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I quit church

iLOVE said:
I understand now. You give but don't tithe. You love the Lord, but you don't love Him first. Revelation 2:4-5, Matthew 6:33, Proverbs 11:14, Proverbs 5:11-14
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You need to start a thread on tithing so I can teach you how much you are disobeying Jesus.
 
Free said:
You still aren't understanding what I am saying. It is irrelevant if any of those things apply to you; they are just examples. You stated in the OP: "We will not become members and be forced to follow man made rules....They want membership, they want you to follow the rules, they want to control you in some way. And we don't buy it." That is exactly the point of my analogy.

You would rather sit at home watching a television broadcast, forsaking gathering together with other believers, than commit to a church by becoming a member. You will not be benefited by a local church and they will not be benefited by you, all because you don't want to commit.
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Didn't Paul address the same thing because the church started following the rules of the Pharisees?
rules, rules, rules, you are use to it because you spend your time applying rules to everyone
 
i dunno. speaking as a non-church goer, I get the sense that I'm hardly the only one who's been burned by church people. I know Christians are only human. I also realize that churches exist within a community, so there's going to be a reflection of the community's morals, outlook, lifestyle, etc., but... it seems that an awful lot of Christians end up having bad experiences at churches. I'm thinking here of Protestants. I don't know how things are in RCC land.

the megachurch my dad pops in at now and then really pushes the giving 10% mantra, hard. they also expect people who are to become members to be baptized. My problem there is....well, this is The Bible Belt ("1,000 miles, 1 inch deep"), and my best guess is that the majority of people who go to this church have been baptized at some point. This raises the question...was the previous baptism somehow invalid? Not "good enough"? Even the RCC recognizes baptisms from most Protestant churches as valid. I mention that because it seems that a number of (Protestant) churches have similar rules about membership. I'm no expert, but it doesn't seem to be based in Scripture.

I just...don't...know. Churches seem to have their own agenda, both local ones and denominations, too. I was bored the other day, so I went over to the Charles Stanley ministry website for some inspiration. I've seen him on TV now and then, read some of the stuff in that free publication they send out...he always struck me as wholesome and solid. So, I clicked on this one devotional on the website. It was about praying for the leaders of one's nation. Read a bit, seemed good, then...it gave a list of of things to pray for, regarding the political leaders of one's nation....and it read like something the GOP had put together for them. Seriously. What I thought was going to be about the importance of praying for people in authority turned into instructions to pray for a very right-wing agenda.

I get emails from Sojourners, which is a more liberal/progressive Christian group. They're focused on social justice and such. I dunno. Its like...clearly, I share some of their beliefs, but...now, it rings hollow, somehow. Their "Jesus" wants LGBTQ+trans rights, more of a safety net, and their version of "Christian love." Charles Stanley's "Jesus" wants to shred the safety net, ban abortion, somehow do away with same-sex marriage, and expects "the least of these" to pretty much pick themselves up by their boot straps, and stop asking for "hand outs." Meanwhile, turns out Charles Stanley got divorced not very long ago (his wife filed). The initial deal was that he'd step down if a divorce went thru, but now they're letting him stay, as long he doesn't re-marry.

I just...don't....know. A local politician goes to the megachurch my dad pops in at. I had to do a paper, so I looked up his voting record. pro-guns, pro-military, pro-cops, anti-abortion, anti-LGBTQ, anti-anything that helps poor people. He is (or was, at least...) in charge of "stewardship" for people at this megachurch. I guess they're trying to teach people how to budget wisely (and make room for that 10% cut, of course...)

OK. I didn't mean to ramble quite so much. I guess my point is that I'm kinda disillusioned about churches and church people, and I think that's increasingly true of lots and lots of people....
 
Free said:
Then you incorrectly assumed what my analogy was about. My point is that going to a church and not wanting to become a member is like wanting to live together with a significant other without getting married--all the fun and benefits without the commitment.

Becoming a member of a church shows that one is committed to that church and the leadership. Rather than making a commitment and sticking with it through the tough times, people who don't want to become members of a church likely want to keep their options open, they want to be able to leave whenever they disagree with something or things get messy. Maybe they hear about how great another church down the street is or how something extraordinary is happening somewhere else. Or maybe they just decide they want a younger pastor or congregation. There are any number of reasons.
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If becoming a member was truly like a marriage commitment, then there would be no reason for a church to issue a letter when people 'change' churches. When a person left a church, it would be considered like they were leaving their mate.
 
Christ_empowered said:
I just...don't....know. A local politician goes to the megachurch my dad pops in at. I had to do a paper, so I looked up his voting record. pro-guns, pro-military, pro-cops, anti-abortion, anti-LGBTQ, anti-anything that helps poor people. He is (or was, at least...) in charge of "stewardship" for people at this megachurch. I guess they're trying to teach people how to budget wisely (and make room for that 10% cut, of course...)
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sounds a lot pro Bible
If the government could really help the poor the war on poverty would have been won...
 
i disagree. countries with more extensive social programs have less crime, less poverty, less inequality, and some even have longer life expectancies.

I'm not saying that socialism is the answer, but I don't think that social darwinism is exactly Biblical, either.
 
Christ_empowered said:
i disagree. countries with more extensive social programs have less crime, less poverty, less inequality, and some even have longer life expectancies.

I'm not saying that socialism is the answer, but I don't think that social darwinism is exactly Biblical, either.
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Diet,has nothing to do with that nor well say japan where the 4th amendment isn't a guarentee,or IrelaND where they can jail atheists, or Brittian where your want a nursing home care? Sign over your home.
 
Do not take this out of context because this applies to iLove also. If you set your alarm clock to get up and go to work, and don't set it to get up and go to church on Sunday, mammon (money) is your master. The spirit of mammon will make a person get up on time, shower and groom, put on nice clothes, and arrive on time. When Sunday morning comes...excuses - excuses - excuses! Jesus says mammon is your master and you don't really trust me. Open your bible and read Luke 16.
 
iLOVE said:
Do not take this out of context because this applies to iLove also. If you set your alarm clock to get up and go to work, and don't set it to get up and go to church on Sunday, mammon (money) is your master. The spirit of mammon will make a person get up on time, shower and groom, put on nice clothes, and arrive on time. When Sunday morning comes...excuses - excuses - excuses! Jesus says mammon is your master and you don't really trust me. Open your bible and read Luke 16.
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From the website AllAboutGod.net

Judging Others – You Lose
By judging others in an unbiblical and hypocritical way, we pay an enormous price. In every case, our choice to criticize another person causes severe damage in our lives. Ridiculing others exposes us to the righteous judgment of God, and we bring more suffering on ourselves by our complaints against one another than we are aware of (James 5:9). Judging people and accusing them is what Satan does (Revelation 12:10).1 In addition to ruining other people’s lives, judging others in an unbiblical way:

  • Robs us of hope – Our critical spirit steals our joy and peace, making it impossible to trust in God’s power (Romans 15:13).
  • Attempts to question God’s authority – When we judge another, our sins become magnified in God’s eyes (John 8:3-7).
  • Pollutes our heart – When we judge, we often intend malice, while slandering another person (Mark 7:20-23).
  • Makes us vulnerable to hatred – We plant seeds of unforgiveness and condemnation that take root in our hearts and minds (Proverbs 6:16-19).
  • Places us in opposition to God – Our refusal to humble ourselves cultivates pride (1 Peter 5:5-6
 
Allen Wynne said:
Didn't Paul address the same thing because the church started following the rules of the Pharisees?
rules, rules, rules, you are use to it because you spend your time applying rules to everyone
Click to expand...
But there are rules and there is order. Church and the Christian life isn't some free-for-all.
 
Free said:
Post #91, just a few above yours.
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OK... I read it Free. I understand your point.

I never thought of it this way. I will say that I did join the Nazarene church. It made no difference to me. I did the same things before as I did after. Allen Wynne also stated that he belonged to a church 11 years and that he's been going to church for over 30 years. Maybe one doesn't join because they know they don't like the church? That would be my reason. It's not easy to find a church someone really feels comfortable in.

In the RCC this is not as important. You could go to any one and the service will be the same. In Protestantism it is important to like your church because there are so many variables.

So, as I see it, your analogy would be correct IF I found a good church and refused to join.
Oh. BTW, I also wouldn't join if they had some silly rules. Jesus didn't have any rules --- He only said to believe and follow Him.
 
Free said:
But there are rules and there is order. Church and the Christian life isn't some free-for-all.
Click to expand...
To be fair ,there might be too many rules. Like churches dont add rules or are legalistic. I know my church wouldn't allow an amil teaching on end times.its not the only one here.
 
Christ_empowered said:
i dunno. speaking as a non-church goer, I get the sense that I'm hardly the only one who's been burned by church people. I know Christians are only human. I also realize that churches exist within a community, so there's going to be a reflection of the community's morals, outlook, lifestyle, etc., but... it seems that an awful lot of Christians end up having bad experiences at churches. I'm thinking here of Protestants. I don't know how things are in RCC land.

the megachurch my dad pops in at now and then really pushes the giving 10% mantra, hard. they also expect people who are to become members to be baptized. My problem there is....well, this is The Bible Belt ("1,000 miles, 1 inch deep"), and my best guess is that the majority of people who go to this church have been baptized at some point. This raises the question...was the previous baptism somehow invalid? Not "good enough"? Even the RCC recognizes baptisms from most Protestant churches as valid. I mention that because it seems that a number of (Protestant) churches have similar rules about membership. I'm no expert, but it doesn't seem to be based in Scripture.

I just...don't...know. Churches seem to have their own agenda, both local ones and denominations, too. I was bored the other day, so I went over to the Charles Stanley ministry website for some inspiration. I've seen him on TV now and then, read some of the stuff in that free publication they send out...he always struck me as wholesome and solid. So, I clicked on this one devotional on the website. It was about praying for the leaders of one's nation. Read a bit, seemed good, then...it gave a list of of things to pray for, regarding the political leaders of one's nation....and it read like something the GOP had put together for them. Seriously. What I thought was going to be about the importance of praying for people in authority turned into instructions to pray for a very right-wing agenda.

I get emails from Sojourners, which is a more liberal/progressive Christian group. They're focused on social justice and such. I dunno. Its like...clearly, I share some of their beliefs, but...now, it rings hollow, somehow. Their "Jesus" wants LGBTQ+trans rights, more of a safety net, and their version of "Christian love." Charles Stanley's "Jesus" wants to shred the safety net, ban abortion, somehow do away with same-sex marriage, and expects "the least of these" to pretty much pick themselves up by their boot straps, and stop asking for "hand outs." Meanwhile, turns out Charles Stanley got divorced not very long ago (his wife filed). The initial deal was that he'd step down if a divorce went thru, but now they're letting him stay, as long he doesn't re-marry.

I just...don't....know. A local politician goes to the megachurch my dad pops in at. I had to do a paper, so I looked up his voting record. pro-guns, pro-military, pro-cops, anti-abortion, anti-LGBTQ, anti-anything that helps poor people. He is (or was, at least...) in charge of "stewardship" for people at this megachurch. I guess they're trying to teach people how to budget wisely (and make room for that 10% cut, of course...)

OK. I didn't mean to ramble quite so much. I guess my point is that I'm kinda disillusioned about churches and church people, and I think that's increasingly true of lots and lots of people....
Click to expand...
Hey CE

I'll say this for the RCC: They do not ask for money. Not in any of the ones I've been two and I'm talking about NY and here.
No mention at all unless they need money for a project that is serious and extra funds are necessary. I know that priests (I'm talking about here) are paid from Rome. A pretty good amount too if you consider that they have no family to support.

Our pastors, OTOH, MUST ask for money because everything depends on what THEY could bring in. I remember my Nazarene pastor used to take 10% of all the monies. He supported a family and this was his only job so he could dedicate himself to the church.
 
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