If Jesus Was God, Who Do You Say This Jesus Spoke Of?

[for_his_glory]

Jesus didnt even know the Spirit of God until he was about 30 years old proven in Matt 3:16. Nor does any0ne else until God Himself reveals in us who He is and all of his heaven in us just as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16

Jesus wasnt the first to be anointed of God Adam was proven in Gen 3;22. He was the first to become like God to know the difference from man ideas for a god in carnality and the God who is a Spirit and an is the place He resides.


But Christ didnt die, cannot die, Christ is Gods Spirit and anointed man with His Spirit to be in His same image and walk in it as He walks in it. Jesus the man died but not Gods anointing lives on today. He in me and I in Him are one. John 17.


Just as He was in Jesus.

Gods Spirit in man is the only truth, everything else is pure speculations about it.


God is a Spirit, I am His son, because He is the Father of my Spirit. And yes these three are one. Jesus prayed to his God that I be in John 17. But that doesnt make me God no more then it made Jesus a God, we both have the same Father who is God. Jesus was my brother.


The right hand of God is His Spirit in man who will receive Him and obey Him to walk as He walks.


The word of God is in all men who has received from God Himself His word as Jesus did in Matt 3:16.
It is not written on stone nor in ink but in my heart and mind. It is who I am not what I am.


People read that then turn right around and falsely accuse Jesus of being God in spit of what he said of himself and his God who sent him.


So are we all who has received from God the very same as Jesus did in Matt 3:16.


In the beginning of every mans salvation is the word, no one escapes this if they are to know God in who he is.


Amen and Jesus said in John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Jesus never ever claimed he was God and not Gods son and actually stated he wasnt God in the OP that I quoted from Jesus himself in who he said he was in God that he called Father of his Spirit.


God is a Spirit and man is the temple of Him, the place He resides in all who will receive Him to be that temple of Him. Luke 17:20-21.

Jesus didnt even know the Spirit of God until he was about 30 years old proven in Matt 3:16. Nor does any0ne else until God Himself reveals in us who He is and all of his heaven in us just as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16

Jesus wasnt the first to be anointed of God Adam was proven in Gen 3;22. He was the first to become like God to know the difference from man ideas for a god in carnality and the God who is a Spirit and an is the place He resides.


But Christ didnt die, cannot die, Christ is Gods Spirit and anointed man with His Spirit to be in His same image and walk in it as He walks in it. Jesus the man died but not Gods anointing lives on today. He in me and I in Him are one. John 17.


Just as He was in Jesus.

Gods Spirit in man is the only truth, everything else is pure speculations about it.


God is a Spirit, I am His son, because He is the Father of my Spirit. And yes these three are one. Jesus prayed to his God that I be in John 17. But that doesnt make me God no more then it made Jesus a God, we both have the same Father who is God. Jesus was my brother.


The right hand of God is His Spirit in man who will receive Him and obey Him to walk as He walks.


The word of God is in all men who has received from God Himself His word as Jesus did in Matt 3:16.
It is not written on stone nor in ink but in my heart and mind. It is who I am not what I am.


People read that then turn right around and falsely accuse Jesus of being God in spit of what he said of himself and his God who sent him.


So are we all who has received from God the very same as Jesus did in Matt 3:16.


In the beginning of every mans salvation is the word, no one escapes this if they are to know God in who he is.


Amen and Jesus said in John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Jesus never ever claimed he was God and not Gods son and actually stated he wasnt God in the OP that I quoted from Jesus himself in who he said he was in God that he called Father of his Spirit.


God is a Spirit and man is the temple of Him, the place He resides in all who will receive Him to be that temple of Him. Luke 17:20-21.

All I can give is what Jesus already said in whom He is if you take your time and study these scriptures by praying and asking the Holy Spirit teach you. Jesus is the embodiment of God sent down in human form being the word of God in human form to reveal God's love and salvation. Basically Jesus being the very Spirit of God made flesh, 1Timothy 3:16.

Jesus spoke of Him self at times as speaking in the third person called illeism.

Illeism (/ˈɪli. ɪzəm/; from Latin ille: "he; that man") is the act of referring to oneself in the third person instead of first person. It is sometimes used in literature as a stylistic device. In real-life usage, illeism can reflect a number of different stylistic intentions or involuntary circumstances.

Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8


Scriptures that refer the Holy Spirit as being God:
Psalms 139:7, 8; John 14:17; 16:13; Isaiah 40:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10, 11; Zechariah 4:6; Luke 1:35; Ephesians 4:4-6; Romans 5:5; 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21; Jude 1:20

 

[Elijah7777]

Sure He does your salvation is in your own hands where you are to be like Him and in His same image or not and walk in it as He walks in it.

We have two hands, one for giving and one for receiving. Just as we have two feet, one represents the Grace of God and the other represents the Justice of God. Justice is the foot on the ground and Grace is the foot taking us where we want to go.

 

[Free]

Just as we have two feet, one represents the Grace of God and the other represents the Justice of God. Justice is the foot on the ground and Grace is the foot taking us where we want to go.

What does that mean?

 

[GaryMac]

Capitalization or lack thereof is irrelevant to what I am saying.

There is a huge difference between Son and son. It is very revenant in meaning.

Which is also irrelevant to anything I have stated.

Well you said Jesus was God. That isnt revenant?

It's worth noting that you used these pointless points to deflect from what I said.

I know exactly what you said.

Not at all. God is timeless; it is one of those things that make God God. To say "And if it is only confined to God then what is the use in even listening to him. it would mean nothing for us at all," is a non-sequitur.

Yes Love that God is, is timeless. It remains the very same in all who is of it.

I have no idea what your point is here.

I do understand why.

No. That is unbiblical. What John means in 1:1a and 1:2, is that when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence. It means the Word has timeless existence, which is an attribute of God alone.

God word doesn't exist in anyone until He come to you and gives you His word from Himself. It isnt written in ink or on stone at all. It is written in the hearts and minds of all who God has opened in us who He is and all of His heaven in us just as He did win Jesus in Matt 3:16 and all of these we read where God came and gave them His word. the Bible is not the word of God is it an instruction manual for how to receive the word of Gods Fromm God Himself. And for the most part He is widely rejected in favor of mans ideas for a god.

Your continual proof-texting is going to continually lead you astray. You cannot ignore context and expect to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Well if what Jesus said of himself and who he was in God and I should have the same leads me astray, then he was a false profit wasnt he?

You're ignoring what John is saying. After already saying that the Word is timeless, in a loving, intimate relationship with God, and God in nature, he states:

Im not ignoring John at all. The very same Spirit of God that Adam became like, Gen 3:22, is the very same Spirit of God that came to me and I became like. Same One came to Jesus in Matt 3:16 and will com into all who will receive Him until there is no more man to receive Him. So yes Gods word from God Himself is timeless. Sadly few who will receive His word as their own disposition.

Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (ESV)

Actually made by God, Jesus could do noting at all without Him. You just do not believe Jesus in what he said of himself and his God who sent him is all.

So, if we take John at his word, based on what he clearly and plainly states, the Word, which is the Son, cannot have had a beginning; he cannot have come into existence. Basic logic precludes such an idea here. John clearly states "all things . . . and without him was not any thing made that was made." That means everything, spiritual and material. This is reiterated by Paul in 1 Cor. 8:6 and Col. 1:16-17.

I take no man at his own word, only Jesus at his, everything else is mans on ideas about it. If John takes presence over who Jesus said he was in God then John is your god.

This has nothing to do with anything I have said.

Has everything to do with it.

No. The Word is the Son.

The you have not receive from God to be His son as Jesus did.

Rev 19:13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. (ESV)

Only if you obey and receive what he says you would from God Himself. Until then you are god over him dictating to him who he is, what he is, what he can and cannot do. Just as you are doing.

"The Word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:14) as Jesus.

Not for you, His word does not dwell in you at all, you are clear in that, your word is written in ink instead.

This doesn't have anything to do with anything. And, yes, Jesus still exists as the God-man, God in human flesh, albeit glorified flesh after his resurrection.

Not for you bu it has everything to do with who Jesus was and God is and who you are supposed to be the very same with the same mind of God be in you who was in Christ Jesus. And you are very clear that isnt going to happen.

The "he" is absolutely a man. That is the whole point--John is introducing us to who Jesus is. Again:

Actually John was introducing to Jesus in Matt 3:16 who God is. and telling Jesus there is One coming that I cannot give you and what happened? Did not that One come to Jesus by the spirit that He is and open in him who He is and all of His heaven in Jesus? John was correct, he cpuoldnt give Jesus what God did. Nor can Jesus give you what God can, for just as with John all Jesus could do was tell you there is one knocking at your door this day that Jesus cannot give you, and if you, like Jesus did, will let him in, He will come to you and sup with you and be in you just as He did in Jesus. In Adam Gen 3:22, Abraham, Moses, Mary 120. But your rebellion to receive the same Spirit be in you who was in Jesus and all of these you never will know Him and His word has passed right on by you and He will go to another who will.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (ESV)

Exactly in all flesh who will receive Him as Jesus.

Or, as Paul puts it:

Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. (ESV)

I dont follow Pauls doctrine, I follow Jesus doctrine.

This is speaking of the Son's timeless existence as God, becoming human as well. The whole point of which is to show the humility of Jesus as an example for us. There is no greater humility that could be conceived than the Son, as God and agent of creation, becoming one of his creatures in order to die for their salvation by taking their sins upon himself. No greater example of humility, no greater example of love.

If you have not noticed Jesus has been gone for over 2000 years, what remains is the same Spirit of God who was in Christ Jesus. He isnt in you is He?

No, on all counts. The Son has always existed; he entered into time and took on human flesh (John 1:14; Phil 2:6-8).

Yes and Adam was the very first to be Gods son and all who has come to that same knowledge that Adam received from God proven in Gen 3:22 and Gods sons will continue to exist as long as man will become born of Him, born again of God Himself. If you have not been born of God as all of these we read of who were, then there is no way you can be His child at all.

Paul even tried to adopt his doctrine into Gods kingdom, that doesnt work, that is of law, Gods children are born of God same Spirit of mind.

Incorrect. Everyone is who is born of God:

Everyone who is born of God are exactly as He is, perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48.
Continued.

 

[GaryMac]

Rom 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, (ESV)

Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,
Gal 4:5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.
Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
Gal 4:7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God. (ESV)

Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, (ESV)

Believers are sons and daughters by adoption, Jesus is the one and only, the unique, Son of God.

Believers? Believer as with the doctrines of man as Jim Jones, David Koresh, Warren Jeffs, and many others Mormons, Muslims. Baptists, you name it. All of these are believers aren't they?

There is a universe of difference between a belief and letting the God of it come face to face with you, to you personally as He did in these we read of and changed their beliefs into reality. And that is exactly what is lacking in your doctrine for a belief, and that is very very obvious. You have no intent in in see ing God for who He is, but when, or should I say IF, you ever do see Him as He is, He shall be like Him instead of Paul or John or any other man. 1 John 3:2.

You really cannot see that God came to Jesus in Matt 3:16 and changed his whole thinking, his whole disposition, from the laws of the man, the Jews that he was rabbi, teacher of, to be like the God of Love instead can you? That just not compute with you that is very obvious.

Your rebuttal is not with me, it is with Jesus.

And Obviously Paul is your god, you quote him but refuse to quote who Jesus said he was in God and that you should have the same from the Father.

I know exactly why you follow Pauls doctrine. I use to preach it, teach it, taught the trinity. I used to do the same until the same who came to Jesus in Matt 3:16 came to me. He freed Jesus from those man mad beliefs as well.

And here is what Jesus says to you in John 16:23. But you have to resort to someone else's ideas such as Pauls, just as you have followed him instead of what Jesus said below. You might try and think about that and at least consider what Jesus said.

Yo are exactly as these were with Moses, Ex. 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Only difference is you say let Paul speak with you instead of Moses and you will hear.

If I was you I would at least consider what Jesus says.

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

 

[Free]

There is a huge difference between Son and son. It is very revenant in meaning.

But, as I said, it is not relevant as to my argument, which is that Jesus is the unique and one and only son of God, it's an actual title, which is why it's Son of God. He is the Son of God in a very different way that people are children of God.

Well you said Jesus was God. That isnt revenant?

That doesn't have anything to do with it. You stated: "Punctuation wasn't edited in either until about 400 years ago and punctuation can change the whole power in a sentence."

I replied: "Which is also irrelevant to anything I have stated."

That's it. Punctuation has nothing to do with my claim--the Bible's claim--that Jesus is God.

I know exactly what you said.

It doesn't seem like it, since you didn't actually address anything I said.

Yes Love that God is, is timeless. It remains the very same in all who is of it.

He is the problem for anti-Trinitarians when we believe what the Bible says, namely, "God is love" (1 John 4:8, 16).

This gets to the heart of the problem for any unitarian view of God--they simply cannot account for John’s two statements that “God is love” (1 John 4:8, 16). "God is love" is an expression of His essential nature and not merely the idea that He is loving; He cannot not love. If God is not at least two persons, then God cannot be love. The highest and fullest expression of love is that from one person to another (such as in John 15:13). If God's nature is love, then it necessarily must have always been expressed in the highest and fullest expression of at least one person towards another and then reciprocated.

And, since love is intrinsic to his nature, God must have been in loving relationship prior to the creation of time and space, for all eternity past. And that is what we see in John 17:24--that the Father loved the Son, even before creation--as well as John 1:1--"the Word was with God." If God needed creation in order to become love, then he could not be love; love could not be intrinsic to his nature.

If God is a monad (Islam, Arianism, Modalism, Oneness, Unitarianism), that is, he is ontologically one person, an absolute unity, then to say “God is love” means 1) that the Father loved only himself, and 2) that the fullest and proper expression of his love is dependent on creation. This contradicts the statement that “God is love,” as it leaves His love incomplete and deficient, meaning that he cannot be the true God of the Bible.

When we consider the Trinity, however, it all works. There are three distinct persons each truly and fully God, equally possessing the full and undivided essence (one being that is God), having been in and intimate and loving relationship and communion for all eternity past.

It's also worth noting that it is John who wrote that "God is love," in what was among the last of the books of the Bible to be written. He has not only had a long time to think about his time with Jesus and the meaning of all that Jesus said and did, he had already written his gospel. Again, in John 1:1-18, John's purpose is to introduce us to who Jesus is. And in verse 1 he tells us:

In the second clause, "and the Word was with God," it is the Greek pros that is translated as "with." But it isn't merely speaking of being together or near. It is in the accusative and expresses “direction towards,” as in relationship and communion, implying intimacy. It is important to note here that in the Greek the article is present, so it literally reads, "the Word was with [the] God." So, God is a reference to someone other than the Word, at a minimum it is a reference to the Father.

So, John is fully consistent from his gospel to his epistles. God truly is love because the eternally existent Word, being also God in nature, was in a loving relationship with God for all of timeless "eternity past." Only now can we truly say that God is love, that love is intrinsic to his nature because it has been eternally expressed from one person to another.

God word doesn't exist in anyone until He come to you and gives you His word from Himself. It isnt written in ink or on stone at all. It is written in the hearts and minds of all who God has opened in us who He is and all of His heaven in us just as He did win Jesus in Matt 3:16 and all of these we read where God came and gave them His word. the Bible is not the word of God is it an instruction manual for how to receive the word of Gods Fromm God Himself. And for the most part He is widely rejected in favor of mans ideas for a god.

The Word of God has always existed and will always exist, now in the God-man Jesus. The Word always has been and will always remain a divine person.

Rev 19:13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. (ESV)

That is Jesus. There can be no mistaking the very clear statement that "the name by which he is called is The Word of God." It is again worth noting that it was John who received and wrote down this revelation, and it is John who had already referred to the pre-incarnate Son as the Word, in John 1:1, 14.

God's words, those things he has spoken, also always exist, as that is what we have written down in the Bible.

Well if what Jesus said of himself and who he was in God and I should have the same leads me astray, then he was a false profit wasnt he?

My point is that Jesus said a lot more than what you seem to think he said. Where did he say that you "should have the same"?

Im not ignoring John at all.

But you are ignoring many things John states, mainly John 1:1-18, 3:31, and 13:3. You're also ignoring what Jesus says of himself in John 8:23, 58, and in many other places. Jesus is God in human flesh, being both truly God and truly man, which is something neither you nor any other human being will ever be.

The very same Spirit of God that Adam became like, Gen 3:22, is the very same Spirit of God that came to me and I became like. Same One came to Jesus in Matt 3:16 and will com into all who will receive Him until there is no more man to receive Him. So yes Gods word from God Himself is timeless. Sadly few who will receive His word as their own disposition.

The only way Adam and Eve "became like" God, is told to us in Gen. 3:22:

Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” (ESV)

He had sinned, so now he knew what evil was and difference between that and good. That's it. Don't go beyond what is written.

Actually made by God, Jesus could do noting at all without Him. You just do not believe Jesus in what he said of himself and his God who sent him is all.

No, he was absolutely not made by God. That is a false Jesus. John clearly tells us that Jesus was both God and man. Jesus tells us he is both God and man. The rest of the NT tells us Jesus was both God and man.

Your response actually makes John lie. I had given John 1:3:

Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (ESV)

If "all things were made through [the Word], and without him was not any thing made that was made," then it logically follows that the Word cannot have been made. If the Word was made, then that is one thing that was not made through the Word, and John has told a falsehood.

His entire point in 1:1-3 is that the Word (the pre-incarnate Son) is God in nature. It cannot be otherwise.

 

[Free]

I take no man at his own word, only Jesus at his, everything else is mans on ideas about it. If John takes presence over who Jesus said he was in God then John is your god.

But, you don't take Jesus at his word, just like you don't take John at his. Here is some of what Jesus said of himself:

Joh 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. (ESV)

He is claiming to have "descended from heaven." Impossible to be true if he was made and merely a human. So, you have Jesus lying.

Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
…
Joh 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
…
Joh 6:50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
…
Joh 6:62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? (ESV)

And the same. Jesus is clearly claiming to have "come down from heaven" and that heaven was "where he was before."

Joh 8:23 He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
…
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Again, a claim to be from heaven and also "not of this world." Much more significantly, though, in verse 58, Jesus claims identity with God, based on Ex. 3:14. Even if that is denied, as some do, the statement "I am" itself refers to timeless existence, meaning that he is God.

Joh 16:28 I came from the Father and have come into the world, and now I am leaving the world and going to the Father.” (ESV)

Straightforward. Same as all the above.

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. (ESV)

Another clear claim to timeless existence. It should be clear why John wrote what he did in 1:1-18--because it was all based on what Jesus himself said and did.

Has everything to do with it.

No, it doesn't have anything to do with it.

The you have not receive from God to be His son as Jesus did.

I certainly have. How do we become a son of God? Jesus and John tell us:

Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (ESV)

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, (ESV)

Joh 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
Joh 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (ESV)

Salvation--becoming a child of God--is only through faith in Jesus and his work on the cross and allowing him to be Lord of your life.

Only if you obey and receive what he says you would from God Himself. Until then you are god over him dictating to him who he is, what he is, what he can and cannot do. Just as you are doing.

That has nothing to do with what I had given: "Rev 19:13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. (ESV)"

That is a name of Jesus--the Word of God--which I have already explained. Neither you nor anyone else will ever be the Word of God. It would be blasphemous to refer to oneself as such.

Not for you, His word does not dwell in you at all, you are clear in that, your word is written in ink instead.

You are not at all understanding the Bible. I posted: "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:14) as Jesus."

That is speaking of the eternal Word entering into time and taking on human flesh and living among us (see Pihl. 2:5-8). That is clearly referring to Jesus and it will only ever refer to Jesus.

Not for you bu it has everything to do with who Jesus was and God is and who you are supposed to be the very same with the same mind of God be in you who was in Christ Jesus. And you are very clear that isnt going to happen.

I have no idea what your point is. Please keep to the context of each point.

Actually John was introducing to Jesus in Matt 3:16 who God is.

Absolutely not, because Matthew wrote Matthew and John wrote John. I think you really need to learn how to properly read and interpret Scripture.

and telling Jesus there is One coming that I cannot give you and what happened? Did not that One come to Jesus by the spirit that He is and open in him who He is and all of His heaven in Jesus? John was correct, he cpuoldnt give Jesus what God did. Nor can Jesus give you what God can, for just as with John all Jesus could do was tell you there is one knocking at your door this day that Jesus cannot give you, and if you, like Jesus did, will let him in, He will come to you and sup with you and be in you just as He did in Jesus. In Adam Gen 3:22, Abraham, Moses, Mary 120. But your rebellion to receive the same Spirit be in you who was in Jesus and all of these you never will know Him and His word has passed right on by you and He will go to another who will.

I honestly cannot understand what your point is here.

Exactly in all flesh who will receive Him as Jesus.

No. That was in response to: Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (ESV)

Again, that is referring only to the incarnation of the Word, the Son. Nothing more.

I dont follow Pauls doctrine, I follow Jesus doctrine.

It shouldn't matter; they both agree on doctrine. So, if you don't follow Paul, then throw out your Bible. The point being, both John and Paul agree with Jesus that he is God in human flesh.

If you have not noticed Jesus has been gone for over 2000 years, what remains is the same Spirit of God who was in Christ Jesus. He isnt in you is He?

That has nothing to do with what I stated, which was:

This is speaking of the Son's timeless existence as God, becoming human as well. The whole point of which is to show the humility of Jesus as an example for us. There is no greater humility that could be conceived than the Son, as God and agent of creation, becoming one of his creatures in order to die for their salvation by taking their sins upon himself. No greater example of humility, no greater example of love.

Yes and Adam was the very first to be Gods son and all who has come to that same knowledge that Adam received from God proven in Gen 3:22 and Gods sons will continue to exist as long as man will become born of Him, born again of God Himself. If you have not been born of God as all of these we read of who were, then there is no way you can be His child at all.

Again, you're not addressing what I said. You first stated: "And Jesus became his child in Matt 3:16 when he was born of God just as all of these before Jesus who was born of Gods Spirit when He came to them Himself."

I replied: "No, on all counts. The Son has always existed; he entered into time and took on human flesh (John 1:14; Phil 2:6-8)."

The Son of God is absolutely unique, the one and only Son. I even gave several passages which proved that was the case. Yet you still deny it.

Paul even tried to adopt his doctrine into Gods kingdom, that doesnt work, that is of law, Gods children are born of God same Spirit of mind.

I'm not sure what you mean. Paul argued against the law as a means of salvation. He is perfectly consistent with Jesus's message and gospel.

Everyone who is born of God are exactly as He is, perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48.

No, no one is prefect. Those who are truly believers, truly children of God are being made perfect, but perfection won't be reached until Jesus returns or a believer dies and goes to be with Jesus.

 

[Free]

Believers? Believer as with the doctrines of man as Jim Jones, David Koresh, Warren Jeffs, and many others Mormons, Muslims. Baptists, you name it. All of these are believers aren't they?

No, not at all. A believer, in the NT use of the word, is a child of God, a follower of Christ, someone who has put their faith in Christ and his work alone for their salvation. That completely excludes Mormons, Muslims, and certain cult persons like Jim Jones, David Koresh, and Warren Jeffs.

Stick to what the Bible says. Don't go beyond it.

There is a universe of difference between a belief and letting the God of it come face to face with you, to you personally as He did in these we read of and changed their beliefs into reality. And that is exactly what is lacking in your doctrine for a belief, and that is very very obvious. You have no intent in in see ing God for who He is, but when, or should I say IF, you ever do see Him as He is, He shall be like Him instead of Paul or John or any other man. 1 John 3:2.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

You really cannot see that God came to Jesus in Matt 3:16 and changed his whole thinking, his whole disposition, from the laws of the man, the Jews that he was rabbi, teacher of, to be like the God of Love instead can you? That just not compute with you that is very obvious.

No, I don't see it because that is absolutely not what happened in Matt. 3:16. That was God's visible confirmation to those around Jesus, at his baptism, that he was truly God's Son and he was being anointed for ministry. It changed absolutely nothing about Jesus himself.

Your rebuttal is not with me, it is with Jesus.

No, it's with you and only you.

And Obviously Paul is your god, you quote him but refuse to quote who Jesus said he was in God and that you should have the same from the Father.

I have clearly proven this to be wrong.

I know exactly why you follow Pauls doctrine. I use to preach it, teach it, taught the trinity. I used to do the same until the same who came to Jesus in Matt 3:16 came to me. He freed Jesus from those man mad beliefs as well.

And here is what Jesus says to you in John 16:23. But you have to resort to someone else's ideas such as Pauls, just as you have followed him instead of what Jesus said below. You might try and think about that and at least consider what Jesus said.

Yo are exactly as these were with Moses, Ex. 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Only difference is you say let Paul speak with you instead of Moses and you will hear.

If I was you I would at least consider what Jesus says.

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Since I have addressed this already in my previous posts, please deal what I have quoted from Jesus's own mouth, those things which you seem to have conveniently overlooked as they don't fit your doctrine. And there is still much more that can be given.

But, remember, we have to make sense of all that the Bible says about God and about Jesus. Your beliefs are severely lacking. And, if you want to reject Paul's teaching, which is perfectly in agreement with Jesus, then you should throw out your Bible. The entire Bible, the 66 books, are God's revelation to us. Either take it all or take none of it.

 

[Elijah7777]

What does that mean?

You can study the Grace of God and you can study the Justice of God. That would be two different sermons. Then a third sermon would be on how the Grace of God and the Justice of God work together. The phrase “by grace you are saved” comes from Ephesians 2:8–9, one of the most foundational verses.

Justice is one of the beatitudes. I find it is best to get a book to help us understand them. Or AI now a days. "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for justice, for they shall be filled.” (Matthew 5:6)

 

[Free]

Then a third sermon would be on how the Grace of God and the Justice of God work together. The phrase “by grace you are saved” comes from Ephesians 2:8–9, one of the most foundational verses.

How do they work together? They are pretty much opposites (along with mercy)—justice is getting what you deserve; grace is getting what you don’t deserve; (mercy is not getting what you deserve).

Justice is one of the beatitudes. I find it is best to get a book to help us understand them. Or AI now a days. "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for justice, for they shall be filled.” (Matthew 5:6)

Which translation is that? It is part of the rules of this forum to give the translation you are quoting from. It’s important so that we can make sure what is given is accurate (and that copyrights are respected). I can find no translation that mentions “justice;” they all say “righteousness.”

 

[Elijah7777]

How do they work together? They are pretty much opposites (along with mercy)—justice is getting what you deserve; grace is getting what you don’t deserve; (mercy is not getting what you deserve).

Grace does a work in us so that we are born again and a new creation in Christ. This is why we use the feet. The Justice of God is planted firmly on the ground. The Grace of God is the foot that is in the air moving toward the Justice of God. Maybe the feet thing is confusing but we can all understand that the Grace of God is working in us to wash us and cleanse us and transform us into the people God always intended for us to be.

David talks about this in Psalm 139 16. "Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. 16 You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book".

From Conception God does a work in us. WE are given all our gifts, talents and abilites. WE use them to bring praise, honor and glory to God. We see people go out on the stage of life and want all the praise and honor for themselves. They are usually miserable people and a lot of them die from drug overdose. They take drugs to kill the pain because they want to be honored rather than to honor God.

To be born again by the grace of God is to be remade—not just forgiven, but recreated from the inside out. It’s not a metaphor for improvement. It’s a spiritual rebirth, a new beginning rooted in divine mercy and power.
1. Grace Initiates the New Birth

“By grace you have been saved through faith… it is the gift of God.” —Ephesians 2:8

 

[Free]

Grace does a work in us so that we are born again and a new creation in Christ. This is why we use the feet. The Justice of God is planted firmly on the ground. The Grace of God is the foot that is in the air moving toward the Justice of God. Maybe the feet thing is confusing but we can all understand that the Grace of God is working in us to wash us and cleanse us and transform us into the people God always intended for us to be.

David talks about this in Psalm 139 16. "Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. 16 You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book".

From Conception God does a work in us. WE are given all our gifts, talents and abilites. WE use them to bring praise, honor and glory to God. We see people go out on the stage of life and want all the praise and honor for themselves. They are usually miserable people and a lot of them die from drug overdose. They take drugs to kill the pain because they want to be honored rather than to honor God.

To be born again by the grace of God is to be remade—not just forgiven, but recreated from the inside out. It’s not a metaphor for improvement. It’s a spiritual rebirth, a new beginning rooted in divine mercy and power.
1. Grace Initiates the New Birth

Okay, but I'm more interested in answers to the points I made, which are:

1. How do they work together? They are pretty much opposites (along with mercy)—justice is getting what you deserve; grace is getting what you don’t deserve; (mercy is not getting what you deserve).

2. Which translation is that? I can find no translation that mentions “justice;” they all say “righteousness.”

 

[GaryMac]

No, not at all. A believer, in the NT use of the word, is a child of God, a follower of Christ, someone who has put their faith in Christ and his work alone for their salvation. That completely excludes Mormons, Muslims, and certain cult persons like Jim Jones, David Koresh, and Warren Jeffs.

But the beliefs of these exclude you from their beliefs dont they?

Stick to what the Bible says. Don't go beyond it.

Amen -- That has been my motto all along. Sich to who Jesus said he was in god and we should be the very same and in Gods same image that He creates man to be in His same Spiritual image by the Spirit of mind that He is. It is who we are, not what we are though some mans beliefs for a god bout it.

Only God Himself Who is a Spirit of Love and man is the kingdom in which He lives as Jesus said in Luke 17:20-21, opens up in us who He is and all of His heaven in us and not even Jesus could escape that fact in Matt 3:16 so stick with what it says for sure. Good advice.

I don't understand what you're saying here.


No, I don't see it because that is absolutely not what happened in Matt. 3:16. That was God's visible confirmation to those around Jesus, at his baptism, that he was truly God's Son and he was being anointed for ministry. It changed absolutely nothing about Jesus himself.

SO God did not come to Jesus by the Spirit that God is and open in Jesus all of His heaven and who He is in Jesus in Matt 3:16? Take your own advice and follow what the book says.

No, it's with you and only you.

God is in all who will receive Him as Jesus did. But it seems that you exclude yourself from Him, and fall under the beliefs of your own as Jim Jons, David Koresh, Warrn Jefs, Catholics, Mormons, and the alike did and do.

I have clearly proven this to be wrong.

So did the Jews prove Jesus was wrong and had him crucified for being wrong. Truth is Jesus was innocent of all of man false beliefs about him claiming to be God. and still is today. And Jesus is still innocent of mans false charges accusing him of being God instead of Gods child, His son.

Take your own advice and believe what is written. Here try and follow what is written who Jesus said he was in God. Y0ou dont even believe what you read of Jesus, that is very obvious. you believe what others said about hi, from their own perspectives.

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.


John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.


John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.


John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”


John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.


John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you


John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.


John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;


17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.


John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

Since I have addressed this already in my previous posts, please deal what I have quoted from Jesus's own mouth, those things which you seem to have conveniently overlooked as they don't fit your doctrine. And there is still much more that can be given.

I just quoted what Jesus said said from his own mouth. You might try following what he said about himself and his God who sent him to show you the way to have the same in you who was in Christ Jesus.

But, remember, we have to make sense of all that the Bible says about God and about Jesus.

That's the very problem, you yourself is trying to make sense of any of this instead of letting God come to you and open in you all of His heaven where He makes His sense in you, that way it leaves out your own opinions about it. But that isnt going to happen is it, you are to proud of yourself to let God come and open in you His truths.

Your beliefs are severely lacking.

I dont have a belief at all, God is manifest in me and His reality of His truths. You however all that you can relate to is a belief without anything substantial that God puts within man by the Spirit of Mind that he is. Birn again with that same renewing as Jesus received in Matt 3:16. God would open in you if you would deny yourself in your own ways and receive from God as Jesus denied his own was as rabbi for the jewish belief system and received the truth from God Himself that obviously you do not believe Matt 3:16 ever happened.

And, if you want to reject Paul's teaching, which is perfectly in agreement with Jesus, then you should throw out your Bible. The entire Bible, the 66 books, are God's revelation to us. Either take it all or take none of it.

If you need Paul instead of God as Jesus needed God to free hi from mans teachings, then so be it, Paul is your god, your way and the ways of Jesus sin the Father goes by the wayside.

As for me Jesus had it all right by identification with the same father in me who was in him. Your identity is with other men one such as Pauls doctrine that you see as truth instead of God Himself giving you His truths. Paul didnt have it right, Jesus had it right. Jesus dint say let Paul be in me as Paul was in Jesus. Jesus said let the same Spirit of God be in me who was in Hism, and that came to be. How? By stop listing to what man says about it and see ye first the kingdom of Goid instead the kingdom of man.

Where is that kingdom? Take your own advice and stick with what Jesus said in the Bible in Luke 17:20-21, But obviously you will not, you are smarter than Jesus was obviously.

 

[GaryMac]

But, you don't take Jesus at his word, just like you don't take John at his. Here is some of what Jesus said of himself:

Joh 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. (ESV)

He is claiming to have "descended from heaven." Impossible to be true if he was made and merely a human. So, you have Jesus lying.

Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
…
Joh 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
…
Joh 6:50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
…
Joh 6:62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? (ESV)

And the same. Jesus is clearly claiming to have "come down from heaven" and that heaven was "where he was before."

Joh 8:23 He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
…
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Again, a claim to be from heaven and also "not of this world." Much more significantly, though, in verse 58, Jesus claims identity with God, based on Ex. 3:14. Even if that is denied, as some do, the statement "I am" itself refers to timeless existence, meaning that he is God.

Joh 16:28 I came from the Father and have come into the world, and now I am leaving the world and going to the Father.” (ESV)

Straightforward. Same as all the above.

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. (ESV)

Another clear claim to timeless existence. It should be clear why John wrote what he did in 1:1-18--because it was all based on what Jesus himself said and did.


No, it doesn't have anything to do with it.


I certainly have. How do we become a son of God? Jesus and John tell us:

Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (ESV)

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, (ESV)

Joh 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
Joh 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (ESV)

Salvation--becoming a child of God--is only through faith in Jesus and his work on the cross and allowing him to be Lord of your life.


That has nothing to do with what I had given: "Rev 19:13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. (ESV)"

That is a name of Jesus--the Word of God--which I have already explained. Neither you nor anyone else will ever be the Word of God. It would be blasphemous to refer to oneself as such.


You are not at all understanding the Bible. I posted: "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:14) as Jesus."

That is speaking of the eternal Word entering into time and taking on human flesh and living among us (see Pihl. 2:5-8). That is clearly referring to Jesus and it will only ever refer to Jesus.


I have no idea what your point is. Please keep to the context of each point.


Absolutely not, because Matthew wrote Matthew and John wrote John. I think you really need to learn how to properly read and interpret Scripture.


I honestly cannot understand what your point is here.


No. That was in response to: Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (ESV)

Again, that is referring only to the incarnation of the Word, the Son. Nothing more.


It shouldn't matter; they both agree on doctrine. So, if you don't follow Paul, then throw out your Bible. The point being, both John and Paul agree with Jesus that he is God in human flesh.


That has nothing to do with what I stated, which was:

This is speaking of the Son's timeless existence as God, becoming human as well. The whole point of which is to show the humility of Jesus as an example for us. There is no greater humility that could be conceived than the Son, as God and agent of creation, becoming one of his creatures in order to die for their salvation by taking their sins upon himself. No greater example of humility, no greater example of love.



Again, you're not addressing what I said. You first stated: "And Jesus became his child in Matt 3:16 when he was born of God just as all of these before Jesus who was born of Gods Spirit when He came to them Himself."

I replied: "No, on all counts. The Son has always existed; he entered into time and took on human flesh (John 1:14; Phil 2:6-8)."

The Son of God is absolutely unique, the one and only Son. I even gave several passages which proved that was the case. Yet you still deny it.


I'm not sure what you mean. Paul argued against the law as a means of salvation. He is perfectly consistent with Jesus's message and gospel.


No, no one is prefect. Those who are truly believers, truly children of God are being made perfect, but perfection won't be reached until Jesus returns or a believer dies and goes to be with Jesus.

If you are not the same as Jesus was in the Father as God sent that man to show you the way for how to. That is your own decision, but as for me, Jesus had it right and I did follow him to his God that He be in me and I be in Him as one, same mind, same Spirit of mind, same walk as He walks perfect even as my father own heaven is perfect.

If that isnt good enough for you or anyone else then so be it, knowing the same God as Jesus knew my identity is wurh Hi not with you or any other man who only has a belief, and idea who god is and Jesus was.

As you so confirm you do not follow who Jesus said you would be, and perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect just as you state din your last comment You are not perfect as God makes His own to be, You are very clear in that that you do not follow Jesus in what he says you should be.

 

[GaryMac]

We have two hands, one for giving and one for receiving. Just as we have two feet, one represents the Grace of God and the other represents the Justice of God. Justice is the foot on the ground and Grace is the foot taking us where we want to go.

Amen -- Very good.

One hand received from God, the other gives out what God has given me. And I walk as He walks in His same light of mind where His justice lead me where ever I go. IN prisons for over 25 years making friends with inmates, making friends with street people giving of myself to them for over 10 years, food and clothing giving out to them for over 10 years. Giving out my hands what God put in them.

But is isnt so much in going where I wanted to go, but where God wanted me to go, all I did was obey Him.

 

[GaryMac]

All I can give is what Jesus already said in whom He is if you take your time and study these scriptures by praying and asking the Holy Spirit teach you. Jesus is the embodiment of God sent down in human form being the word of God in human form to reveal God's love and salvation. Basically Jesus being the very Spirit of God made flesh, 1Timothy 3:16.

Then why dont you believe him own who he said he was in God instead of others opinions about him?

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.


John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.


John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.


John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”


John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.


John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you


John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.


John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;


17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.


John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

Jesus spoke of Him self at times as speaking in the third person called illeism.

Ys and I quoted about what he did speak of himself and his God who sent him.

Illeism (/ˈɪli. ɪzəm/; from Latin ille: "he; that man") is the act of referring to oneself in the third person instead of first person. It is sometimes used in literature as a stylistic device. In real-life usage, illeism can reflect a number of different stylistic intentions or involuntary circumstances.

First -- Gods Spirit is not a person at all. Second the person can only receive the mind, or Spirit the mind is referred to, that minds knowledge of.

All that you are doing is making excuses not to have the mind of Christ, anointed of Gods spirit of mind.

Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8

Not one place did Jesus say he was God and not Gods son, and you cannot quote anywhere where he did. All that you are doing is quoting mans own opinions for who they thought Jesus was, just as you are doing from your own beliefs.

Scriptures that refer the Holy Spirit as being God:
139:7, 8; John 14:17; 16:13; Isaiah 40:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10, 11; Zechariah 4:6; Luke 1:35; Ephesians 4:4-6; Romans 5:5; 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21; Jude 1:20

Now you are gettin it. God is a Spirit nothing more or anything less, and man is the recipient of His same Spirit of mind, knowledge. Jesus was very clear in that in Luke 17:20-21.

 

[Elijah7777]

2. Which translation is that? I can find no translation that mentions “justice;” they all say “righteousness.”

Deuteronomy 32:4 (KJV)​

“He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.”

The KJV uses the word judgment but this is the word justice that we find in other books of the Bible. Esp the Psalms with David. Is that what you want to do is a word study on this word?

1. How do they work together? They are pretty much opposites (along with mercy)—justice is getting what you deserve; grace is getting what you don’t deserve; (mercy is not getting what you deserve).

Ok, this is verse Exodus 33:13 “Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee…”
And from BibleBC’s study:

“Grace was at work in Moses’ life long before the Law was at work… God’s kindness, compassion, and forgiveness were poured out upon this failure of a man.”

Are you saying you do not agree with this interpretation of the Bible? I attended a church called Grace Cathedral. Because that was the name of the church, I did not question their teaching on the word Grace. This is the first time I have looked at what the Bible (Moses) says. WE could look at how this applies to Jesus also.

Luke 4:22 a "And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth.".

I understand this to mean the word that transform people. The grace of God, the word of God does a work in us to transform us into the people of God. This is what it means to be born again and a new Creation in Christ. To put on the Mind of Christ.

 

[Elijah7777]

One hand received from God, the other gives out what God has given me.

Yes, they say God will give to us what He can get through us to others. When we are a blessing for others a part of that blessing we get to keep for ourselves.

 

[GaryMac]

But, as I said, it is not relevant as to my argument, which is that Jesus is the unique and one and only son of God, it's an actual title, which is why it's Son of God. He is the Son of God in a very different way that people are children of God.

You are not Gods child His son or daughter are you. For you God had only one child. That leaves you completely out of His family doesnt it?

That doesn't have anything to do with it. You stated: "Punctuation wasn't edited in either until about 400 years ago and punctuation can change the whole power in a sentence."

I replied: "Which is also irrelevant to anything I have stated."

That's it. Punctuation has nothing to do with my claim--the Bible's claim--that Jesus is God.

Capital letters and punctuation has everything to do with it. Son or son, has a whole different meaning and misplacement od a simple comma can change the whole meiang os a sentence for instance

Is 59:19. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him

Change that comma to this
When the enemy shall come in, like a flood the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him

That changes the whole complexity, power of that sentence. Mans edicitng the Bible has gone on from the bvery first ancient copies of it. There are no originals only copies of copies and mans own interpretations of them.

It is another matter completely when God Himself come to you and open in you who He is and His truths. And in that you won't beed a bangle at all for God Himself will give it you. But it is obvious that isnt going to happen in you.

It doesn't seem like it, since you didn't actually address anything I said.

Sure I did but spiritually you would have to understand, that is why it is so confusing for you.

He is the problem for anti-Trinitarians when we believe what the Bible says, namely, "God is love" (1 John 4:8, 16).

This gets to the heart of the problem for any unitarian view of God--they simply cannot account for John’s two statements that “God is love” (1 John 4:8, 16). "God is love" is an expression of His essential nature and not merely the idea that He is loving; He cannot not love. If God is not at least two persons, then God cannot be love. The highest and fullest expression of love is that from one person to another (such as in John 15:13). If God's nature is love, then it necessarily must have always been expressed in the highest and fullest expression of at least one person towards another and then reciprocated.

And, since love is intrinsic to his nature, God must have been in loving relationship prior to the creation of time and space, for all eternity past. And that is what we see in John 17:24--that the Father loved the Son, even before creation--as well as John 1:1--"the Word was with God." If God needed creation in order to become love, then he could not be love; love could not be intrinsic to his nature.

If God is a monad (Islam, Arianism, Modalism, Oneness, Unitarianism), that is, he is ontologically one person, an absolute unity, then to say “God is love” means 1) that the Father loved only himself, and 2) that the fullest and proper expression of his love is dependent on creation. This contradicts the statement that “God is love,” as it leaves His love incomplete and deficient, meaning that he cannot be the true God of the Bible.

When we consider the Trinity, however, it all works. There are three distinct persons each truly and fully God, equally possessing the full and undivided essence (one being that is God), having been in and intimate and loving relationship and communion for all eternity past.

It's also worth noting that it is John who wrote that "God is love," in what was among the last of the books of the Bible to be written. He has not only had a long time to think about his time with Jesus and the meaning of all that Jesus said and did, he had already written his gospel. Again, in John 1:1-18, John's purpose is to introduce us to who Jesus is. And in verse 1 he tells us:

In the second clause, "and the Word was with God," it is the Greek pros that is translated as "with." But it isn't merely speaking of being together or near. It is in the accusative and expresses “direction towards,” as in relationship and communion, implying intimacy. It is important to note here that in the Greek the article is present, so it literally reads, "the Word was with [the] God." So, God is a reference to someone other than the Word, at a minimum it is a reference to the Father.

So, John is fully consistent from his gospel to his epistles. God truly is love because the eternally existent Word, being also God in nature, was in a loving relationship with God for all of timeless "eternity past." Only now can we truly say that God is love, that love is intrinsic to his nature because it has been eternally expressed from one person to another.


The Word of God has always existed and will always exist, now in the God-man Jesus. The Word always has been and will always remain a divine person.

Rev 19:13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. (ESV)

That is Jesus. There can be no mistaking the very clear statement that "the name by which he is called is The Word of God." It is again worth noting that it was John who received and wrote down this revelation, and it is John who had already referred to the pre-incarnate Son as the Word, in John 1:1, 14.

God's words, those things he has spoken, also always exist, as that is what we have written down in the Bible.


My point is that Jesus said a lot more than what you seem to think he said. Where did he say that you "should have the same"?


But you are ignoring many things John states, mainly John 1:1-18, 3:31, and 13:3. You're also ignoring what Jesus says of himself in John 8:23, 58, and in many other places. Jesus is God in human flesh, being both truly God and truly man, which is something neither you nor any other human being will ever be.


The only way Adam and Eve "became like" God, is told to us in Gen. 3:22:

Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” (ESV)

He had sinned, so now he knew what evil was and difference between that and good. That's it. Don't go beyond what is written.


No, he was absolutely not made by God. That is a false Jesus. John clearly tells us that Jesus was both God and man. Jesus tells us he is both God and man. The rest of the NT tells us Jesus was both God and man.

Your response actually makes John lie. I had given John 1:3:

Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (ESV)

If "all things were made through [the Word], and without him was not any thing made that was made," then it logically follows that the Word cannot have been made. If the Word was made, then that is one thing that was not made through the Word, and John has told a falsehood.

His entire point in 1:1-3 is that the Word (the pre-incarnate Son) is God in nature. It cannot be otherwise.

 

[JLB]

If Jesus was God, then who do you say this Jesus spoke of who sent him to show us Gods ways for us to be?

Can you answer without editing it and adding into it your own beliefs for it in who Jesus said he was in God?

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:58-59

Why did these Jews who believed in Him pick up stones to stone Him to death?