Bible Study Idolatry

[Gary]

This is what takes place at the Christ Redeemer statue in Rio de Janeiro.

This is idolatry.
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[Gary]

This is idolatry.

This is also idolatry.

So is this.

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[Obadiah]

Whether they are truly Christians is not the point. Neither you nor I can make that call. The point is that the statue represents a deity, and is therefore an idol. An idol doesn't cease to be an idol if you personally don't worship it or if only non-Christians worship it. If it's a representation of a god or other deity, then it's an idol.

The TOG​

Uh, no, it kind of isn't an idol to anyone who doesn't idolize it. Idolatry as described in the Bible is a state of mind, not just any physical object that some person says is an idol.

As for whether a person who worships an Idol is a Christian or not, yeah, I think we can make that call. I can't judge whether or not the person is truly worshiping it or just using it as a reminder of the true God unless they tell me what they are doing. But if they confess they are worshiping it, then yes, I can make that judgement based on scripture.

 

[Chopper]

I agree Obadiah, and I also agree with you Gary. I have always felt that anything that consumes my attention in the place of God, is an idol. Example: I just bought a new Chevy Corvette (not really) Oh man, have you seen the 2015 model? WOW! Ok, I bought it and now I can't keep my hands off it. I sleep beside it on a cot with lights on so that every time I wake during the night I can see it. God? Oh I'll get around to Him later, right now I'm going for a ride. That to me is a form of idolatry.

So in this case, the car is an idol, and I should not let it take the place of God's ways of making me happy.

There are articles that in other countries are idols, or statues of people, or stuffed animals. If I don't think that those items can do anything for me then I don't see anything wrong with having them....There is a caution though. Demons have to indwell. They would rather dwell in a person. If they can't indwell a person, like a Christian, then they will dwell in an article where they can mess around in your home. A demon can steal your sleep by making noises at night that you don't know what it is and other bothersome things.

I was called to an apartment of a relative who had strange things happening at night. There were noises like someone walking up the stairs and no one was there. Plus other scary things. I went and anointed all the doors and windows while rebuking evil spirits and claiming the apartment for God the Holy Spirit. It worked and there was never another incident. I have been called to other homes doing the same thing.

 

[tim-from-pa]

This is idolatry.

This is also idolatry.

So is this.

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Ooooo. I found yet another good pic of an idol: That's a big and bright-un!

 

[TOG]

The ancient Greeks believed in a god they called Chronos. He was said to be the first god, and was therefore the god of time (hence words like "chronological"). When the other gods were born, Chronos ate them, to keep them from taking over. Eventually, they broke free and did take over. They exiled Chronos to the Uttermost North, but allowed him back for one week a year, at about the time of the winter solstice. The time when Chronos ruled alone was said to have been a golden age, and each year when he returned, that golden age came with him for a short while.

Do we know of anyone today who is said to live in the "Uttermost North" and comes back to civilization every year about at the winter solstice and brings with him a "golden age" where people have the spirit of giving and of love to their fellow man?

The Nordic and Germanic peoples had a god they called Odin (aka Wodin or Wotan), whom Wednesday is named after. Odin had an 8-legged horse, on whom he rode all over the earth.

Numbers are considered very important in mythology, and it is common for things to change, but for numbers to stay the same. Do we know of anyone today who travels around on 8 of something?

Odin also had two ravens, called Mind and Remembrance. They flew all over the earth and told Odin what men were up to, so he could know who was doing right and who was doing wrong.

Do we know of anyone today who "knows if you've been bad or good"?

The TOG​

 

[Ricko]

Paul defined idolatry as covetousness.

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. (Colossians 3:5 NKJV)

 

[Obadiah]

Ooooo. I found yet another good pic of an idol: That's a big and bright-un!

The ancient Greeks believed in a god they called Chronos. He was said to be the first god, and was therefore the god of time (hence words like "chronological"). When the other gods were born, Chronos ate them, to keep them from taking over. Eventually, they broke free and did take over. They exiled Chronos to the Uttermost North, but allowed him back for one week a year, at about the time of the winter solstice. The time when Chronos ruled alone was said to have been a golden age, and each year when he returned, that golden age came with him for a short while.

Do we know of anyone today who is said to live in the "Uttermost North" and comes back to civilization every year about at the winter solstice and brings with him a "golden age" where people have the spirit of giving and of love to their fellow man?

The Nordic and Germanic peoples had a god they called Odin (aka Wodin or Wotan), whom Wednesday is named after. Odin had an 8-legged horse, on whom he rode all over the earth.

Numbers are considered very important in mythology, and it is common for things to change, but for numbers to stay the same. Do we know of anyone today who travels around on 8 of something?

Odin also had two ravens, called Mind and Remembrance. They flew all over the earth and told Odin what men were up to, so he could know who was doing right and who was doing wrong.

Do we know of anyone today who "knows if you've been bad or good"?

The TOG​

Yeah, anyone can make an idol out of anything. I still maintain that it's a matter of the heart of the person, not the object

Paul defined idolatry as covetousness.

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. (Colossians 3:5 NKJV)

Exactly, the attitude of the heart, not physical things themselves.

 

[Gary]

Ooooo. I found yet another good pic of an idol: That's a big and bright-un!

Jeremiah 10....(NKJV)
2 Thus says the Lord:

“Do not learn the way of the Gentiles;
Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven,
For the Gentiles are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the peoples are futile;
For one cuts a tree from the forest,
The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.
4 They decorate it with silver and gold;
They fasten it with nails and hammers
So that it will not topple.
5 They are upright, like a palm tree,
And they cannot speak;
They must be carried,
Because they cannot go by themselves.
Do not be afraid of them,
For they cannot do evil,
Nor can they do any good.”


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[tim-from-pa]

Yeah, anyone can make an idol out of anything. I still maintain that it's a matter of the heart of the person, not the object

That's good. I always wanted one of those Venus statues in my yard, maybe even an upgraded one in a fish pond with endless water coming from an urn or from her mouth. Good conversation piece during a summer party.

 

[reba]

a statue is just a statue until we make it an idol ... A sports figure is just a sports figure unless we idolize them ... we are just our selves until we put self before God.

 

[Blake]

Approaching this one humbly and offering something to think about, likewise letting it be known that I am no authority, likewise a fellow learner in Christ working out his salvation in fear and trembling!

That aside...

Exodus 25, two cherubims of gold are placed on the end of the mercy seat, where God promised to dwell and commune with His people. Further in 26, the ten curtains were crafted with images of the cherubim.

If this is true, then we are not understanding the commandment against idols correctly. If God despises all heavenly depictions, why would He dwell among the Ark of the Covenant, which would be idolatrous by the standards assumed presented in Exodus 20?

I believe it is an issue of the heart. A Christian with even the slightest discernment isn't going to worship an image of Christ as it is Christ Himself. Looking at it as an analogy, consider calling your mother and telling her how much you love her. In doing so, are you loving the phone, or your Mom? Obviously, it's not the phone. The phone is simply a medium in which the message got across and completely trivial.

 

[Gary]

I believe it is an issue of the heart. A Christian with even the slightest discernment isn't going to worship an image of Christ as it is Christ Himself.

Of course it's an issue of the heart. It's also an issue that countless people struggle with. How can anyone say those images of Jesus are harmless when there are people bowing down to them?

The bible strictly forbids the making of these things.

 

[Gary]

Exodus 25, two cherubims of gold are placed on the end of the mercy seat, where God promised to dwell and commune with His people. Further in 26, the ten curtains were crafted with images of the cherubim.

If this is true, then we are not understanding the commandment against idols correctly. If God despises all heavenly depictions, why would He dwell among the Ark of the Covenant, which would be idolatrous by the standards assumed presented in Exodus 20?

The cherubim weren't just something someone decided to add because they looked nice. The instructions on how to construct the ark came directly from God and that includes the placement of the cherubim.

Exodus 25
18 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat.

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[Obadiah]

The cherubim weren't just something someone decided to add because they looked nice. The instructions on how to construct the ark came directly from God and that includes the placement of the cherubim.

Exodus 25
18 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat.

.

It makes no difference if they look nice or not. They are still graven images. So either this proves that not all graven images are forbidden as you claim, or only the using of graven images as idols are forbidden, as the whole context of scripture teaches.

 

[Gary]

It makes no difference if they look nice or not. They are still graven images. So either this proves that not all graven images are forbidden as you claim, or only the using of graven images as idols are forbidden, as the whole context of scripture teaches.

The point is that God told them to put the cherubim on the ark. That makes a big difference. Nowhere in scripture will you find any allowances for the making or possession of graven images.

 

[Blake]

But why would God command something just to order someone to break the command?

 

[TOG]

For those of you who claim that an idol is just what we make it, and if we don't worship it, then it ceases to be an idol, how do you explain this?

The carved images of their gods you shall burn with fire. You shall not covet the silver or the gold that is on them or take it for yourselves, lest you be ensnared by it, for it is an abomination to the Lord your God. (Deut. 7:25 ESV)
​

Even after they have been melted down, God tells us to leave them alone. How much more should we avoid them if they still retain their idolotrous form?

The TOG​

 

[eddif]

Romans 1:19-20
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

When God made the world he used shadows / imagery to show things about himself. When we see creation correctly, our mind should go to the creator.

The following verses (some already quoted by Gary) show the perversion of God's creation.
Romans 1:21-23
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

The imagery God used draws us to God the creator. If we choose not to recognize the creator, then our use of creation can become an idol. Just use creation the right way. Taking it deeper into the area of our imaginations just perverts creation more.

Dealing with imagery is tough. I see repentance / Jesus when I see the kidneys. To worship kidneys instead of Jesus is a precision of the original intent.

eddif

 

[Obadiah]

The point is that God told them to put the cherubim on the ark. That makes a big difference. Nowhere in scripture will you find any allowances for the making or possession of graven images.

I see your point now and I see where we differ on this too. You believe that nothing is ok unless God specifically said it's OK, whereas I believe everything is OK unless God has told us that it's not ok.