I know this will trigger some people, but I will ask the unaskable

[Rookie]

Soldiers some of the ones that were tortured 1939-1945 are still with us and you could ask them how bad the torture was . Man had progressed with things by WWII and if you study what went on at the prisons you will find that there were equally heinous things happening to human beings . I have read about gloves and lamp shades made out of human skin .
Nazi human experimentation

Again, I don't why I must repeat why everyone is missing the point, I'm talking about other atrocities worse than the Holocaust via number of deaths, methods of torture, and length of torture period. You're debating an argument that doesn't exist. I didn't say, the Holocaust doesn't matter because worse events happened, I asked why is the global media put so much pressure into this one event when there are plethora worse to choose from? What's so special about these specific 6 million that denies the 70 million Christian, 56 million Indigenous, 100 million killed by the colonizers, 15 million slavery victims, 20 million Russian deaths by Stalin (mind you the Cold War and Stalin occupation lasted far longer than Hitler's). I notice only one difference, but I'm not going to say it.

 

[hawkman]

Again, I don't why I must repeat why everyone is missing the point, I'm talking about other atrocities worse than the Holocaust via number of deaths, methods of torture, and length of torture period.

Did you read the link I posted to you ?

I didn't say, the Holocaust doesn't matter because worse events happened, I asked why is the global media put so much pressure into this one event when there are plethora worse to choose from?

Media is all about the ratings and ad revenue and some propaganda . If it bleeds it leads .

 

[daninthelionsden]

Again, I don't why I must repeat why everyone is missing the point, I'm talking about other atrocities worse than the Holocaust via number of deaths, methods of torture, and length of torture period. You're debating an argument that doesn't exist. I didn't say, the Holocaust doesn't matter because worse events happened, I asked why is the global media put so much pressure into this one event when there are plethora worse to choose from? What's so special about these specific 6 million that denies the 70 million Christian, 56 million Indigenous, 100 million killed by the colonizers, 15 million slavery victims, 20 million Russian deaths by Stalin (mind you the Cold War and Stalin occupation lasted far longer than Hitler's). I notice only one difference, but I'm not going to say it.

I think the Japanese carried out atrocities on a horrific scale against the Chinese, including experimentation. Not much ever said about that either. I do believe Blacks certainly got the short end of the stick in American history and it continued, institutionally, until the 60s/70s. It still exists on smaller scales and individually. I believe Martin Luther King was one of the greatest heroes of our time and was born to serve a God-given purpose at that specific time. I believe he was murdered for uttering two words " promised land".

 

[Rookie]

Did you read the link I posted to you ?

I did in fact

1. Wikipedia isn't the most reliable source, hence why I never quote them, anyone can say anything, and make edits, including myself.
2. Still off topic, the Jews aren't the center of this thread as everyone is trying to make it.
3. The experiments were egregious, period.
4. I also agree that you can agree that the last section of that Wikipedia says that some of the experiments have been used to save lives, and the only reason it has been mass banned or ban from citation is because of the way they done it.

As is said here, "Those in favor of using the data argue that if it has practical value to save lives, it would be equally unethical not to use it." (From Cohen, Baruch C. "The Ethics of Using Medical Data From Nazi Experiments". Jewish Law: Articles.)

And here: "The results of the Dachau freezing experiments have been used in some late 20th century research into the treatment of hypothermia; at least 45 publications had referenced the experiments as of 1984, though the majority of publications in the field did not cite the research." (Berger, Robert L. (May 1990). "Nazi Science — the Dachau Hypothermia Experiments". New England Journal of Medicine.)

And here: "In 1989, the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) considered using data from Nazi research into the effects of phosgene gas, believing the data could help US soldiers stationed in the Persian Gulf at the time."

Now so you know I'm not cherry-picking, I do recognize this: "Andrew Conway Ivy stated the Nazi experiments were of no medical value" (although the writer negates it with the "however 6 or 7 words later).

However, this is a plausible explanation for why it was rejected
And this: "Some object to the data's use purely on ethical grounds, disagreeing with the methods used to obtain it, while others have rejected the research only on scientific grounds, criticizing methodological inconsistencies."

If you want to talk about those inconsistencies we can, however its safe to assume it was through ethical reasons, not medical as was show here: "In 1989, the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) considered using data from Nazi research into the effects of phosgene gas, believing the data could help US soldiers stationed in the Persian Gulf at the time. They eventually decided against using it, on the grounds it would lead to criticism and similar data could be obtained from later studies on animals." Basically, it's good research, but in order to not get the heat for it and we can reach the same conclusions elsewhere, lets not use it.
However, there were no medical experiments to save lives with being boiled alive, burned alive, fed to lions, crucified, decapitated, hanged, and the whip... Here's a source so you can see how bad the whip was, and please read it, as I did with your source, and even comment on it: https://www.asor.org/anetoday/2018/12/What-Do-We-Know-About-Scourging-Jesus#:~:text=Because of its brutality flagellation,did not provide for limits.

5. You can't on one hand, call it an atrocity, then on the other, want to use it for whatever gain you want, wouldn't you agree?

Media is all about the ratings and ad revenue and some propaganda . If it bleeds it leads .

Why couldn't I get this answer 54 comments ago? All these assumptions of my motives and this is all I was looking for... -sigh-

 

[hawkman]

2. Still off topic, the Jews aren't the center of this thread as everyone is trying to make it.

As we can all see below your first sentence after your intro had the word holocaust in it . Maybe everyone is like me and read this sentence first because it was first .

So without further ado.

My question is, why do we put so much on the Holocaust and the torture systems used there when if you put the unstable emotions aside, clear your logic, and look unbiasedly at the event, it was equated to a regular POW camp?

3. The experiments were egregious, period.

Torture I would say .

4. I also agree that you can agree that the last section of that Wikipedia says that some of the experiments have been used to save lives, and the only reason it has been mass banned or ban from citation is because of the way they done it.

As is said here, "Those in favor of using the data argue that if it has practical value to save lives, it would be equally unethical not to use it." (From Cohen, Baruch C. "The Ethics of Using Medical Data From Nazi Experiments". Jewish Law: Articles.)

And here: "The results of the Dachau freezing experiments have been used in some late 20th century research into the treatment of hypothermia; at least 45 publications had referenced the experiments as of 1984, though the majority of publications in the field did not cite the research." (Berger, Robert L. (May 1990). "Nazi Science — the Dachau Hypothermia Experiments". New England Journal of Medicine.)

And here: "In 1989, the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) considered using data from Nazi research into the effects of phosgene gas, believing the data could help US soldiers stationed in the Persian Gulf at the time."

Now so you know I'm not cherry-picking, I do recognize this: "Andrew Conway Ivy stated the Nazi experiments were of no medical value" (although the writer negates it with the "however 6 or 7 words later).

However, this is a plausible explanation for why it was rejected
And this: "Some object to the data's use purely on ethical grounds, disagreeing with the methods used to obtain it, while others have rejected the research only on scientific grounds, criticizing methodological inconsistencies."

If you want to talk about those inconsistencies we can, however its safe to assume it was through ethical reasons, not medical as was show here: "In 1989, the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) considered using data from Nazi research into the effects of phosgene gas, believing the data could help US soldiers stationed in the Persian Gulf at the time. They eventually decided against using it, on the grounds it would lead to criticism and similar data could be obtained from later studies on animals." Basically, it's good research, but in order to not get the heat for it and we can reach the same conclusions elsewhere, lets not use it.
However, there were no medical experiments to save lives with being boiled alive, burned alive, fed to lions, crucified, decapitated, hanged, and the whip... Here's a source so you can see how bad the whip was, and please read it, as I did with your source, and even comment on it: https://www.asor.org/anetoday/2018/...ality flagellation,did not provide for limits.

Did I ever say that being whipped was anything less than some other torture ?

IMO , the Nazi data obtained from their medical torture is poison .

Recommended reading ," Operation Paperclip " by Annie Jacobson .

5. You can't on one hand, call it an atrocity, then on the other, want to use it for whatever gain you want, wouldn't you agree?

The MSM sure can and do everyday .

Why couldn't I get this answer 39 comments ago?

Question mark in the wrong place on your first post I guess .

 

[Rookie]

As we can all see below your first sentence after your intro had the word holocaust in it . Maybe everyone is like me and read this sentence first because it was first .

I'll be sure to put my question last next time, because apparently the rest of my comment was half-read and not taken into account because that one word "HOLOCAUST" was brooding in everyone's minds.

Did I ever say that being whipped was anything less than some other torture ?

What else could've you implied here:
_____________________________________________________

Again, I don't why I must repeat why everyone is missing the point, I'm talking about other atrocities worse than the Holocaust via number of deaths, methods of torture, and length of torture period.

(Your comment Did you read the link I posted to you ?
______________________________________________________

IMO , the Nazi data obtained from their medical torture is poison .

IMO indeed, yet your own source said otherwise, but I respect your opinion.

Recommended reading ," Operation Paperclip " by Annie Jacobson .

If I get a chance to read it I'll try I will, I read a synopsis of it, it seems to be about the US recruiting German researcher s& engineers for work against the Soviets?

The MSM sure can and do everyday .

Well, if you want you want to be deemed credible.

Question mark in the wrong place on your first post I guess .

Perhaps...

 

[Riven]

This entire thread is just a round about way of denying the significance of the Holocaust. We're seeing loads of anti-Semitism as a result of the war between Israel and Hamas.

 

[hawkman]

If I get a chance to read it I'll try I will, I read a synopsis of it, it seems to be about the US recruiting German researcher s& engineers for work against the Soviets?

Nazi Party member engineers , they knew about the atrocities being committed and watched slave labors die building their rockets . They should have been tried in court but instead they were paper clipped into the USA .

 

[Rookie]

This entire thread is just a round about way of denying the significance of the Holocaust. We're seeing loads of anti-Semitism as a result of the war between Israel and Hamas.

Again, that's what you want to see, while that's not it. And it's off topic, you didn't even assess anything I said to see if it was fact or fiction, that's part of what I meant when leading with emotion, and folk may need to do some pushups or get a cup of coffee rather than blurting the first thing that comes to mind.

This is just a lesson to rephrase my words.

Also I can use what you said against you, that your denying the significance of more than a third of a billion human lives (70 million were Christian) who died at the hands of broader regimes. And my take on that term anti-semitism, it works just like homophobia, (disagreeing with anything that relates to the LGBTQ community, a leftist woman in a Ben Shapiro Q&A even accidently confirmed this:

). It's anything that disagrees with the personal opinions & ideologies of the Neo-US/European Jewish beliefs. Which like I told Free, all I care is if it's true or not. If it's true, let it through, if it's a lie, make it burn it alive & make it fly.

They should have been tried in court but instead they were paper clipped into the USA .

I'm pretty sure they didn't just waltz into the USA, rather they we're brought & welcomed in by the USA, the same USA crying out against Holocaust atrocities, but secretly using it for their benefit. The definition of hypocritical.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Did you read the link I posted to you ?


Media is all about the ratings and ad revenue and some propaganda . If it bleeds it leads .

God stopped recording the use of a Jew at the time of the first century reformation The Father changed the name of His bride as propmised in Isaiah 62 in the book of Acts. the new name for the bride Christian all the nations of the world . No signs were given. we have prophecy in whole sealed with 7 seals til the end of time God is working in all believers all over the world. Our focus should be on his word the light unto our path

Exactly where there is blood there is lights, camera, action.

We must remember the Holy Spirit the source of our new life is in the blood. Spirit life is spirit life. Flesh separate from the spirit is dust , we do not look to the temporal things seen rather than the unseen things of God.

World war 2 over 15 million military personnel and civilian deaths at over 38 million We are not of those who number days and mankind measuring themselves by thier standard.as if there was strength in numbers We walk by faith the unseen things of God not by looking at flesh and blood the tempol body

In Exodus in the ceremony of blood around the door way .He reminded the Israelites when he see the purpose of blood to represent Him pouring out his spirt on it Not when they literal see it with there own eyes

Exodus 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

Again we walk/understand God not seen by faith the unseen things of God .Not by sight after temporal dying mankind

 

[hawkman]

I'm pretty sure they didn't just waltz into the USA, rather they we're brought & welcomed in by the USA, the same USA crying out against Holocaust atrocities, but secretly using it for their benefit. The definition of hypocritical.

Exactly !

 

[Riven]

Again, that's what you want to see

Projection.

And my take on that term anti-semitism, it works just like homophobia, (disagreeing with anything that relates to the LGBTQ community, a leftist woman in a Ben Shapiro Q&A even accidently confirmed this:

). It's anything that disagrees with the personal opinions & ideologies of the Neo-US/European Jewish beliefs. Which like I told Free, all I care is if it's true or not. If it's true, let it through, if it's a lie, make it burn it alive & make it fly.

No, it isn't. A disagreement is very different than attempting to diminish what happened to the Jews at the hands of the Nazis all those years ago.

I'm pretty sure they didn't just waltz into the USA, rather they we're brought & welcomed in by the USA, the same USA crying out against Holocaust atrocities, but secretly using it for their benefit. The definition of hypocritical.

Yes, I think that's fair. But every government is always looking for an edge. It's hardly exclusive to the US.

 

[eddif]

This will trigger people's emotional personalities off the chart, as this topic is wrapped full in sensitive emotionalism. I know some will be exceedingly angry with me, but if you don't know Soldiers by now, who's countercultural to the max, within a couple of threads someone is going to be triggered.

So without further ado.

My question is, why do we put so much on the Holocaust and the torture systems used there when if you put the unstable emotions aside, clear your logic, and look unbiasedly at the event, it was equated to a regular POW camp? Concentration camps existed a century before WWII, and prisons existed as far back as 1000 B.C. And far worse torture methods existed back in medieval times, especially during the Roman Empire era. But we put far more emphasis, emotion, and empathy on 1939-45, while worse has happened and literally nobody gives a crypt.

Here is a post from a different forum that I made on this:

"I AM NOT DEAMEANING THE HOLOCAUST

But if you take the extreme emotionalism factor out of 1939-45, you can see the camps were just classic P.O.W. camps. Even US pow camps from the Japanese or during the civil war were almost as bad as the nazi's. Prisons existed for thousands of years, even going back to 1000 B.C. many of which had far worse conditions than the Nazi concentration camps & prisons.

Torture methods back then far exceeded the torture methods of 1939-1945, especially during the Roman Empire era which had some of the absolutely worse torture methods such as:
asphyxiation
crucifixion
punitive scourging on the back using metal whips filled with broken glass, sharp animal bones, rigid steel blades, (one lash from the aggressive professional executioners can rip out, damage, and even the internal organs and even expose them)
the legendary brazen bull device (which puts you in a bronze, bull-shaped container, which they light a fire under it which you are grilled alive.)
Being fed to intensely-starved lions
Being burned alive
Being boiled alive
Being deep-fried alive
And many other methods far exceed cruelty.

All of this, Christians have faced, and even continue to face (about 52 Christians are killed daily due to hatred measures, that means 364 a week, 1,560 a month, and 18,980 a year. That's the regular days, not including jailing, beating, flogging etc.) but since the world media, doesn't attach heavy emotionalism to it, most people couldn't care less."

So let the floodgates of war and hatred come, I'm ready, but if you lead with your emotions, your only further proving the point of this thread. Try to pause and think logically, take a 1-minute breather, do 20 pushups, 8 jumping jacks, eat some tofu or a watermelon, something!

Alright, peace.

How much did Jesus suffer?
I will see if we want to discuss that. I can sure not get beyond what the site allows.


Gave himself to the pluckers of the beard
All bones out of joint
Whip pierced his kidneys
Crown of thorns
Public nudity
Abandoned by followers
The father turned his back on him
Darknes from sun he helped create

I could go deeper but I do not want to go too deep before check with the authority of those moderating this thread.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[JLB]

This will trigger people's emotional personalities off the chart, as this topic is wrapped full in sensitive emotionalism. I know some will be exceedingly angry with me, but if you don't know Soldiers by now, who's countercultural to the max, within a couple of threads someone is going to be triggered.

So without further ado.

My question is, why do we put so much on the Holocaust and the torture systems used there when if you put the unstable emotions aside, clear your logic, and look unbiasedly at the event, it was equated to a regular POW camp? Concentration camps existed a century before WWII, and prisons existed as far back as 1000 B.C. And far worse torture methods existed back in medieval times, especially during the Roman Empire era. But we put far more emphasis, emotion, and empathy on 1939-45, while worse has happened and literally nobody gives a crypt.

Here is a post from a different forum that I made on this:

"I AM NOT DEAMEANING THE HOLOCAUST

But if you take the extreme emotionalism factor out of 1939-45, you can see the camps were just classic P.O.W. camps. Even US pow camps from the Japanese or during the civil war were almost as bad as the nazi's. Prisons existed for thousands of years, even going back to 1000 B.C. many of which had far worse conditions than the Nazi concentration camps & prisons.

Torture methods back then far exceeded the torture methods of 1939-1945, especially during the Roman Empire era which had some of the absolutely worse torture methods such as:
asphyxiation
crucifixion
punitive scourging on the back using metal whips filled with broken glass, sharp animal bones, rigid steel blades, (one lash from the aggressive professional executioners can rip out, damage, and even the internal organs and even expose them)
the legendary brazen bull device (which puts you in a bronze, bull-shaped container, which they light a fire under it which you are grilled alive.)
Being fed to intensely-starved lions
Being burned alive
Being boiled alive
Being deep-fried alive
And many other methods far exceed cruelty.

All of this, Christians have faced, and even continue to face (about 52 Christians are killed daily due to hatred measures, that means 364 a week, 1,560 a month, and 18,980 a year. That's the regular days, not including jailing, beating, flogging etc.) but since the world media, doesn't attach heavy emotionalism to it, most people couldn't care less."

So let the floodgates of war and hatred come, I'm ready, but if you lead with your emotions, your only further proving the point of this thread. Try to pause and think logically, take a 1-minute breather, do 20 pushups, 8 jumping jacks, eat some tofu or a watermelon, something!

Alright, peace.

What is your point?

 

[Mr. G Lee]

No, it isn't. A disagreement is very different than attempting to diminish what happened to the Jews at the hands of the Nazis all those years ago.

What happened to the rest of the world at the hand Nazi.. . the father of lies . . the gentiles?

Why focus on the dying flesh of a Jew that can't trace his lineage back to the first century? And even if they could it would prove nothing .Jesus said of his own dying flesh it profits for zero. That which did profit was not visible to the eyes

The use of a outward Jew to represent all the kingdom of men ended at the time of the first century reformation . Why ignore the doctrine of the first century reformation ?

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Gave himself to the pluckers of the beard
All bones out of joint
Whip pierced his kidneys
Crown of thorns
Public nudity
Abandoned by followers
The father turned his back on him
Darknes from sun he helped create

The reference above shows the use of that aparble the "bloody demonstration" as sign to the whole world.

In the garden of Gethsemane the beginning of the Father striking the Son of man brushing his heel crushing the head of the serpent The first part of the three days and night promised demonstration it fulfilled prophecy as a sign to the believers (Genesis 3:15 with Isaiah 53) The father and Son alone doing the work of salvation

The non bloody demonstration to the unbelieving world . Three time sufferings unto death Jesus hoped for support from the other apostles .The Father faithfully put them to sleep all three times. Again the prophecy is in respect to two working as one .Unlike the bloody demonstration to the world. . semining he was crucified by the hands of of a Satan inspired crowd. When finished with the bloody part the hill then they moved to the tomb the demonstration of faith the unseen things of God .The Holy Father removed the grave clothes and rolled back the stone finishing the three day and night demonstration

 

[eddif]

What happened to the rest of the world at the hand Nazi.. . the father of lies . . the gentiles?

Why focus on the dying flesh of a Jew that can't trace his lineage back to the first century? And even if they could it would prove nothing .Jesus said of his own dying flesh it profits for zero. That which did profit was not visible to the eyes

The use of an outward Jew to represent all the kingdom of men ended at the time of the first century reformation . Why ignore the doctrine of the first century reformation ?

We do not insult Jew, Greek, or church of God. 1 Corinthians 10:32
All have sinned.

eddif

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I asked why is the global media put so much pressure into this one event when there are plethora worse to choose from? What's so special about these specific 6 million that denies the 70 million Christian, 56 million Indigenous, 100 million killed by the colonizers, 15 million slavery victims, 20 million Russian deaths by Stalin (mind you the Cold War and Stalin occupation lasted far longer than Hitler's). I notice only one difference, but I'm not going to say it.

The atrocities you mention are all the same because,

He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker. Pro.14:31
Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker. Pro.17:5
therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.Jas.3:9

Do you see what I'm saying? The ungodly think "racial" hatred is the problem. It isn't. The problem is people hate God.

 

[Tenchi]

This will trigger people's emotional personalities off the chart, as this topic is wrapped full in sensitive emotionalism. I know some will be exceedingly angry with me, but if you don't know Soldiers by now, who's countercultural to the max, within a couple of threads someone is going to be triggered.

So without further ado.

My question is, why do we put so much on the Holocaust and the torture systems used there when if you put the unstable emotions aside, clear your logic, and look unbiasedly at the event, it was equated to a regular POW camp? Concentration camps existed a century before WWII, and prisons existed as far back as 1000 B.C. And far worse torture methods existed back in medieval times, especially during the Roman Empire era. But we put far more emphasis, emotion, and empathy on 1939-45, while worse has happened and literally nobody gives a crypt.

Here is a post from a different forum that I made on this:

"I AM NOT DEAMEANING THE HOLOCAUST

But if you take the extreme emotionalism factor out of 1939-45, you can see the camps were just classic P.O.W. camps. Even US pow camps from the Japanese or during the civil war were almost as bad as the nazi's. Prisons existed for thousands of years, even going back to 1000 B.C. many of which had far worse conditions than the Nazi concentration camps & prisons.

Torture methods back then far exceeded the torture methods of 1939-1945, especially during the Roman Empire era which had some of the absolutely worse torture methods such as:
asphyxiation
crucifixion
punitive scourging on the back using metal whips filled with broken glass, sharp animal bones, rigid steel blades, (one lash from the aggressive professional executioners can rip out, damage, and even the internal organs and even expose them)
the legendary brazen bull device (which puts you in a bronze, bull-shaped container, which they light a fire under it which you are grilled alive.)
Being fed to intensely-starved lions
Being burned alive
Being boiled alive
Being deep-fried alive
And many other methods far exceed cruelty.

All of this, Christians have faced, and even continue to face (about 52 Christians are killed daily due to hatred measures, that means 364 a week, 1,560 a month, and 18,980 a year. That's the regular days, not including jailing, beating, flogging etc.) but since the world media, doesn't attach heavy emotionalism to it, most people couldn't care less."

So let the floodgates of war and hatred come, I'm ready, but if you lead with your emotions, your only further proving the point of this thread. Try to pause and think logically, take a 1-minute breather, do 20 pushups, 8 jumping jacks, eat some tofu or a watermelon, something!

Alright, peace.

What's the point of this post, exactly? Surely there are better things about which to converse than whether or not the Holocaust was the worst atrocity in history. It clearly wasn't, but this doesn't mean it wasn't an atrocity deserving of all the horror and disgust we might have in response to it.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Again, that's what you want to see, while that's not it. And it's off topic, you didn't even assess anything I said to see if it was fact or fiction, that's part of what I meant when leading with emotion, and folk may need to do some pushups or get a cup of coffee rather than blurting the first thing that comes to mind.

This is just a lesson to rephrase my words.

Also I can use what you said against you, that your denying the significance of more than a third of a billion human lives (70 million were Christian) who died at the hands of broader regimes. And my take on that term anti-semitism, it works just like homophobia, (disagreeing with anything that relates to the LGBTQ community, a leftist woman in a Ben Shapiro Q&A even accidently confirmed this:

). It's anything that disagrees with the personal opinions & ideologies of the Neo-US/European Jewish beliefs. Which like I told Free, all I care is if it's true or not. If it's true, let it through, if it's a lie, make it burn it alive & make it fly.

I'm pretty sure they didn't just waltz into the USA, rather they we're brought & welcomed in by the USA, the same USA crying out against Holocaust atrocities, but secretly using it for their benefit. The definition of hypocritical.

There was medical experimentation carried out in America using Blacks. Look up syphilis experiments on Blacks it's absolutely atrocious. No telling what else was done.