I would just like to ask some questions.

[cherovis]

EVERYBODY get angry once in a while. Jesus got angry with the money changers in the temple. God gets angry a lot ! He destroys people when He gets angry ! He takes out entire races of people. But don't let that anger define who you are by attaching sin to it. Because when the anger has subsided & is gone, the sin remains.

 

[Mike S]

it seems like that's all unbelievers can do,
is resort to humor and mocking.
people fear what they don't understand,
so the last resort is humor and mocking.
we live in a sad, petty bart simpson world.

I know there are some unbelievers who resort to humor and mocking, but I think many more are content to not comment at all. Just willing to live lives of quiet cooperation with those of us who have different beliefs. It's the trolls who can't resist their own bad behavior who get the attention, but I don't consider them important.

just willing to live lives of quiet cooperation with the devil and worldly things.

Oh, I don't think that's true. God is never done working in any of us. I don't presume to think the unbelievers in my life are any different in that than the rest of us. After all, we preach the Gospel (more precisely, LIVE the Gospel) and plant the seeds, but nothing more. It's God who makes things grow and change or not.

 

[Danus]

So so far we have that people do get angry, but does anyone actually do anything? I mean when you for example hear a person say something really blasphemous intended solely to annoy, or wearing an offensive T-shirt as I mentioned.

It depends on what you mean by "do something". If you mean revenge, or some form of it; that is not what Christ would have of us. That's for natural man.

Personaly, and I think the bible backs this up, revenge is not our right. It's God's and God alone, who holds the right to avenge. Justice? Well that's another issue. But which is it? Justice or Revenge?

 

[Hurairah]

Christ is not about any certain text. It is about a man who came and allowed men to do atrocities to him and yet he forgave them saying, "forgive them for they know not what they do". To ask the fundamental question of why he allowed this and said this, is what leads to enlightenment.

Yeah but the only reason you know of any of that is because there's some text you can point to somewhere and say "this is what happened because it says so here, and I believe this to be the absolute truth".

It depends on what you mean by "do something". If you mean revenge, or some form of it; that is not what Christ would have of us. That's for natural man.

Personaly, and I think the bible backs this up, revenge is not our right. It's God's and God alone, who holds the right to avenge. Justice? Well that's another issue. But which is it? Justice or Revenge?

It has to be justice, as nothing should be done other than for the sake of God ideally. However what God has allowed is fair game, and some revenge as I see it is allowed, like for instance a prayer against the person who wronged you, though the prayer itself should be equal to what you were wronged with. Of course if that's a fellow believer, really one should forgive, but it is allowed. Some people believers and otherwise transgress bounds and it may not be easy to overlook. But really justice can look like "revenge", so for instance if there's speech of a death penalty, one can see that as revenge, but if such is what God commanded, it does not matter what anyone sees it as because it would not only be correct, it would be just because God is Just.

 

[Danus]

It depends on what you mean by "do something". If you mean revenge, or some form of it; that is not what Christ would have of us. That's for natural man.

Personaly, and I think the bible backs this up, revenge is not our right. It's God's and God alone, who holds the right to avenge. Justice? Well that's another issue. But which is it? Justice or Revenge?

It has to be justice, as nothing should be done other than for the sake of God ideally. However what God has allowed is fair game, and some revenge as I see it is allowed, like for instance a prayer against the person who wronged you, though the prayer itself should be equal to what you were wronged with. Of course if that's a fellow believer, really one should forgive, but it is allowed. Some people believers and otherwise transgress bounds and it may not be easy to overlook. But really justice can look like "revenge", so for instance if there's speech of a death penalty, one can see that as revenge, but if such is what God commanded, it does not matter what anyone sees it as because it would not only be correct, it would be just because God is Just.

Revenge and Justice are not synonymous terms.

Justice; is Just behavior or treatment.The quality of being fair and reasonable to a particular standard. Where as "Revenge"; is an action of inflicting hurt or harm on someone for a wrong suffered at their hands. As a "Verb"; it's to Inflict hurt or harm on someone for an injury or wrong done to oneself. They may seem similar, but the difference between Justice and Vengeance or Revenge, comes down to ones motivation or desire; which is clearly a matter of the heart.

So, in this way, they are not the same at all and there is a clear distinction between the two, but only to those who hold a heart for "Mercy". To those that don't, revenge and justice are the same, because when they offer justice, it actually revenge. This can be seen as righteous, but only if the one who offers it is righteous to do so; this is to say they hold the standard. In Christianity, that's God only. For those directly under the curse of the Law of God it's seen as more of a cooperative between them and God.

Obviously we administer Justice in mans law, but for many this is not enough. Take murder for example. Is it enough to kill the murderer? It may be just and it should be, but does it satisfy revenge? Who kills the murderer and walks away satisfied that crime committed by the murderer has been revoked in some way? It does not reverse the crime, bring the person murdered back, or sooth the heart of those hurt. Because this is true, revenge does not satisfy, it simply grows, and justice can not be dealt with a heart set on revenge.

This is illustrated by Paul in James 2:10-13 (NIV) 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. 12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Those trying to keep the law of God are fully under it and must keep all of it to the letter, because if they are guilty of any of it, they are judged under all of the law.

To those that follow Christ, Christ is not just a profit; He is God himself, and offers mercy to those who have faith in Him, and what He's done to purchase them. They understand that they can not follow the law, and in fact no man can. It is for this reason that He is the only way to salvation, under the law. Therefore, because we are offered mercy by God through our faith in Jesus Christ, we offer mercy to others through Jesus Christ, not ourselves. Because as Paul says; "Mercy triumphs over judgment." Revenge is worthless.

 

[childeye]

Christ is not about any certain
text. It is about a man who came and allowed men to do atrocities to him and yet
he forgave them saying, "forgive them for they know not what they do". To ask
the fundamental question of why he allowed this and said this, is what leads to
enlightenment.

Yeah but the only reason you know of any of that
is because there's some text you can point to somewhere and say "this is what
happened because it says so here, and I believe this to be the absolute truth".

I get your point. And yes it is true I have read what are called the accounts of others, and this cannot be helped. Nonetheless, we Know that people believed without ever reading any text. It is the spirit that is presented upon the telling and hearing of it, that is the creation of hope in the believer. For the unbelieving cannot get it, since they don't understand that Satan rules their minds. That is why Jesus says, "forgive them for they know not what they do". For there are powers of darkness in the world that decieve mankind, and Christ is a Light that reveals the lies and exposes the deception. That is why, it is no coincidence that all the apostles were greatly persecuted and most of them murdered for speaking this Truth. And these apostles knew they would be killed for preaching the Truth, by the very people they were seeking to set free.

 

[Hurairah]

Revenge and Justice are not synonymous terms.

Justice; is Just behavior or treatment.The quality of being fair and reasonable to a particular standard. Where as "Revenge"; is an action of inflicting hurt or harm on someone for a wrong suffered at their hands. As a "Verb"; it's to Inflict hurt or harm on someone for an injury or wrong done to oneself. They may seem similar, but the difference between Justice and Vengeance or Revenge, comes down to ones motivation or desire; which is clearly a matter of the heart.

So, in this way, they are not the same at all and there is a clear distinction between the two, but only to those who hold a heart for "Mercy". To those that don't, revenge and justice are the same, because when they offer justice, it actually revenge. This can be seen as righteous, but only if the one who offers it is righteous to do so; this is to say they hold the standard. In Christianity, that's God only. For those directly under the curse of the Law of God it's seen as more of a cooperative between them and God.

Obviously we administer Justice in mans law, but for many this is not enough. Take murder for example. Is it enough to kill the murderer? It may be just and it should be, but does it satisfy revenge? Who kills the murderer and walks away satisfied that crime committed by the murderer has been revoked in some way? It does not reverse the crime, bring the person murdered back, or sooth the heart of those hurt. Because this is true, revenge does not satisfy, it simply grows, and justice can not be dealt with a heart set on revenge.

This is illustrated by Paul in James 2:10-13 (NIV) 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,†also said, “You shall not murder.†If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. 12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Those trying to keep the law of God are fully under it and must keep all of it to the letter, because if they are guilty of any of it, they are judged under all of the law.

To those that follow Christ, Christ is not just a profit; He is God himself, and offers mercy to those who have faith in Him, and what He's done to purchase them. They understand that they can not follow the law, and in fact no man can. It is for this reason that He is the only way to salvation, under the law. Therefore, because we are offered mercy by God through our faith in Jesus Christ, we offer mercy to others through Jesus Christ, not ourselves. Because as Paul says; "Mercy triumphs over judgment." Revenge is worthless.

Notice I mentioned death penalty, which has a hint of government being involved rather than someone taking matters into their own hands. Now if the government is a religious one and they enact the death penalty, that would be justice, an eye for an eye unless the initial victim's family chooses to drop charges, at least according to those in agreement to that standard. So in a way, there is an element of revenge there since it will cure what is in their hearts to an extent to know theirs was avenged.

Regarding what you're saying about the law, that's more of a religious discussion. I don't get what you mean by tried under the whole law. What I believe is, you murder, there's a punishment for that in the afterlife if you did not taste it here first or repent (and have it accepted, something only God can determine and we can never know about for certain). So then your punishment for murder in the afterlife is what it is, and the one who stole and got away with it here without repentance, his punishment will be different. They are not equal, for murder is usually a bigger sin than stealing unless the stealing lead to murders, which it often does.

But my point is, not all sins are equal in magnitude, and everyone will fall into some sin, big or small.

 

[Danus]

Regarding what you're saying about the law, that's more of a religious discussion. I don't get what you mean by tried under the whole law. What I believe is, you murder, there's a punishment for that in the afterlife if you did not taste it here first or repent (and have it accepted, something only God can determine and we can never know about for certain). So then your punishment for murder in the afterlife is what it is, and the one who stole and got away with it here without repentance, his punishment will be different. They are not equal, for murder is usually a bigger sin than stealing unless the stealing lead to murders, which it often does. But my point is, not all sins are equal in magnitude, and everyone will fall into some sin, big or small.

I'm giving you the perspective from a Christian world view in relation to the Gospel of Jesus Christ in answering your questions about anger.

 

[Hurairah]

Gotcha, I do appreciate the responses.

I have another question btw.

So I'm actually a mod on another site, and being a mod on the internet is gives way to some degree of insight let's say.

Do you ever get users who create multiple accounts (using the same IP) and then argue with themselves and create topics that result in lots of arguing? Among users? I mean people with different accounts that all have "different" viewpoints from each other, so the topic creator argues with devil's advocate, but they're all the same person.

Another one is, do you get regular trolls that actually start to target mods that banned them in their trolling due to frustration?

I ask these things because that's what I see on other sites, and I'm just wondering if it's the same on all religious sites. Tbh I appreciate you guys answering my Q's here because if someone asked a troll related question on the site where I'm mod, and I see they're connected using a proxy, I usually ban them without question due to the sheer volume of trolls we get and their habit of starting off their misadventures with these types of questions.

 

[Sparkey]

Some questions, if they are to be answered, should be through Private Message. I'm sure you'll understand.

 

[Hurairah]

Yeah I do, specifically with regards to users with, I dunno, multiple personality disorder? I have no idea what motivates these people to do what they do but being a mod sure is insightful in the way of psychology.

Of course in the battle against trolls perhaps information should be limited. I always give vague reasons for bans so that trolls don't know exactly what alerted the mods.

I realize it's probably suspicious I'm asking all these troll related questions, but one of the major reasons I joined was just after seeing what I did, I was wondering, does it happen to boards for other religions.

 

[divinecloud7]

When I mention T-shirts, it's a bad insult, I mean I can't think of worse. Actually this person (whom I detest) would skulk around the laundromat I would go to, and he's always there. His very appearance annoys me, he has two red streaks on his hair and I suspect him of being so and so I will not mention here. So anyway, I don't go there anymore, plain and simple. Too bad for the laundromat losing my business, but a necessary casualty I suppose, not going to assault my faculties with this person whom I am powerless to address all things given.

This concerns me....

"What about love thy neighbor as thyself, and to good unto others?" LOVE for this is the greatest and sums up the commandments....yet I read oppostion.

"How can we profess to LOVE GOD the heavenly father whom is unseen, yet not love our brother or neighbor who is seen?"

So many times we profess our devotion, our faith, our christianity when in truth we are far from it, and farther from our from the truth itself. Do not let yourselves be decieved , the enemy is stalking around like a lion seeking for whom to devour and destroy. You cannot say I love you in partiality, and have only disbelief to verify it.

Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>

 

[Sparkey]

Hi divinecloud7,

We've not had a chance to get to know each other yet so I don't want to make any assumptions about you. May I simply ask if you have much experience with cultures outside of the experiences of childhood? The reason that I ask isn't about you so much, but I do remember what a young lady from Kenya said about the Maasai tribe and other things that were outside of my direct experience. She spoke of some very beautiful places where she grew up and talked about a beach, because she knew I loved beaches, but she also mentioned dangers that I would not know how to avoid. For instance, we have no native poisonous snakes where I live. None. That's how I can relate to the laundromat story and the guy with two red streaks. I've met people that I would not like to have conversations with. I've also met people who, despite all appearances, were a delight to speak to.

Maybe your concern stems from parts of the story that were better left unsaid?

 

[Hurairah]

Thing is, I don't claim to love everyone, nor do I believe everyone deserves that. Yes I do believe people like our "friend" at the laundromat are misguided, and yeah maybe the kind word is what they need, and certainly I believe that there are good, sound approaches to take with such people given we are in a time of widespread ignorance (according to my beliefs), but as he is now, I can't love such a person and I don't ascribe to beliefs that state I must. In general people are treated in accordance to the circumstance.

I think a guy like him may have potential, he did humbly open the door for me one time, and he wasn't wearing an offensive T-shirt at the time. Tbh I didn't like him as soon as I laid eyes on him the first time, but after he did that I was like "eh, maybe he's not all that bad", but then as weeks went by, this guy is always outside the place, and each T-shirt he puts on is worse than the last, with offensive speech written in huge letters (he wears a large baggy t-shirt). So that made me start to become annoyed with him past simply his appearance. I've had people who's appearances I did not like at first turn out to be nice and humble people, so I'd feel bad about misjudging them. However here is a bit difference since my eyes are being assaulted with offensive material which makes his position quite clear.

 

[Sparkey]

As I read back in the thread, I can see that I mis-understood your reference to tee-shirts. Sometimes when I see the shirts and the large logos emblazoned across them, especially when they are loud Christian (so-called) message, I can not help but hear the message underneath, "Hey, look at me." Maybe I have more in common with the guy at the laundromat then what we have as difference. Our struggles are the same. I still can't help but think that we are to be known by the love that we have, not the tee-shirts we wear.

Even in this thread, my message might be a tiny shout that I'm somehow better than you. I'm not.