[_ Old Earth _] If humans evolved from apes, where is our tail?

[lordkalvan]

"...This is incorrect, we are apes..."

Delineate the species of apes that resulted in H.s.s.

Please specify what you mean by 'delineate' and what evidence would be acceptable to you as providing this delineation.

 

[Crying Rock]

We are apes..fact.

Only because we define ourselves as so.

 

[Crying Rock]

"...This is incorrect, we are apes..."

Delineate the species of apes that resulted in H.s.s.

Please specify what you mean by 'delineate' and what evidence would be acceptable to you as providing this delineation.

Something like this would be fine:

http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html

 

[lordkalvan]

Please specify what you mean by 'delineate' and what evidence would be acceptable to you as providing this delineation.

Something like this would be fine:

http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html

If you're saying that the linked site provides the delineation and evidence acceptable to you, then it seems to me that there is nothing more that needs to be said. If it does one or the other, or neither, you need to be more precise about what is lacking from your point of view.

 

[Crying Rock]

I guess you didn't note the big question mark before Homo ergaster:

http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html

 

[lordkalvan]

I guess you didn't note the big question mark before Homo ergaster...

Which doesn't answer my question.

 

[Crying Rock]

I guess you didn't note the big question mark before Homo ergaster...

Which doesn't answer my question.

What question is that? All I see, with any kind of certainty, is Home ergaster on represents the human lineage. Everything before has a big question mark.

 

[lordkalvan]

[quote="Crying Rock":r8xbkojn]I guess you didn't note the big question mark before Homo ergaster...

Which doesn't answer my question.

What question is that? All I see, with any kind of certainty, is Home ergaster on represents the human lineage. Everything before has a big question mark.[/quote:r8xbkojn]
Well, this -

Please specify what you mean by 'delineate' and what evidence would be acceptable to you as providing this delineation.

and this -

If you're saying that the linked site provides the delineation and evidence acceptable to you, then it seems to me that there is nothing more that needs to be said. If it does one or the other, or neither, you need to be more precise about what is lacking from your point of view.

 

[Crying Rock]

What certain lineage, prior to Ergaster, is ancestral to H.s.s.:

http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html

 

[lordkalvan]

What certain lineage, prior to Ergaster, is ancestral to H.s.s.:

http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html

What is your definition of certainty? What type and degree of evidence do you consider acceptable? I am of the opinion that Barbarian is correct in his determination that the demand for evidence is couched in such a way that you 'know' it cannot be fulfilled; there will always be a degree of 'uncertainty' that will admit the immediate exclusion of provided evidence as unsatisfactory.

 

[Crying Rock]

What certain lineage, prior to Ergaster, is ancestral to H.s.s.:

http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html

What is your definition of certainty? What type and degree of evidence do you consider acceptable? I am of the opinion that Barbarian is correct in his determination that the demand for evidence is couched in such a way that you 'know' it cannot be fulfilled; there will always be a degree of 'uncertainty' that will admit the immediate exclusion of provided evidence as unsatisfactory.

So you have no answer to my question?

 

[Barbarian]

And that's the closest thing to a concession we'll get from Crying Rock.

 

[Crying Rock]

And that's the closest thing to a concession we'll get from Crying Rock.

What certain lineage, prior to Ergaster, is ancestral to H.s.s.:

http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html

 

[lordkalvan]

http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html[/url]

What is your definition of certainty? What type and degree of evidence do you consider acceptable? I am of the opinion that Barbarian is correct in his determination that the demand for evidence is couched in such a way that you 'know' it cannot be fulfilled; there will always be a degree of 'uncertainty' that will admit the immediate exclusion of provided evidence as unsatisfactory.

So you have no answer to my question?[/quote:3fto0ao7]
I have answers. but I need clarification as requested above. Why are you unwilling to provide it? Are you afraid that it might commit you to having to acknowledge that such evidence has been provided?

 

[VenomFangX]

We have vestigial tails at the bottom of our spine. The amount of evidence supporting evolution is stupendous and even the Holy See has accepted evolution as fact supported by evidence just as they recanted on Galileos world view of the Non Centrist view of the Earth and the Sun.
quoted from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_ ... lic_Church

The position of the Catholic Church on the theory of evolution has moved over the 150 years since the publication of Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species in 1859 from a long period with no authoritative pronouncement from the Vatican, to a statement of neutrality in the 1950s, and then to more explicit acceptance by the late 20th Century. Today, the Church's official position remains a focus of controversy and is fairly non-specific, stating only that faith and scientific findings regarding human evolution are not in conflict, though humans are regarded as a "special creation", and that the existence of God is required to explain the spiritual component of human origins,

My own Church has views which also support theistic evolution, not in the scientific sense but with a sense of purpose and integrity with spirituality.

The Eastern Orthodox Church is divided in two large categories, which might be labeled as compatibilism and incompatibilism.

On the one hand, compatibilists hold that science and theology are compatible and view them as complementary revelations of God. As God is the source of both his specific revelation of himself in the Christian faith and the source of the general revelation of himself in nature, the findings of science and theology cannot really contradict; the contradictions must be merely apparent and a resolution possible which is faithful to the truth of God's revelation

.

On the other hand, incompatibilists hold that science can be incompatible with faith. They usually argue either that science is philosophically based on a kind of naturalism or that God's specific revelation is infallible and therefore trumps the findings of human reason in the case of any conflict between them. This is often based on a suspicion of human reason to arrive at reliable conclusions in the first place

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_e ... dox_Church
As repeated so often human beings Homo Sapien Sapiens are a species of ape, not the same one as those which like to swing from tree to tree. God created the heavens and the earth as in Genesis and did include evolution in his plan, as most likely he knew it would work. I am sure the Lord God had more pressing things to do than spend eternity thinking when and how he could create human beings when another method could work more efficiently. I am sure if we could have biomechanoid cars we would most likely use that idea. Imagine cars that could grow and fix themselves and evolve into new models and even fix them selves. :rolling
yours
VFX

 

[Crying Rock]

...We have vestigial tails at the bottom of our spine. The amount of evidence supporting evolution is stupendous...

"Stupendous", ey? Then you should have no problem coming up with 5-6 peer reviewed papers that conclude that "We have vestigial tails at the bottom of our spine" that are unequivocally equal to "vestigial" ape tails.

Let me give you a tip: Listen to your instructors and answer how they would like you to. But always think for yourself. Instructor's have their belief systems, just as all of us do. As a graduate student from The University of Texas, I learned this principle quickly. The University of Texas is ultra liberal. but I learned how to speak my heart without pissing the professors off. I always presented my hypotheses with counter hypotheses.

 

[Barbarian]

"Stupendous", ey? Then you should have no problem coming up with 5-6 peer reviewed papers that conclude that "We have vestigial tails at the bottom of our spine" that are unequivocally equal to "vestigial" ape tails.

A quick search turns up:

VESTIGIAL ORGANS ARE EVIDENCE OF EVOLUTION
Bruce G. Naylor Laboratory for Vertebrate Paleontology Departments of Geology and Zoology The University of Alberta Edmonton, Alberta T6G 2E3
Evol. Theory, 1982

...

Human Tails
Pediatric Surgery International
Springer Berlin / Heidelberg
ISSN 0179-0358 (Print) 1437-9813 (Online)
Issue Volume 9, Numbers 1-2 / January, 1994
The embryology of the human fetus and evolution of orthograde man from pronogrades explains the occurrence of human tails and suggests probable etiopathology.

...

Evolution of the female pelvis and relationships to pelvic organ prolapse
International Urogynecology Journal
Springer London
ISSN 0937-3462 (Print) 1433-3023 (Online)
Issue Volume 16, Number 4 / August, 2005
Megan Schimpf1 Contact Information and Paul Tulikangas2 Contact Information
(1) Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Connecticut Health Center, 263 Farmington Ave (c/o Kim Giove), Farmington, CT 06030, USA
(2) Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Division of Urogynecology and Reconstructive Pelvic Surgery, Hartford Hospital, University of Connecticut, 85 Seymour Street #705, Hartford, CT 06106, USA

Received: 7 June 2004 Accepted: 14 November 2004 Published online: 15 January 2005
Abstract The female pelvis provides support for the lower limbs as well as for the gastrointestinal tract, the bladder, and the reproductive organs. It must also serve as a passageway for defecation, urination, and, possibly, delivery of an infant. The bones, ligaments, and muscles of the human female pelvis have evolved from our early ancestors. Pelvic organ prolapse may occur because of the limitations involved with adapting the pelvic bones, muscles, and ligaments previously used for other purposes into a supportive role. Here we review these changing roles and functions of nonhuman primate and human female anatomy.

...

DNA sequencing
F Sanger, S Niklen, RA Coulson - Proc Nat Acad Sci, 1977

 

[VenomFangX]

Instructor's have their belief systems, just as all of us do. As a graduate student from The University of Texas, I learned this principle quickly. The University of Texas is ultra liberal. but I learned how to speak my heart without pissing the professors off. I always presented my hypotheses with counter hypotheses.

That means little to me but thanks for the advise. No one listens to a lecturer but one reads the information from the libraries all of which give supporting evidence: it is this evidence that the lecturer is speaking about. I doubt if they would have their job very long if they were giving mere opinion and stating it as supported evidence. Being biased leads to ignorance which is a tragedy if not a calamity.
yours
??????????

 

[Crying Rock]

I doubt if they would have their job very long if they were giving mere opinion and stating it as supported evidence. Being biased leads to ignorance which is a tragedy if not a calamity.

Then, young grasshopper, you have much to learn. Strive for a critical mind!

 

[Barbarian]

VenomFang expresses doubt:
I doubt if they would have their job very long if they were giving mere opinion and stating it as supported evidence. Being biased leads to ignorance which is a tragedy if not a calamity.

Then, young grasshopper, you have much to learn. Strive for a critical mind!

That's what he just did. And you found it objectionable.