.

You know nothing of the things I have seen, the level of my faith, wagering is against my faith, and I am more interested in helping others build up their relationship with Christ than I am in playing a round of 'fastest gun in the west', and I believe that your statement has totally missed the point of the passage that I was referring to.

Please stay on topic.

Blessings.

 

[Heidi]

Speak to the mountain, make it move!

You've never seen this done, and I'll wager that you could not accomplish it yourself no matter how much faith you have. If you'd like to attempt it anyways, please invite plenty of reputable witnesses, and I'd like to come, too, if that's ok.

We can only move mountains if God gives us enough faith to do so. Faith is a gift from God and he gives us the measure of fiath that he knows we can bear. If I moved a mountain, I'd have every reporter on earth at my doorstep and I know I couldn't handle that!

 

[polysci006]

You know nothing of the things I have seen, the level of my faith, wagering is against my faith, and I am more interested in helping others build up their relationship with Christ than I am in playing a round of 'fastest gun in the west', and I believe that your statement has totally missed the point of the passage that I was referring to.

Please stay on topic.

Blessings.

I meant no disrespect; I only find it annoying that people are essentially accusing Orion of not having enough faith to have a "relationship with God", even though the Bible never really talks about a "personal relationship with God", that when this passage was brought up, well...

I believe Orion is a Christian who is having some trouble coping with some conflicting ideas. On one side are those who believe that we can and should have some "personal relationship with God", and on the other side are those who pray and read our Bibles and go to church and read our devotionals and realize that God is not taking as active a role in the world as He once did, to include an end to the "personal relationships" He had with Biblical figures like Abraham and David.

Whether I or anyone has the faith of a mustard seed, or the faith of 10,000 mustard seeds, that will not necessarily impact God's decision to interact with us. We can not force Him to have a relationship with us by having "more faith" just like we can not force a mountain to move by faith alone.

 

[Guest]

"And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. " Matthew 17:20

Sound like faith to me!

 

[Orion]

polysci, . . . you are my "voice of reason" here. Thank you for that!

"....faith of a mustard seed...." statements do little to help me. What does it matter if you "have a lot of faith"? There are many people I've known that have a HUGE amount of faith in God, yet are not healed (physically, financially, relationally, etc). It seems more like "lip service", something you say to someone to help them GAIN their faith, but it doesn't mean that anything will change. I would challenge anyone to "increase their faith (even up to that of a MILLION mustard seeds)" then show me how they can speak to a small rock on the road to move, AND it being done, then I will agree with you that faith actually matters.

Oh, and by the way, . . . .

John 3:5-7. "Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven."

Isn't it a Christian belief that in Heaven, people will have actual flesh and blood bodies?!!" :-?

 

[Guest]

Orion - look at the true saints of the faith, Paul, Stephen, Peter, from Scripture, look at those that have been marytrd for their beliefs. Did they not possess faith?

Material gain and success here on earth does not equate to having 'faith'.

We will have regenerated bodies - spiritual bodies - if you will, in heaven.