If Jesus Preached in Your Church, Which Bible Would He Use?

[Jim Parker]

Point of this thread being he didn't use scripture that would make him look the liar like some of these new easy to understand versions do..

That's not much of a point since there is no translation that "would make him look the liar" as the "KJ only" line of nonsense asserts.

The newer versions are in modern English which is the language currently spoken by contemporary English-speaking people rather than the Late Middle English of the KJV which is not spoken anywhere by anybody.

The translators of the newer versions have available more reliable sources from as early as within a generation of the original texts rather than the 12th century Byzantine texts used by Erasmus. (0ver a thousand years after the original texts)

The KJV uses the Textus Receptus, generated by the Roman Catholic scholar Erasmus, which renders the Greek: ὑμεῖς ἀνάβητε εἰς τὴν ἑορτήν ταύτην ἐγὼ οὔπω ἀναβαίνω εἰς τὴν ἑορτὴν ταύτην ὅτι ὁ καιρὸς ὁ ἐμὸς οὔπω πεπλήρωται

The modern versions use the Morphological GNT which is based on older and more reliable manuscripts which were not available to Erasmus. The word οὔπω in the phrase ἐγὼ οὔπω ἀναβαίνω (TR) is not in those better manuscripts.
ὑμεῖς ἀνάβητε εἰς τὴν ἑορτήν ἐγὼ οὐκ ἀναβαίνω εἰς τὴν ἑορτὴν ταύτην ὅτι ὁ ἐμὸς καιρὸς οὔπω πεπλήρωται

The reason that the "not yet" is not in the modern versions is, again, because it is not in the better Greek sources which were not available to Erasmus. To suggest that using a better source makes Jesus a liar is beyond absurd.

And if you choose to insist that the newer (and better) sources make Jesus a liar, what do you say to Jesus' statement at Mat 12:40 (KJV) "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."? We know that those words were not an accurate description of what actually happened; Jesus rose ON THE THIRD DAY and NOT after "three days and three nights." That is exactly what He told His disciples he would do. (Mat 16:21; 17:23; 20:19; Luk 9:22; 18:33; 24:46)

Both "three days and three nights" and "on the third day" cannot be accurate.
So your beloved KJV makes Jesus "look the liar."

The issue is not that the translations that make Jesus "look the liar." The issue is the lack of understanding of language, translation, and exegesis and a among those who get suckered into the "King James Only" nonsense.

 

[turnorburn]

Oh i do insist.. says here these versions make him a liar..

Would he use a Bible that makes him a liar, as the NIV and ESV do in John 7:8?

John 7:8-10 (KJV) Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come. When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee. But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.

(NIV) “You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee. However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.

(ESV) “You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.” After saying this, he remained in Galilee. But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.

Sometimes it’s hard for me to believe how many Christians will accept version upon version of the Bible that shows their Lord to be a liar, as the NIV, ESV, and so many others plainly do, but it would be crazy to think Jesus would carry a book to the pulpit that has him breaking the law he came to fulfil.

"The issue is not that the translations that make Jesus "look the liar." The issue is the lack of understanding of language, translation, and exegesis and a among those who get suckered into the "King James Only" nonsense."

Satan hates the King James Bible.. else why the attack? Oh your one of "Those Guys" a King James only freak.. been seeing much too much of these assults

 

[reba]

Lets try this again..

John 7:8-10 (KJV) Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come. When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee. But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.

(NIV) “You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee. However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.

(ESV) “You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.” After saying this, he remained in Galilee. But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.

Both version change the words making him a liar "yes or no"

no

 

[reba]

Seems to me it depends on our understanding of the passage... Jesus is God God is omnipresent .. Limiting Him to human doesn't seem like a good idea

His Word is His Word even if written on a Hallmark card

 

[turnorburn]

Not going means not going.. agree?

Never mind.. why not just bring this thread to a close... Seems I'm the only one that sees it..

 

[jasonc]

I don't see the difference.if you want to be that anal about translation kindly adress the addition of words by the translators in the kjv.words mean something

 

[markathome]

John 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

Sorry but if your King is the King James like the group above then.............

 

[turnorburn]

One more time...

Sometimes it’s hard for me to believe how many Christians will accept version upon version of the Bible that shows their Lord to be a liar, as the NIV, ESV, and so many others plainly do, but it would be crazy to think Jesus would carry a book to the pulpit that has him breaking the law he came to fulfil.

Like i said i guess I'm the only one here that sees it..

 

[turnorburn]

This is the simple question asked by Jack McElroy in his book, Which Bible Would Jesus Use? (Also available for Kindle.)

The mere question would be laughed off by modern scholarship as too absurd to consider.

But this question deserves serious consideration by any genuine follower of Christ. After all, the Bible is Jesus’ book, and so picking the one he would have us use is certainly something we should do!

Would Jesus use a Bible that gives Satan his own title in Isaiah 14:12?
Isaiah 14:12 (KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Revelation 22:16 (KJV) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

The NIV gives Satan the title Jesus has plainly reserved for himself:

Isa 14:12 (NIV) How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

Are you okay with that? Do you think Jesus is okay with that? (See this article for more on Lucifer vs the Morning Star.)

McElroy’s book is an excellent addition to the many on the “Which Bible” topic. The tone is easy and conversational, laying out the issues in a manner that makes the answers obvious. In fact, I suspect this will be my new “go to” introductory book for believers new to the topic.

McElroy gives an excellent overview of the preservation and translation of the Bible, presenting a clear and compelling case for why we should trust that the King James Bible is in fact the very word of God without error. His deductive logical arguments are enough to convince any sincere seeker that we can have faith in God’s book as it is preserved to us today.

http://av1611.com/kjbp/blog/if-jesus-preached-in-your-church-which-bible-would-he-use/

 

[jasonc]

One more time...

Sometimes it’s hard for me to believe how many Christians will accept version upon version of the Bible that shows their Lord to be a liar, as the NIV, ESV, and so many others plainly do, but it would be crazy to think Jesus would carry a book to the pulpit that has him breaking the law he came to fulfil.

Like i said i guess I'm the only one here that sees it..

http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/italics.html

Addition because it was needed.yet you seem to ignore that a meaning can be conveyed in another way without loosing the message of the passage.

 

[turnorburn]

i have one bible written by 41 men commissioned by the king that doesn't require me to be fluent in Greek or Hebrew.. Its the pure living word of God.. If i didn't believe that i wouldn't use it..

 

[jasonc]

i have one bible written by 41 men commissioned by the king that doesn't require me to be fluent in Greek or Hebrew.. Its the pure living word of God.. If i didn't believe that i wouldn't use it..

No one is saying it's a bad translation but well its not the only pure translation.you have yet to deal with non English translation that aren't based on the catholic greek translation or hebrew mss.

Spanish ,and other non native English users may use their native language and feel comfortable in doing that.the kjv was written only in fir then.the ESV and NIV bible makers also do other languages.so if they are corrupt who is doing the translation as not the same men who dud the kjv.

The point being a multilingual person will see the words in a better way.spanish helped me understand the kjv english.imagine that.

 

[turnorburn]

Tyndale was burnt for translating the bible.. so far i haven't seen any of these newbie version authors go to the stake.. and we probably never will..

This is a test i use whether its Godly or no..

II Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Satan hates godliness

 

[jasonc]

Tyndale was burnt for translating the bible.. so far i haven't seen any of these newbie version authors go to the stake.. and we probably never will..

Yet ,you want to ignore my point about spanish, haitan only churches in my county where English isn't a forte.if I was one of them I would say my version of the bible.I have two friends who are fluent in three or more.german,french ,spanish,Portuguese, English

So which version should they use when witnessing and teaching? MostMost of they friends are immigrants .

 

[Jim Parker]

Sometimes it’s hard for me to believe how many Christians will accept version upon version of the Bible that shows their Lord to be a liar,

I just showed you how your KJV, according to your methods of interpretation, does the same thing.
But you ignored that. That's what ideologues do. They ignore facts that demonstrate their position to be false. They just pretend that there are no real challenges to their nonsense.

Satan hates the King James Bible.. else why the attack?

NO one is attacking the KJV. (Except in the minds of users of the canned "no thought required" responses that the KJ-Only folk have memorized.)
You are attacking every other version.
You are attacking the use of older and better manuscripts by people many orders of magnitude more qualified than you to do translation.
Satan loves that behavior. It makes Christians look like idiots and reasonable people stay away in droves.

Nice going.

 

[markathome]

This is a test i use whether its Godly or no..

II Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

2 Timothy 3:12 From Original Greek Authorized King James Version
but/moreover ~de
even/then/also ~kai individually/collectively ~pas
to will/have in mind/intend ~thelo to live/living water ~zao
godly ~eusebos in/by/with ~en
Christ/anointed ~Christos Jesus/Yeshua ~Iesous
ensue, follow (after), give... ~dioko

dioko number - 1377

• to make to run or flee, put to flight, drive away

• to run swiftly in order to catch a person or thing, to run after
  1. to press on: figuratively of one who in a race runs swiftly to reach the goal
  2. to pursue (in a hostile manner)

• in any way whatever to harass, trouble, molest one
  1. to persecute
  2. to be mistreated, suffer persecution on account of something

• without the idea of hostility, to run after, follow after: someone

• metaph., to pursue
  1. to seek after eagerly, earnestly endeavour to acquire

metaph., to pursue

1. to seek after eagerly, earnestly endeavour to acquire

To add all the words "shall suffer persecution", is it wrong to add them or not to add them?

So here it is in context with the verse before it.
2 Timothy 3:11-12
persecution ~diogmos
affection, affliction, moti... ~pathema what sort of, what manner of, such as ~hoios
to become/to arise/to be made ~ginomai I/me/mine ~moi
in/by/with ~en Antioch ~Antiocheia
in/by/with ~en Iconium ~Ikonion
in/by/with ~en Lystra ~Lustra
what sort of, what manner of, such as ~hoios persecution ~diogmos
bear, endure ~hupophero even/then/also ~kai
out of/away from ~ek individually/collectively ~pas
supreme in authority ~kurios deliver(-er) ~rhoumai
me/I ~me
but/moreover ~de
even/then/also ~kai individually/collectively ~pas
to will/have in mind/intend ~thelo to live/living water ~zao
godly ~eusebos in/by/with ~en
Christ/anointed ~Christos Jesus/Yeshua ~Iesous
ensue, follow (after), give... ~dioko


One says to
even/then/also individually/collectively
to will/have in mind/intend
live godly Christs Jesus
metaph., to pursue

1. to seek after eagerly, earnestly endeavour to acquire

the other says "shall suffer persecution"

The word ~diogmos sounds like to pursue after something.

 

[turnorburn]

If Jesus Preached in Your Church, Which Bible Would He Use?

Posted on July 30, 2014 by Brandon
(A small review and recommendation of Jack McElroy’s book, Which Bible Would Jesus Use?)

It would be foolish to say he would use no Bible, since he used one during his earthly ministry (Luke 4:16-20; 24:27, etc.).

Would he use a Bible that makes him a liar, as the NIV and ESV do in John 7:8?

John 7:8-10 (KJV) Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come. When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee. But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.

(NIV) “You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee. However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.

(ESV) “You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.” After saying this, he remained in Galilee. But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.

Sometimes it’s hard for me to believe how many Christians will accept version upon version of the Bible that shows their Lord to be a liar, as the NIV, ESV, and so many others plainly do, but it would be crazy to think Jesus would carry a book to the pulpit that has him breaking the law he came to fulfil.

http://av1611.com/kjbp/blog/if-jesus-preached-in-your-church-which-bible-would-he-use/

 

[markathome]

Sounds like they was talking to attend a holy day made into a circus
and Jesus was using it to try and teach them something spiritual,
also Jesus might needed to spend time in prayer to fill up on the Holy Ghost before going forward.
Either way He has the right to change his mine.

John 7:8
ascend ~anabaino
you ~humeis ascend ~anabaino
into/for ~eis her, + hereof, it, that, + ... ~taute
feast, holyday ~heorte I/me/my ~ego
ascend ~anabaino hitherto not, (no...) as ye... ~oupo
ascend ~anabaino hitherto not, (no...) as ye... ~oupo
into/for ~eis her, + hereof, it, that, + ... ~taute
feast, holyday ~heorte that/because/since ~hoti
my/mine ~emos due measure/a measure of time ~kairos
"to make full" ~pleroo hitherto not, (no...) as ye... ~oupo
"to make full" ~pleroo

Notice the repeating words/phrases?

 

[jocor]

John 7:8-10 (KJV) Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come. When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee. But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.

(NIV) “You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee. However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.

(ESV) “You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.” After saying this, he remained in Galilee. But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.

It is obvious that the NIV, ESV and other modern versions translated verse 8 incorrectly. The Greek word "oupo" means "not yet". It does not mean "not". Both Strong and Thayer give the definition as "not yet". The Greek words "me" and "oo" mean "not".

The KJV, however, is not without it's errors as well. One major one is translating the Greek "pascha" as "Easter" instead of "Passover" in Acts 12:4. Another is translating the Hebrew Tetragrammaton (YHWH) as "the LORD" instead of "Yahweh" or "YHWH" (the most major blunder of all).

One thing Yeshua would never do is remove his Father's name from Scripture.

 

[WIP]

One more time...

Sometimes it’s hard for me to believe how many Christians will accept version upon version of the Bible that shows their Lord to be a liar, as the NIV, ESV, and so many others plainly do, but it would be crazy to think Jesus would carry a book to the pulpit that has him breaking the law he came to fulfil.

Like i said i guess I'm the only one here that sees it..

Or is it possible that you're seeing a contradiction that really isn't there? It seems that context would be the key.