If being gay is a sin, why did God make people like that?

[Kelli]

John,
I must say your post has helped me more than anything I have ever heard or read about homosexuality. You need to write a book or get this article published, because it is very informative. I think we as Christians need to understand where people are coming from, so we can understand their pain and teach the truth in love and not from a judgmental high-horse. When I was younger, I worked at a disco which was owned by a gay man. Needless to say I had many of gay friends, that I loved, but as I was a Backslidden christian, I knew their life style was a sin (like mine wasn't). It was hard for me to understand because I thought God condemned them when they were in love. He showed me it was their lifestyle He condemned because He loves them, but this really helps me understand why you shouldn't judge, I was judging God for condemning them (I thought) and judging them for their lifestyle (if it's a sin why on earth would you want to fall in love with the same sex???)

Thank you for you insights...
Kelli

 

[Jon-Marc]

I understand that most Christians consider homosexuality a sin,

No, we don't "consider" it a sin; that simply means an opinion. It is not our "opinion" that homosexuality is a sin; it's a FACT. It is sin just as adultery, lying, stealing, coveting, sex with anyone to whom you're not married, are all sin.

Also, it's not "most Christians"; it's ALL Christians who KNOW it is sin. Anyone who claims to be a Christian and says "I see nothing wrong with homosexuality" or any other sin that God names, should make sure he/she really knows the God who demands holiness and righteousness from His people.

God says in 1 Peter 1:15,16: "As he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation. Because it is written, Be ye holy, for I am holy."

So, are men having sex with men, or women having sex with women, being holy? Do they really think they can ask God to bless their union as a man and a woman can? They are only deceiving themselves if they do.

Too many people, for fear of being accused of condemning or not being loving, tend to accept the sins of others as well as their own sins and say, "It's not THAT bad. God understands and loves me anyway." Yes, He will love you anyway, but He will NOT accept your sin. Neither are we to accept sin in others or ourselves; we are to strive for holiness; God DEMANDS it!

 

[Gabe]

Out of curiosity; what does everyone think of this statement?

...God hates all sin but being gay is very high on God’s evil meter....

 

[Kelli]

Sin is sin, one little tiny teeny sin will keep you out of heaven, (without Jesus) but, if God did have a scale, I think the determining factor would be how much the sin hurt the sinner.

When we sin it doesn't hurt God, or what I mean is, it doesn't make God any less God, it hurts us, His children. If He didn't love us it wouldn't hurt Him in the slightest.

Just as Satan doesn't hate us, he hates God, and if God didn't love us he wouldn't care about us one way or the other. The ONLY way Satan can hurt God is to hurt His children, and that's why he has anything to do with us at all.

Wow kind of got off on a tangent didn't I!

 

[destiny]

Out of curiosity; what does everyone think of this statement?

...God hates all sin but being gay is very high on God’s evil meter....

Sticking with that statement alone: God hates the act of sodomy. He hates it when a people have to walk around thinking those feelings are normal. He must hate it even moreso when the churches have no answers for those who are under the influence of demonic deception, not to mention the complete absence of His power working through the churches out there.
He is merciful to those who abstain from sin for His sake, but even that is a life that settles far below His ability to deliver and set free. God considers all things, and that's why judgment starts at the house of God.

 

[Relic]

I am neither homosexual nor heterosexual.
I am asexual, though I'm also panromantic.

I AM WHAT I AM :yes

Vs.

I AM WHAT I AM NOT :yes








Some people come up with their own terms of definition for a variety of behaviors and, these days, terms of definition are being made up in astounding measures by those who are not quite so aware in the knowledge of the Holy Spirit. Some people have either not come to a place of adamant study in regard to the character of the Holy Spirit, or they have outright rejected it. Many times just because they choose to not want to know, or they have come to learn but refuse to give up carnal minded pleasures. If sin was not pleasurable, it wouldn't be so difficult for the carnal minded to give it up. Sin results in rebuke, and rebuke is not always taken easily by the one who does not want to discard that which is pleasurable to them. If a child enjoys something that is not good for them, will they stop if the parent comes to explain that it will eventually lead to no good? The truth is quite simple, and that is, Only IF the child is willing to obey and take Godly counsel from their parent. Otherwise, the sin (transgression) will continue UNTIL something stark happens to bring about an end to the destructive behavior.

Truth is going to be challenged by those who are not well studied in the absoluteness of it. Truth cannot ever be compromised, but it will be challenged by those who are not well learned of it's inherent rule of order as it is SET by the Holy Spirit of God (God IS Creator Spirit) , that is, the only Absolute Truth, which defines what is Pure vs. that which is Impure in terms of Good, in terms of Holiness, in terms of that which leads to Godly Good in life vs. the opposite of all that.

Isn't it curious.... Devil spelled backward is lived and evil spelled backward is live? The devil is backward/opposite to that which is deemed Holy Pure by HOLY PURE SPIRIT . The definition cannot be altered, else it is a then a lie. Whole truth is that God is NOT a liar. And isn't it curious, that it is in how we live that determines what is constructive or destructive in our lives and what is of the purity of God's Holiness, or not? People who don't think about things like that don't have a clue. They remain in ignorance, and so then a positive change is hindered. Positive change is hindered by ignoring a truth.

Some people just love living in that which belongs to the impure/unholy opposite of a PURE/HOLY Godly standard. God's holiness is never going to be changed. The absolute laws of and in nature and of and in spirit are set. They cannot be changed. IF a person chooses to go against that which is pure unadulterated truth, then they will get that which is of the infidelity; a residing impurity. The Spirit is what we choose. God/Creator determined the truth about what is Holy Spirit, and God determined the truth about what is unholy spirit. It is our choice. Generations have passed on many odd things onto their children. It all started with Adam and Eve going against the pure holiness of the Spirit of a Holy God. God didn't make us without freedom of choice. But he did make the laws of Spirit and of nature absolute. If we as spirits in material bodies insist on making up our own definitions which are totally perverted to what is set as absolute by the only one who Created all things, THEN, we as spirits in material bodies will get perverted results, Period. We have freedom of choice. Sin leads to death ,death of the material and/or death of the spirit. It is up to us to learn what consequences are brought about by our choices. God had clearly shown us the consequences of choices. IT's all in the bible! And, that is why, for some, the reason the bible is a book so many want to silence.

The more I read the Psalms and read it from the perspective of the writer, the more I can understand the carnal vs. the spirit and why we must choose that which fosters life and not that which fosters the death of the Holy as is defined Holy by the Spirit named JHVH/Gd The "I Am that I Am" . The Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth! There is no other religion, no other so called truth that can compare to the Truth that is given to us by the JHVH/Gd, the "I Am that I Am" . We can choose to live by Sin, or we can choose to live by Holiness. God's Pure Holiness, or the opposite of that, which is the Unholiness, that which is defined as the holiness of the thing that is backward to LIFE, and this is the holiness of the spirit given the name Satan, Lucifer, Devil, Sin... etc.

Truth is defined according to the spirit of a thing! All things are of the spirit. Choose which spirit you want to live by and that is what you get, the I Am that I Am. Don't ever forget.... There are both side to the coin, there are both sides to any situation or circumstance in life.

We have a choice. :fight


The HOLY SPIRIT wants us to choose that which is constructive to Holy Life. If a person wants to choose the unholy... well, then, they will have to live with the consequences. The only thing that can save US from committing perform sin is the a SPIRIT-ual cleansing.... a WASHING. People who do not know the Character, will remain blind (in ignorance) having their eyes covered with mud (so to speak) UNTIL they go get a good washing away of the sin.. that was. It doesn't matter how they got into that sin... be it passed down by generational ignorance or be it by a personal decision. ALL sin must be washed away by the process and understanding of the Christ, and of understanding who and what He, Jesus, represents; The HOLY SPIRIT. We fight not against what is flesh and blood, we fight against spirits and principalities. Reading the bible, studying and meditating on the truth in the word helps us to become freed from sin! Far too many people reject that even if they don't know why or what they are rejecting. And so, we are called to bring the GOOD NEWS of Salvation from sin to them, That is why we are called to bring enlightenment to those who are unaware of what a blessing the bible really is!

Too many people see the condemnation of sin, no differently than the child who wants to continue in a poor behavior... they fight and resist the parent who brings correction. Teenagers are notorious for resisting any authority over wrong behavior. They insist that what they are doing is okay, Just because they like what they are doing.... It's sooo much fun to sin! They don't see it as sin because they are too busy having fun in it and making up their own lingo. My generation made up plenty of their own lingo as did other genertations past. However, A Holy Pure God will not change anything about the Whole Truth and nothing but the Absolute Truth of and in nature and the spirit because the Creator does not change the Truth. He speak a thing into being by HIS Absolute Truth. The devil knows this and perverts all that is HOLY Truth in life. The Lucifer was once an Angel of the Lord, worshiping the PURE Holiness of God, but was cast out of that heavenly purity because of taking the God given liberty of free will.... to pervert and try to rule outside of the Absolute Truth of that which keeps us under the protection of a HOLY GOD. We all have a choice to be redeemed by way of Christ Jesus. We must first come to the place of being willing. Being willing to learn of this Truth, being willing to live in The Truth of a Loving HOLY GOD. There is redemption from our past and redemption from our past sins, we have been given the gift of redemption, A way of life that saves us from committing to sin. It's called living in the HOLY SPIRIT by way of our Christ Jesus. That Christ lives in us only IF we come to Him of our own free will. Lucifer.... broke away from that blessing by his own choice, he chose the destruction and so now he is lord over it. But we have freedom of choice to Choose life, that same life that is IN CHRIST JESUS. We take our sins to the cross, Give them up to the cross, allow Christ Jesus to carry the burden of such a heavy load of the condemnation of sin. We are freed from it all to go and sin no more by way of the HOLY SPIRIT living IN and THROUGH us. We as Christians are children of God, We are all subject to discipline. The thing is... those who are against authority of good counsel, of the discipline of the Holy Spirit... they are then grieving the Holy Spirit, and are subject to ungodly consequences of their own commitments to live in sin rather than to live in, abide in the Holy Spirit. It does not come easy to everyone. Children need to grow up! It's time to grow up out of sin. We are all learning and living the process of transformation. It's a choice of which type of transformation one choose to take.... Godly, or ungodly.
Pray to seek after and to choose the Godly, not the ungodly. :amen (so be it)


Long drawn out way of presenting it, but those who know me from long ago know I still am in the process of refining :transformer in the area of writing short explanations. :type

Case closed. :halo


Gospel: Good News

 

[Veritas]

Out of curiosity; what does everyone think of this statement?

...God hates all sin but being gay is very high on God’s evil meter....

Makes me think of James:

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James 2:10

 

[Rick W]

Death came into the world because Adam received an apple taken by Eve.
That doesn't seem so bad on the surface.

Also:

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Christ isn't teaching self-mutilation but how serious sin is. Even looking upon a woman with lust is very serious business.

I can only conclude that our efforts to quantify sin may very well be a useless endeavor.

 

[needhelpplease]

Homosexuality is not something you choose, and to think that way is absurd. Some people are born with it, while other acquire it through childhood abuse and confusion. Some are a product of their environment while others are not.

I think everyone here who thinks you sin to get it should look at the little children that "discover" it around puberty. What have they done to deserve that?

I was so against gay marriage until I saw life for what it is. These homosexuals are people to, and are you going to deny their happiness on this earth? Imagine if you were in their shoes.

 

[Vic C.]

Homosexuality is not something you choose, and to think that way is absurd. Some people are born with it...

Please explain without rationalizing it or using today's political correctness thinking. Modern science still cannot prove without doubt that this so-called "gay" gene exists.

Yes they are people, so are adulterers, thieves, murderers, rapists. etc. We know all this to be sin, as in sinful acts. It makes them "happy" as well, when they commit these acts. Shall we condone their behavior as well?

Overcoming these things is tough, if not impossible without the Grace of God. :amen

 

[animal]

I've always been curious.. What's the deal with hermaphrodites?

 

[Relic]

I've always been curious.. What's the deal with hermaphrodites?

What about those who were born with three legs or two heads or 6 fingers or 6 toes? What about those born with three breasts? What about those born with two wombs? What about those tiny imperfections you see in your own body? Hermaphrodites are dominant in one or the other of the sexes. IF it weren't so they would be able to reproduce themselves without the need of a mate to do so. In such cases, I believe the dominant physical side of the person should seek a mate that is opposite physical side of it. I am not a hermaphrodite, but I happen to be one of those people who was born with some physical flaws not unlike many billions of others in this world. There is rarely man without physical flaw. The perfect speciman of the human body is not all so common anymore. Even Halley Barry will tell you she has a few flaws of her own. And I'm sure that Mr. McSteamy and the McHotty movie star men have a few physical flaws of their own too. Anyone who tries to say that how you were born is how God meant it to be , so may as well go with the flow on the perverse side of life, is not in line with what God's Holy Word. Jesus told us why people are born with defects... He didn't go into detail of why they were born "with" the defects, probably because the story in Genesis explains the fall of man, both from the spiritual and from the physical perspective. But he did tell us what is to become of thsoe types of situations.... He said, (I'm praphrasing here) '...that God's glory might become from out of it. ' In other words, God will use any imperfection in this fallen world, be it spiritual or physical, and show that HIS HOLY SPIRIT can and will be manifest to those who have enough faith and are willing to believe IN HIM to overcome. Jesus walked this earth and proved over and over again that the RESIDING HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD IS THAT WHICH HAS THE POWER TO OVERCOME ALL THAT IS IN THIS FALLEN WORLD.

The material does not determine the rulership over the Spiritual. Contrary to it, God gave us rulership over the material things of this earth, yes, even the carnal urges that are of the beast nature that is in the material manifestation. Have you read the book of Genesis? It is fallen man that has brought about the change in the material things. What about cloning? What about hybrid plants? What about it? Man stews up all types of brew to bring about all types of material things. God knows the evils and the good they will do with the freedom of choice God has given to man. He knew well before it all came about. God is not ignorant of anything. How can a Creator of all things be without knowledge of what will be, what was and what is ? He is NOT a menial God,! He is LORD OVER ALL THAT HE CREATED and IS MERCIFUL in His REDEEMING THOSE WHO SEEK AFTER HIS HEART, THOSE WHO LOOK FOR FORGIVENESS FROM THEIR SIN. HE PROVIDES THE GRACE FOR US TO OVERCOME. My God is Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient. My God wants me to follow that which is pleasing to His Goodness, His Holiness, NOT that unholy things that are of the fallen one. :yes

The material "body" is not what is to rule over our lives!

God is not the author of mans fallen nature.. Mans free choice brought that about.

Remember in the book of Genesis 2:15-25 verse 17 specifically? But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

That didn't just mean material eating, it also meant spiritual eating.
God wanted to protect Adam and Eve from the evil, both carnal wild nature, and the wild spiritual nature that exists.

Evil is only that which is opposite of the sanctified Holiness of God. To choose that purity is to choose to be under the wing of protection of a loving God. To choose to take part in the impure is to walk away from that protection, to be subject to that which is opposite of that which is without mar. In order to get PURE gold, you have to put it through the fire to get rid of it's impurities. In order to glean a good harvest, you must seperate the wheat from the tare. Fallen man has been outside of the Garden of Eden. The only way for us to be redeemed from all the marred in this place is to accept the coming of The Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ, He was/is without sin. His Holy purity is our redemption FROM this marred world. The HOLY SPIRIT is what we take on to overcome this world. If we look on the impurities of this world and dwell on them as IF they are what is the rule,THEN that is what the focus becomes... on the impurity and on what to do with it. IF we do not look to the HOLY SPIRIT to teach us HOW TO LOOK upon the impurities, the so called imperfection, as to HOW to OVERCOME them, then what else is there to live by?

The HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD takes the sour of the lemon and makes lemon aide out of it!

"As a man thinketh, so is he." Jesus did not lie! What we choose to dwell on is what we will experience for however long we choose to dwell on it. HOW we choose to look at it is what will be If we concentrate on it, give it attention, allow it to be a part of us. What eyes do you want to see through? What spirit do you want to live by? Carnal eyes that know not the redemption of the HOLY, Or the eyes of the HOLY SPIRIT of God who brings the redemption, the saving GRACE from which we can choose to live by? We all have freedom of choice. A holy God requires a holy offspring. Any impurities will be pruned off by the gardener/caretaker of the branch or burned by the spiritual fire of the refining. It is the HOLY SPIRIT who tends to propell us towards tending to life for the betterment of all. What type of spirit is prompting you in your thoughts and daily living? Is it of a Holy God who uplifts towards His purpose, or is it of an unholy one, a fallen one who leads astray, who looks steal away the good, who looks to destroy that good that has been planted, who looks to kill all the life out of anything good? We have a choice to make... Choose wisely! so we learn inthe book fo Proverbs. We don't pluck out the eye literally, we pluck out the spiritual eye. People confuse the parables and the metaphors in the bible too much, and by doing so, they have given way in their life to the one who comes to destroy the good... and THAT is the work of the fallen one. We have a lot to learn and a lot of choices to make from moment to moment. Eve was easily tricked by the fallen one, and so she became fallen by accepting the lie, as did her husband Adam. They let loose the firm hold of the Truth of a HOLY GOD. We must be on guard to not lose what the Good Lord has given us. Stand firm on the Love of a Holy God. It's a choice. Read the book of Ephesians. Read the book fo Romans, Read the book of John... and then keep reading... Never stop learning the Good News of redemption and salvation FROM our fallen nature. God wants to bless us all. But we miss the blessing IF we are not willing to recieve all the God Will He offers to us, the Blessings.



There is :help for the hurting, the lost and those who are in need of a good education. There is so much GOOD NEWS in the bible, you just have to get past the revealing of the bad in order to come to see the blessings and the good. The fall of man is revealed from the beginning of his journey to the end of it. The Alpha and the Omega! if revealed in the bible! It's all there! The good the bad and the ugly. We have a choice.... The Good News there for you to receive the blessing of it. We do have a choice! WE CAN OVERCOME THE THINGS OF THIS WORLD! YES WE CAN!!!! Thank you Jesus! :D Choose Life!

 

[animal]

So how do you decide which sex is "dominant"? Outward appearence or the state of the sex organs?

 

[Relic]

So how do you decide which sex is "dominant"? Outward appearence or the state of the sex organs?

There are plenty of women who look like men and even have masculine mannerisms but are clearly gender wise a woman. Same for men, there are plenty of men who look like women and even have feminine mannerisms but are clearly gender wise a man. The bible is clear about not laying down with the same gender to have sexual relations with them. So then going by that logic, I think the state of the sex organs would be how to decide which gender is dominant. I know there are rare cases in which it is difficult to tell which sex organ is more dominant in a person be it male or female. However, just because the rarity of this situation is in existence does not make this a precedence or a determining factor for others to go and decide they don't want their 100% male or 100 % female organs anymore but want to change them into the opposite sex... That is NOT the same situation.

So in such cases that are present with the hermaphrodite, then, that is an answer only the Holy Spirit can answer for the individual. They must pray the Holy Spirit will provide the solution in due time, no matter how long it takes for the answer to come, they must believe and rest assured the Holy Spirit will guide them.

I would think that the HOLY Spirit would not condone the person flip flopping back and forth to one gender or the other as a means to determine which one they like to have as a partner the best. Sex outside of marriage is also a sin against the Holy Spirit of God. The person first must pray Holy Spirit will tell them which gender they are dominant in and which gender they are to foster.
I would think that for two hermaphrodites to be together before they have prayed and have been given an answer to which gender they are dominant in, would be no different than being in a same sex relationship. I believe that Holy Spirit is able to guide the individual as to which gender they are dominant in and to hold fast too being in that regard for the rest of their life.

If you are or know of anyone in this situation, I'm sorry, I cannot personally answer for the person as to which gender they are or are not more dominant. A doctor might be able to help them in that regard. But I would suggest they find a good Christian Doctor who could be trusted to help them. There are far too many secular doctors out there who just want to placate the perversions of others. So spiritual discernment is paramount.

I know that God will give them an answer to which gender is the dominant and to live out the rest of their life in that regard. If they don't have an immediate answer I would think they should wait until they are sure. The HOLY SPIRIT will guide the person in what to do or not do whether to stay celibate or marry.

Sexual relations are not always what drives people. Some choose to not have sex, and that too is okay. The Holy spirit will guide the individual. There are plenty of people who are 100% one gender and have chosen celibacy without it being a problem for them. Sex is not the only thing that makes the world go round. So don't think that these people or anyone else for that matter must put sex on some altar of worship as if it is the most important thing in their life and they can't live without it. To place anything in the position of idolatry is to be against the God. We are to give all credence to God first, then in respective order to family, and fellowship with others. God is always first, Not the sex life of a person. The Holy Spirit is able to help in that respect be it one way or another. But the answer will never be outside of the Holy Will of A Holy God. God does not sanctify a thing Holy so that man can come around to pervert it. Remember, Adam and Eve did that and look at the mess we now have on this earth. So trust the Holy Spirit in guidance and rest in the answer of His Holy Guidance.

But for a person to want to change from one gender to another just because the person wants to change their organs which happen to be clearly 100% male or 100% female is NOT in no way comparable to the situation of those who are born hermaphrodite. And I truly believe that the Holy Spirit will guide the individual in regard to the which gender is dominant.

Pray the Lord help to find answers.


.

 

[animal]

So in cases when the Bible itself is really of no help they should pray and let us know what's up?

 

[Relic]

.

So in cases when the Bible itself is really of no help they should pray and let us know what's up?

When did I say the bible is of no help? :o

Know this, please! I beleive that in order to grow in the Holy Spirit, in order to get to know the character of the Holy Spirit, in order to receive guidance from the Holy Spirit, we must first seek to know Him. How does one get to know anyone but to be in the company of them, but to inquire, and to learn all that is offered about them and from them? In the book of Matthew 6:33 Jesus spoke these words: But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I see a three step process in that one statement.

We must never neglect the giving of our time that is required of us to get to know someone as precious and loving, merciful, forgiving and gracious to us as the person of the Holy Spirit, that same Holy Spirit who was/is embodied in Christ Jesus. Christ Jesus being manifest in human form was ministered by The Holy Spirit of Father God as he was growing up from child to adult. We read of Jesus as a young boy of 12 years old adamant on being with taught by elders of his synagogue so as grow to maturity. Not that the Holy Spirit in Christ was in need of being taught, but the part of Jesus as child that was in need of maturation was the discipline of the flesh (that material being, being fallen from the garden) . Christ Jesus came born into this world in the flesh for our benefit as an example of how the flesh can overcome the sins of the world past present and future, by faith in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. He came to show us the way of salvation, how to overcome through the indwelling Holy Spirit. The human body, without drawing near to Holy Spirit, is nothing but as a wild carnality. The fall of man is what gave up the innocence. The fallen spirit, that one described by many names as mentioned in a previous posting here, is that which comes to tempt. The spirit is manifest in thoughts and thoughts become material things IF concentrated on enough to the fullness thereof. We must not neglect the fact that Jesus too (being in the physical form) was tempted by the one who comes to oppose the indwelling Holy Spirit. Jesus was/is our living example. If we are to overcome the things of this world, we are to seek to know the Holy Spirit, to follow after the example of Christ Jesus.... We too must not neglect our education of the things of God. God knows that the physical body is subject to the spirit. Adam and Eve were negligent of it. Jesus was/is not! He came in the flesh to show us the victory over temptation, that same temptation of which Adam and Even neglected to turn away from. They allowed the fallen one to trick them. And so finally, the time had come (God's timing) for HIS Son to be manifest in the flesh for our example of salvation from (to save from falling into ) sin. To try and understand why the timing of God is the way it is is a futile attempt, all we need do is to seek first the Kingdom of God and to learn of the HOLY SPIRIT. To learn about and get to know the character of the Holy Spirit is so what the bible teaches us about. Through example after example of Holy Spirit of God pleading with man to repent, to obey his commands that are offered for our own protection and offerings to bless us. The old testament must be understood as well as the new testament. They go hand in hand. Writing is one of Father God's means of teaching us. Once we have learned, by route learning... the Holy Spirit's voice becomes more clear to us. The bible is not a book for one to say or event to think that is it is of no help. Scripture teaches us.... as is stated in the book of Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Things don't just happen in an instant. No one would need any schooling if that were the case! If Jesus (come in the flesh) had to grow up from childhood to adult and had to be taught, being educated by the elders, then what makes anyone thing we don't have to be schooled in the teachings of the HOLY SPIRIT? Jesus came as our example. God was loving enough to bring into manifestation HIS Son in the flesh, HOLY SPIRIT COME IN THE FLESH for our example. The Spirit of God Himself come to experience the flesh of a fallen man, to teach fallen man how to overcome by example. Do you grasp what that is all about, A HOLY SPIRIT... The Creator HOLY SPIRIT come to lower himself for our sake, to take on the sins of the world for our sake, to show us the means to overcome this fallen body?

We must not take the bible for granted. The bible is not a book written by men who just made up a bunch of rules and stories. IT IS the TRUTH given to man by HOLY SPIRIT OUR FATHER CREATOR GOD... given to man to write down 'Absolute Truth' for all generations to come. The bible is a material form of learning. How else is the Father going to occupy these material bodies of ours? The flesh is not material made manifest without a need to communicate through our eyes, ears and physical beings. The Spirit is in need of getting through to our flesh. God created us to live in a material world for His glory to be made manifest from out of it. We are to accept the bible as a means of teaching the spiritual in written form . Writing is a material way of getting through to us. Why do people think the bible is not a book of any significance? Jesus studied the torah over and over again until the body was absorbed in subjection to the Holy Word written in it. Until the body obeyed the Holy Spirit, became subject to the teachings of the HOLY SPIRIT. Our bodies don't act upon a thing unless it is given direction from spirit. The HOLY SPIRIT reveals himself through the Holy Word of God. I'll present the scritprure again... Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. And, In the book of Matthew 6:33 Jesus spoke these words: But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

The process by which we learn the things of this world and the things of the HOLY Spirit are multi-fold adn required our participation, not just our presence with mind being somewhere else in a fantasy of some sort! We must give the Holy Spirit our full attention to the Words written, given by inspiration of Him. No daydreaming of other things while we are in His presence. Ahaving an absence of mind is just being mindless of the Holy Spirit. It is rude and I'm sure most people wouldn't even treat their casual friends with such little regard.

I am reading a book right now by Andrew Murray entitled Why Do You Not Believe? If one can get through that book without skipping, without skimming it over quickly, but reading it until each and every sentence is paused upon, pondered until it's profound meaning is sunk deep into your soul, THEN they might have a quickening, and awakening of spirit that would just arouse them to an experience like they've never had before. I'm posting sections of that book in the prayer thread bit by bit. every time I read that book I get something new out of it. The Pilgrim's Progress would be a wonderful book for anyone to read also. Those two books are my suggestion to anyone, in addition to The Bible. Not easy reading by todays’ lowered standards, and not easily digested. But they provide an education unlike many other readings. These books will touch the core of one's being in many ways. I make note: Not all children are acceptable to certain taste as they are being reared. Some taste must be acquired. And some discipline is painful to the soul, but in the long run so very refreshing to the spirit... and so is it with the disciplines of the Holy Spirit who comes to take up residence in the place of an unholy one. I would suggest to give place to Holy Spirit in one's own heart... Be host to His companionship, allow self to get aquainted with the Character of Him... They will never be the same and will be most thankful to Father God for the gift of His presence in their life. " ... the out-going of the soul to Jesus shall be a departure from sin: the enjoyment by faith of the light of His love, shall of itself drive away the darkness. ..."

It’s some really deep heavy stuff but well worth pausing in thought to digesting it until an understanding within one's own spirit is reached to the profound truth of it.
I would also suggest to read the excerpt from chapter 7 of the book Why Do you Not Believe?

Let it sink in till you find understanding, and be made aware...

“ Without faith also no true repentance. Repentance is not only a turning away from sin, which of itself would tend to self-righteousness, but a turning back to God, and this can take place only through faith. Repentance is not a work of one's own power, but a consenting, a cooperation with God's plan, in God's strength, a trustful surrender to the redeeming grace of God. And this can be done only through faith. Repentance is not an actual victory over sin, but the soul has to bring every sin to the feet of the Lord Jesus, the great victor over sin, that He may take it away; and this cannot find place, except by the faith which has acknowledged that He is faithful to forgive sin, and to cleanse from all unrighteousness.

Thus the power of repentance is faith: for the more we trust that Jesus makes us free from sin, the stronger are we to turn away from it. And the power of faith, on the other hand, is also repentance: for the more eager to become freed from sin it causes us to be, the more are we shut up to faith. "Repent ye and believe": he that observes and holds fast both shall be saved. ...

... "Repent ye and believe." See here what Jesus calls us to. Every wish and endeavor after repentance, every remembrance of the sin which is in you, and of which you would be free, must be a summons to faith in that Jesus who is exalted to bestow repentance. Combat every sin, and make renunciation of it at His feet with faith fixed on Him. And let every thought of faith on the other hand be an encouragement to fight more bravely against sin, until at length your whole soul shall be filled with the faith of which it is written: "This is the victory that overcometh the world, even your faith." So shall repentance and faith in due time become entirely one, and the out-going of the soul to Jesus shall be a departure from sin: the enjoyment by faith of the light of His love, shall of itself drive away the darkness. Then shall believing and working no longer be considered as antagonistic, but the soul shall know that a continually renewed faith is the fruit of sanctification, for it carries it on in the strength of Jesus, and continued repentance then gives to faith courage to persevere, experience which it can plead, and the certitude of a full assurance. Soul, why do you not believe? O, pray let it not be because you will not repent. It should not be that you are not willing to make a renunciation of sin. And let it not be that you would first repent and then later on believe. No: let both go together from this moment onwards: "Repent ye and believe."


So no, the bible is not a book without help! Neither is it that good reading is of no significance from the ministering saints of the Holy Spirit! I would hope for no one to be deceived.

Agains, I would suggest to learn of the Character of the Holy Spirit and then to Trust in the Holy Spirit, welcome Him into their life. He will teach and guide them even as they are learning. Learning from the Holy Word of God is a lifetime experience. Get to know Him as well as did Andrew Murray, as well as did the many other of the ministers of old, and any other minister presently who is dedicated and committed to drawing near to God. Beware of false teachers, Universalists and New Agers are tricksters and are of those who are confusing the truth. There are many good ministers past and present from which we can be mentored by, Jesus being our main example of learning and trusting in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God the Father.

again...
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. And, In the book of Matthew 6:33 Jesus spoke these words: But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

There is an ongoing process to seek after and follow...

seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Rick W]

Animal,
Let's just say exceptional cases require exceptional considerations.

------------
Is penicillin good?

/Well, some people are allergic to penicillin.

That doesn't make penicillin bad.
Allergy to penicillin is an exception requiring exceptional considerations.
-------------

Can we please get back to the overall topic?

 

[Reido]

I haven't been on here in a while, for personal reasons, so sorry for the multiple quotes and what may turn out to be a long response.

I understand that most Christians consider homosexuality a sin,

No, we don't "consider" it a sin; that simply means an opinion. It is not our "opinion" that homosexuality is a sin; it's a FACT. It is sin just as adultery, lying, stealing, coveting, sex with anyone to whom you're not married, are all sin.

Also, it's not "most Christians"; it's ALL Christians who KNOW it is sin. Anyone who claims to be a Christian and says "I see nothing wrong with homosexuality" or any other sin that God names, should make sure he/she really knows the God who demands holiness and righteousness from His people.

Due to varying translations of the Bible and certain words in the Bible as well as varying interpretations of the Bible, not all Christians believe it is a sin. Perhaps those people aren't truly Christian or don't know God, but unless that's proven to me I'm not going to say all Christians know it's a sin.

I am neither homosexual nor heterosexual.
I am asexual, though I'm also panromantic.

I AM WHAT I AM :yes

Vs.

I AM WHAT I AM NOT :yes

Um, what?
I'm not sure what you mean or what you're confused about.

Yes they are people, so are adulterers, thieves, murderers, rapists. etc. We know all this to be sin, as in sinful acts. It makes them "happy" as well, when they commit these acts. Shall we condone their behavior as well?

There is a major difference between homosexuality and the other things you mentioned that I think you may have missed.
Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone, unlike the others.
They may all be sins, but they aren't all the same.

 

[LostSoul]

By the way, God does not hate the gay person, He only hates the sin of being gay.

Agreed, for the price of sin itself as a whole...NOT any one in particular is death. Scripture even clearly states this.

Romans 6:23 (King James Version) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

No doubt, homosexuality is frowned upon. Not to mention something of which God is not in favor of. Just cannot see how it is more evil than other sins such as murder and the like. When it too can be forgiven. The only unforgivable sin mentioned in the bible is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 12:31(King James Version) Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

I apologize for any offense caused. None was meant.

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[Vic C.]

There is a major difference between homosexuality and the other things you mentioned that I think you may have missed.
Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone, unlike the others.
They may all be sins, but they aren't all the same.

Hello, I missed nothing. I won't argue with you, but I challenge the idea that homosexuality hurts no one. Druggies, alcoholics, adulterers, etc. use that same sort of rationalization.

Example; you are a wife and you find out your hubby is cheating on you, with another man! You may have been able to resolve and overcome the situation had it been a woman. Instead, the idea of it being a man instead is too much to bear. You fall into a severe state of clinical depression. You also find out you just contracted an STD that your husband got from his male partner. Your family is torn apart and your children are affected in ways that are almost impossible to deal with.

But homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone...

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: