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I quit church

Free said:
In thinking about it some more, it may not actually be that questionable. Where is the line drawn as to who can and who cannot participate in community prayer time? Certainly it is not wise to just allow anyone to participate.
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more rules
Most churches already don't allow anyone other than whites, then they try to control the whites that do go
It's all fitting together now
 
Free said:
I don't see why it would take 11 years or more to figure out if one was attending a good church. It should take no more than a couple of months.


Jesus most certainly had rules, as did the Apostles (all ESV):

Matt. 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."

Matt. 18:1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them
3 and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 "Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me,
6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
...
8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.
9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
...
15 "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
...
21 Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?"
22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

Matt. 19:13 Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people,
14 but Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven."

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
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Oh my Free.
I fear we didn't understand each other.

Oh. And no need to quote Mathew to me. I know it really good.
But it's always nice to read scripture!
Which means that i agree with you.
 
Free said:
In thinking about it some more, it may not actually be that questionable. Where is the line drawn as to who can and who cannot participate in community prayer time? Certainly it is not wise to just allow anyone to participate.
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:eek2

I don't think I've ever used that emoticon before, so this must be serious.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN A CHURCH SHOULDN'T ALLOW JUST ANYONE TO PARTICIPATE?????

Like, WHO, should NOT be ALLOWED to participate?

What do you think are the QUALIFICATIONS for someone TO PARTICIPATE.

I sure hope I misunderstood you.
 
wondering said:
:eek2

I don't think I've ever used that emoticon before, so this must be serious.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN A CHURCH SHOULDN'T ALLOW JUST ANYONE TO PARTICIPATE?????

Like, WHO, should NOT be ALLOWED to participate?

What do you think are the QUALIFICATIONS for someone TO PARTICIPATE.

I sure hope I misunderstood you.
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rules, it's all in the rules
 
wondering said:
Yeah, but what does loving Him first mean then??
That I follow all the rules?

I'm to follow the commandments.
So then the Catholics are right, if I miss Mass, I've commited a mortal sin and am going to hell if I die before i could confess it.
You see...it could get silly.
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But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Galatians 5:18
 
wondering said:
:eek2

I don't think I've ever used that emoticon before, so this must be serious.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN A CHURCH SHOULDN'T ALLOW JUST ANYONE TO PARTICIPATE?????

Like, WHO, should NOT be ALLOWED to participate?

What do you think are the QUALIFICATIONS for someone TO PARTICIPATE.

I sure hope I misunderstood you.
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Do you know where everyone's heart is? If not everyone is a member, do you know if someone is not a Christian or if they might even be anti-Christian? While membership doesn't guarantee those things either, it goes a good distance further to help ensure that those participating have good intentions are actually believers.

If it was a simply a matter of "membership privileges," then that is nonsense. My only point is that there are possible grounds for such a rule.

But of course that all begs the question: if one has been participating in those things for years and wants to continue participating in those things, then why not just become a member? Leaving not only solves nothing, it sows discord.
 
iLOVE said:
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Galatians 5:18
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Right.
That's why I go to church because I want to and feel led by the HolySpirit.
NOT because I have to.

With your post on the alarm clock going off and some finding excuses, what you're saying is that they should be under the Law and go even if they don't want to.

God looks at the heart. If I don't WANT to be in church, I might as well stay home.

If I'm UNDER THE LAW, I go every week no matter what.
IF I'm NOT UNDER THE LAW, I go when it's in my heart to go and enjoy it.
 
wondering said:
Right.
That's why I go to church because I want to and feel led by the HolySpirit.
NOT because I have to.

...
IF I'm NOT UNDER THE LAW, I go when it's in my heart to go and enjoy it.
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That is actually a very spiritually dangerous way of going about it. Being led by emotion and feeling is not the way we are to do things and it most certainly is not the same as being "led by the Holy Spirit". We go to church precisely because we are told to in Scripture, because that is the example we have set before us. There are things we do because we are supposed to, despite how we feel.
 
Free said:
Do you know where everyone's heart is? If not everyone is a member, do you know if someone is not a Christian or if they might even be anti-Christian? While membership doesn't guarantee those things either, it goes a good distance further to help ensure that those participating have good intentions are actually believers.

If it was a simply a matter of "membership privileges," then that is nonsense. My only point is that there are possible grounds for such a rule.

But of course that all begs the question: if one has been participating in those things for years and wants to continue participating in those things, then why not just become a member? Leaving not only solves nothing, it sows discord.
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You blame the one leaving as the one sowing discord.
Maybe it's the discord that causes them to leave.
Why did the prayer group leader not stick up for my wife?
She's not a prayer leader for God.
She's an errand girl for grocery store clerks.
And my wife is not the only one affected here.
 
Allen Wynne said:
You blame the one leaving as the one sowing discord.
Maybe it's the discord that causes them to leave.
Why did the prayer group leader not stick up for my wife?
She's not a prayer leader for God.
She's an errand girl for grocery store clerks.
And my wife is not the only one affected here.
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Yes, discord goes both ways. So then please answer the question: if one has been participating in those things for years and wants to continue participating in those things, then why not just become a member? What is the root issue for not becoming a member?
 
Free said:
Do you know where everyone's heart is? If not everyone is a member, do you know if someone is not a Christian or if they might even be anti-Christian? While membership doesn't guarantee those things either, it goes a good distance further to help ensure that those participating have good intentions are actually believers.

If it was a simply a matter of "membership privileges," then that is nonsense. My only point is that there are possible grounds for such a rule.

But of course that all begs the question: if one has been participating in those things for years and wants to continue participating in those things, then why not just become a member? Leaving not only solves nothing, it sows discord.
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Free,
your last paragraph is your opinion and not something to be argued about. You have your right to this opinion. We've each stated what we believe and it should end there.

But, I am having difficulty with your first paragraphs.
Shouldn't a church be open to all?

What if someone is not a Christian? Maybe he's trying to find out about Christianity.
I'm not sure what you mean about "good intentions". I think everybody who goes to church has good intentions. Intentions do not always transfer to action. Intentions mean little. You could intend to bring me a plate of soup if I'm sick, but if you never bring it, I might go hungry.

There are no grounds, IMHO, for ANY church to tell ANY PERSON, they may not attend a prayer group.
(or any other group).

I just believe this is a very serious matter. What comes next?
 
Free said:
Yes, discord goes both ways. So then please answer the question: if one has been participating in those things for years and wants to continue participating in those things, then why not just become a member? What is the root issue for not becoming a member?
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Okay, show me in the Bible where it says we should become members of local churches?
 
Heb 10:25.surely he didn't mean go to online assembly. There wasn't a global church without local meeting in those epistles named after roman cities
 
Free said:
That is actually a very spiritually dangerous way of going about it. Being led by emotion and feeling is not the way we are to do things and it most certainly is not the same as being "led by the Holy Spirit". We go to church precisely because we are told to in Scripture, because that is the example we have set before us. There are things we do because we are supposed to, despite how we feel.
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I couldn't agree more.
But going to church is not one of them.

Remember to keep Holy the Sabbath.

Maybe we should start a thread on what that means.
Does it mean going to church? That's certainly a part of it.
Then what?

Jesus, as in Mathew, wanted a transformation of the heart. Chapters 5 to 7 deal with the beautitudes.
Jesus said to be humble in Mathew 5:3 The Poor In Spirit.
Did He mean that I should make believe that I'm poor in spirit, or that I really should be?
It's of no value to make believe. God knows what we "feel".
If we're going to church to follow a rule, we're going for the pastor, priest, or friends.
If we're going because we want to be there, then we're going to please God and due to that transformation which will work most times, but, alas, being human, not all times.
 
jasonc said:
Heb 10:25.surely he didn't mean go to online assembly. There wasn't a global church without local meeting in those epistles named after roman cities
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Bible Gateway

Matthew 18:20New International Version (NIV)
20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

Does this verse describe worshiping God?
That's what's known as church.

And the church at Corinth.
Do you think it was one big building in the center of the city?
Or maybe this church consisted of many, many home groups who all received the letters from Paul?
 
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