first... hi all
first post here ....
second, why try to insist on a false dichotomy...? its not either/or, that Christianity is EITHER practice or creed.... its quite simply both.... there is no way around this, for just as soon as you say something along the lines of "I don't worry about doctrine, I just believe in and follow Jesus".... then as soon as you answer, and eventually you will have to answer these questions, if not for yourself, certainly for others..... questions like "what does it mean to "believe"? and "who is Jesus?" you have entered the realm of doctrine and creed.... if Christianity were not a belief system where propositions are stated and required for all adherents we would not have the bible commanding us to believe in theological propositions of all sorts... consider the proposition: "God exists"... certainly every Christian is required to believe this statement.... and so too, should every Christian be able to say WHY they believe that such a propositions is true... for just as the Christian is commanded to preach the gospel to all nations... he or she is also commanded to be able to give an account as to what they believe and why.... and to be able to defend why they believe what they believe when someone questions their faith... eg 1 Peter 3:15 (ESV)
15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect" .
Usually those who eschew doctrine mean well.... they are trying to be pious, but, IMHO, its a misplaced and unfortunately, unbiblical emphasis on subjective individual experience. Christianity is both an individual's personal experience of faith, but it is also a corporate public faith. Christianity has always included "the church", a body of believers who adhered to the same basic sets of beliefs, this is, after all, at least part of what sets apart a Christian from any other religion. Christianity is comprised of an exclusivistic mindset, of rigid application of the law of non contradiction.... eg believe X is true, insist that any contradiction of X to be false.....
next on this point, consider the following statement:
Because Jesus' teachings and warnings are very simple and clear. It is not like many doctrines churches are making up. Doctrines of trinity, OSAS, RCC doctrines, and many more. You should just read the Bible by yourself instead of asking around people what they think. If you are serious and sincere Christian, the Holy Spirit will help you to understand what you need to know.
This is a self referentially false statement. If it is true, that you should just "read the bible for yourself" then why is this person telling you what you should do or not do? Why are they telling you what to believe and not to believe? And make no mistake about it, they are asserting doctrines for you believe. If you do not need people telling you what to believe or what not to believe, then you do not need this person telling you this either, for in the process of telling you what to believe about what you should or should not believe, they are in fact pulling the carpet out from under their own feet and trying to claim that really, you should listen ONLY to what THEY say about how to conduct your Christian experience, that for some reason they are exempt from the command to "read the bible for yourself". So always beware of people telling that "you don't need the church, you just need the bible and Jesus" for really they are, in effect, smuggling in the proposition that you need at least them to tell you what to believe. When such persons, in a wholesale dismissal of "the church" what they are doing is saying that the only church you should listen to is "their church", even if they are the only member of it, which is, sadly, often the case.
Lastly on this subject, this approach to Christianity is also, some would say, ironically, unbiblical in the sense that (1) it is a claim that Bible is simple and clear regarding what the Bible teaches. The Bible itself says that we need teachers (see above), and (2) the Bible itself says "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures." (2 Peter 3:15-16 ESV)
The doctrine of the perspicuity of the bible says that:
"All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all: yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them" (WCF, Chapt I, VII)
so I would disagree with advice which says to not be a part of any forum like this, and just listen to/read the word to the exclusion of being an active participant of the church as a body..... of course you should do both of those things (read to/listen to the word of God), however you are never, as a Christian, doing those things alone.... God the Holy Spirit has promised to give teachers to the church: 1 Corinthians 12:28 (ESV) And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues."
Obviously, if anyone takes a bit of an isolationist position, "hey, its just me and God" or "all I need is Jesus and the bible" they will be in direct disobedience to the very standard of truth they are claiming to being submissive to (!!!).... we need teachers and other members of the body of Christ, for that is what we are, a body, a collection of different people with different gifts which are to compliment one another as the church engages the world, needing each other as "(w)e destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ," (2 Corinthians 10:5 ESV)
Lastly I would not want to confuse you further, but just know that Ellen G White was the founder of what many within the ranks of orthodox Christianity considers to be a cult, eg the Seventh Day Adventists or SDA. At the very least, even if one would want to say that the Seventh Day Adventists are not a cult per se, even granting that point, at the very least you should know that when you do read her, she is not a representative sample of what classical, historical Christianity believes. Secondly I would say to be very careful with N.T Wright as well. He is embroiled in a very important contemporary controversy concerning one of the most important central doctrines of Christianity, namely justification. Justification is a doctrine which seeks to answer how a sinful human being can hope to stand before a holy righteous God. This concerns the very heart of Christianity, forgiveness. His definition of justification is very very different from what historic Protestantism (even back to Augustine) has said about this doctrine. At the very least, just as with EG White, you should know that this individual is at odds with classical historic Christianity on a central doctrine.
PS Ravi Zacharias is a great teacher!!
blessings,
ken
