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I PRAY FOR THEM: I PRAY NOT FOR THE WORLD

In John 17:6 Jesus says: I have manisfested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of this world

Verse 8..."I have given them the words which thou gavest me.

And in this context speaking of theses men given him by God the Father, Jesus Says, so Plainly " I pray for them: I pray NOT FOR THE WORLD but for them which thou hast given me.

Jesus Prayed for those given him, not for the whole world. ................This is what the scriptures say?
 
In this instance, yes. This is part of the great priestly prayer that Jesus prayed for His disciples and believers just as He was about to be taken away and put to death. This prayer is indeed special, it is for and about only those who are His sheep.

Context is important though... we shouldn't take away from this passage that Jesus didn't care nor ever prayed for unbelievers or the world. As a matter of fact, a few hours later, when He was hanging on the cross, He prayed for the unbelievers who were mocking and rejecting Him ""Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." Luke 23:24

It's also good to remember that Jesus commands us to pray for unbelievers and those who mock or spitefully use us. "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you..." Matthew 5:44
 
In John 17:6 Jesus says: I have manisfested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of this world

Verse 8..."I have given them the words which thou gavest me.

And in this context speaking of theses men given him by God the Father, Jesus Says, so Plainly " I pray for them: I pray NOT FOR THE WORLD but for them which thou hast given me.

Jesus Prayed for those given him, not for the whole world. ................This is what the scriptures say?

This is a great scripture.

I guess this means that only the 12 disciples were the elect and destined to be saved.


JLB
 
As a matter of fact, a few hours later, when He was hanging on the cross, He prayed for the unbelievers who were mocking and rejecting Him ""Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." Luke 23:24

That statement is not true to the Word of God.
Christ did not pray forgiveness for those wicked there, His enemies.
For the only ones who have forgiveness of sins are those chosen, elect of God; they are the only ones who can be forgiven!

Ephesians 1:3-9
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace; Wherein He hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself:

Read Psalm 69:19-28 to understand the request of the Saviour's heart to the Father regarding those there; His enemies:

Thou hast known my reproach, and my shame, and my dishonour: mine adversaries are all before thee. Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink. Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap. Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake. Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them. Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents. For they persecute Him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded. Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness. Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Only the elect Christ died for have forgiveness of sins!
They are the ones Christ prayed to the Father to forgive them;
they are the ones who pierced Him! (Rev. 1:7)

TGBTG!
 
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In John 17:6 Jesus says: I have manisfested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of this world

Verse 8..."I have given them the words which thou gavest me.

And in this context speaking of theses men given him by God the Father, Jesus Says, so Plainly " I pray for them: I pray NOT FOR THE WORLD but for them which thou hast given me.

Jesus Prayed for those given him, not for the whole world. ................This is what the scriptures say?

The 'world' in this context is not individual people, but the theological system God's people were operating in. Jesus introduced a system of repentance and Grace which is better than the old system of works through temple sacrifice. Jesus most definitely loves and prays for His enemies on the individual level, otherwise we could never be saved. Yet Jesus does not pray for those religions or convictions which have people trapped in deception. Look up Strong's G2889 - kosmos.:twocents
 
That statement is not true to the Word of God


To say that any certain verse is not true to the word of God is to deny the truth of Scripture. It says what it says and it IS the truth as are ALL scriptures. We can't pick a verse and say THAT"S NOT true because if even one single part of the Bible is not true, what part can we trust.? I agree with most of what you say but don't say certain scriptures are not true. You might want to rephrase this? Again I agree with everything else you said except the last line. I have to consider this idea that the elect are the ones who pierced his side.
 
That statement is not true to the Word of God


To say that any certain verse is not true to the word of God is to deny the truth of Scripture. It says what it says and it IS the truth as are ALL scriptures. We can't pick a verse and say THAT"S NOT true because if even one single part of the Bible is not true, what part can we trust.? I agree with most of what you say but don't say certain scriptures are not true. You might want to rephrase this? Again I agree with everything else you said except the last line. I have to consider this idea that the elect are the ones who pierced his side.


We, the elect whom Christ died for. We were the ones who pierced Him. For it was for our sins He died for!
 
[MENTION=94634]josefnospam[/MENTION] Your intentions are good, and I know that you agree with handy too. Blessings.
 
The 'world' in this context is not individual people


It's funny how the word world is interputed by people. In John 3:16 people INSIST the world means everyone, yet say here the word world does not mean the world but a select group. What if we applied this to John 3:16 also. A theological system God's people were operating in.

Yes Jesus prays for his enemies as all MEN are sinners and he came to save sinners. He choose the ones he wanted and prayed for them to come to him. He went to hated tax collectors, prostitues, ect. because it was necassary for him to do so. As an example, when he went to the woman at the well in John 4. John 4:4 And he must needs to go through Samaria. He was seeking his sheep and many were outcast, or depised.
 
The 'world' in this context is not individual people


It's funny how the word world is interputed by people. In John 3:16 people INSIST the world means everyone, yet say here the word world does not mean the world but a select group. What if we applied this to John 3:16 also. A theological system God's people were operating in.

Yes Jesus prays for his enemies as all MEN are sinners and he came to save sinners. He choose the ones he wanted and prayed for them to come to him. He went to hated tax collectors, prostitues, ect. because it was necassary for him to do so. As an example, when he went to the woman at the well in John 4. John 4:4 And he must needs to go through Samaria. He was seeking his sheep and many were outcast, or depised.

Look up Strong's G2889 - kosmos.

There are many ways kosmos can be defined depending on the context. In John 3:16 it can be the entire global world without contradicting the Gospel. We can't have Jesus being a respecter of persons, which is what is implied if he only prays for those individuals who either love Him or He knows will eventually love Him.
 
In this instance, yes. This is part of the great priestly prayer that Jesus prayed for His disciples and believers just as He was about to be taken away and put to death. This prayer is indeed special, it is for and about only those who are His sheep.

Context is important though... we shouldn't take away from this passage that Jesus didn't care nor ever prayed for unbelievers or the world. As a matter of fact, a few hours later, when He was hanging on the cross, He prayed for the unbelievers who were mocking and rejecting Him ""Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." Luke 23:24

It's also good to remember that Jesus commands us to pray for unbelievers and those who mock or spitefully use us. "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you..." Matthew 5:44
I agree with your points handy, but it is important that this prayer be understood as it is written, the Holy Spirit made this point for a very important reason. As our Mediator it is the prayers and intercession of Our Beloved Christ that protects us in this evil world: And this prayer shows much about the trials we will have as sincere believers and also the promises that where contained in this prayer are amazing!

Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 ¶ Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
 
@josefnospam Your intentions are good, and I know that you agree with handy too. Blessings.
Hey Dave your brain looks just like mine! But mine is about the size of a walnut and rattles around a lot in all that empty space:)
 
Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 ¶ Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Regarding verse 20:

Christ was not only praying for His elect group of 11, who preached the Gospel through their words while on the earth, but for them also which shall believe on Him. Those who shall believe on Him are all the elect seed from all the nations; all those Christ died for (2 Timothy 1:9,10; Rev. 13:8). In other words, He sends His Gospel to them which have spiritual life, to those who will hear (Rom. 10:14,15; Acts 28:28; Psalm 18:44; John 10:27, 28)

GTG!
 
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It's funny how the word world is interputed by people. In John 3:16 people INSIST the world means everyone, yet say here the word world does not mean the world but a select group. What if we applied this to John 3:16 also. A theological system God's people were operating in.


4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4


Yeah it is funny how people interpret the word world.



JLB
 
It's funny how the word world is interputed by people. In John 3:16 people INSIST the world means everyone, yet say here the word world does not mean the world but a select group. What if we applied this to John 3:16 also. A theological system God's people were operating in.


4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4


Yeah it is funny how people interpret the word world.



JLB
Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
11 ¶ Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
 
11 ¶ Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.



This would be good for you to study.

So you can be a doer of the Law.


JLB
 
11 ¶ Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.



This would be good for you to study.

So you can be a doer of the Law.


JLB
Joh 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.:chokedup
 
This prayer is indeed special, it is for and about only those who are His sheep.


Well said:) and arn't all he died for his sheep? I am the good shepard: the good shepard giveth his life for the sheep? John 10:11
I guess this means that only the 12 disciples were the elect and destined to be saved.


Only 12 people? There is a vast number of people over time who are his. God loves me and you as much as he loved Peter, Paul and John and we all get the same Salvation..........Eternal life with our God and creator
 
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