If lying and murder are the same sin ...

[katsa]

then who's going to Heaven :o

 

[handy]

All those whose sins have been forgiven!

(And, except for the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, all sins can be forgiven.)

 

[TyCowboy]

They are not the same sin...lying is lying and murder is murder.

The problem is one of perception. If you view any sin through the eyes of a sinless and righteous God who can not stand nor be in the presence of sin, then any sin equates to death. That's the rub with sin and the worship of a God who demands perfection.

To the point, however, the previous post is exactly right...through Jesus, all sin can be forgiven if we accept the gift of grace that God extends to us in the form of Jesus. (save the unpardonable sin mentioned above)

Ty.

 

[Vic C.]

Man feels there is a need to "rate" one sin over another; God does not. Good posts Ty and Handy.

 

[kenan]

(And, except for the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, all sins can be forgiven.)

And If you're a true Christian you can't really blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

 

[laura352]

i have trouble explaining blasphemy of the holy ghost to one of my friends. she thinks that it's hypocritical for God to say that He can't forgive that sin. i try to explain to her that it's because the Holy Ghost is our connection to God and if we ruin that connection then how can we get to God, but i dont know if i have gotten through.

 

[Vic C.]

i have trouble explaining blasphemy of the holy ghost to one of my friends. she thinks that it's hypocritical for God to say that He can't forgive that sin. i try to explain to her that it's because the Holy Ghost is our connection to God and if we ruin that connection then how can we get to God, but i dont know if i have gotten through.

Oh Laura, this is such a tough passage to digest. We've attempted a discussion a few times before and several doctoral opinions came up. One is that this is just for those who continually reject God's working of His power through His spirit, to the "point of no return", i.e. their dying in their unbelief. Another is that this passage was only for those unbelieving Jews in the first century and has no bearing on the Church at all.

I lean that way too (the same direction as Kenan) and I like the way CARM explains it:

http://www.carm.org/questions/blasphemy.htm

I hope we didn't just derail the topic. :

 

[believer_in_one]

On the subject between lying and murder. They are both sins according to the Ten Commandments. The only atonement that could be made for these sins was by the blood of the lamb in the old testament. Jesus fulfilled the sacrifice once and for all. Jesus is our propitiation of our sins. His blood covered our sins. We are justified by faith, in his death and the resurrection. The commandent Jesus gave covers all the law: "Love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another." (John 13:34-35) (John 15:12-17) Asking forgiveness for our sins to Jesus, he forgives. That sin is gone forever. We as believing in Christ have the Holy Spirit and therefore are his forever. Whomever we forgive Christ forgives, and whomever we don't Christ does not. (John 20:22-23)(Matt.16:19)(Matt.18:15-19) Only by faith are our sins forgiven. So being covered by Christ then we will be with him in heaven.

Jesus Bless.

 

[bibleberean]

According to the Author and Finisher of Our Faith some sins are greater than others.

John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

All sin is not the same. All sin leads to death but sins are rated differently by God.

God didn't require the death penalty for all sins or the same punishment for all sins in Israel. Read the books of Exodus and Leviticus.

Murderers were dealt with differently than someone who commited manslaughter. Adultery and homosexuality were punishable by death while other sins were not.

Leviticus 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

The following sin did not rate the death penalty.

Leviticus 19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.

Leviticus 19:21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering.

Leviticus 19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

All sin is not the same. Some sins rank higher than others. The word of God and common sense should tell us that.

I wouldn't treat a man who stole my lunch from work the same way I would treat a man who murdered my best friend. They both did wrong but the murderer has the GREATER SIN and the murderer should be dealt with differently than the petty thief.

Some people use the fact that the "wages of sin is death" to play down their own sins or the sins of others. Since some people say that "all sin is the same" they will fellowship with an alleged "Christian minister" who is involved in misconuct such as adultery or homosexuality even thought the bible clearly tells us not to. I have heard the excuse that since there isn't anyone who does not sin we should not separate ourselves from that person.

God does not agree! Here is what the apostle Paul wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

1 Corinthians 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

We treat non-believers differently than believers who are involved with the same sin.

1 Corinthians 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

1 Corinthians 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Exaggerating a hunting story is not as great a sin as slandering and bearing false witness against your neighbor.

Spreading a lie that your next store neighbor is having an affair with the woman who lives at the end of the block is much more serious than exaggerating the size of the fish that got away.

We all need to excercise a little common sense.

 

[handy]

I see what you are saying, bb and I agree with you. Lying and murder are not the same sin. Lying about one's neighbor having an affair and lying about the size of the one that got away isn't the same lie. However any lying at all will indeed keep on out of heaven, if it weren't for the grace of God and His forgiveness to us.

We all have sins that we are far more prone to do than others, and I'll be a little transparent here and admit that lying has been a besetting sin of mine since I was a very small child. I know some might think that it is a terrible God who would so harshly punish a "little white lie" but I know first hand of the damage that lying does, the broken trust, the disrespect and, from the inside, the self-loathing that comes from it. No, lying isn't murder, but it is nonetheless destructive. I praise and thank God that He has provided the means and way of escape from the lies.

 

[bibleberean]

I see what you are saying, bb and I agree with you. Lying and murder are not the same sin. Lying about one's neighbor having an affair and lying about the size of the one that got away isn't the same lie. However any lying at all will indeed keep on out of heaven, if it weren't for the grace of God and His forgiveness to us.

We all have sins that we are far more prone to do than others, and I'll be a little transparent here and admit that lying has been a besetting sin of mine since I was a very small child. I know some might think that it is a terrible God who would so harshly punish a "little white lie" but I know first hand of the damage that lying does, the broken trust, the disrespect and, from the inside, the self-loathing that comes from it. No, lying isn't murder, but it is nonetheless destructive. I praise and thank God that He has provided the means and way of escape from the lies.

All sin is sin that is a fact and the "wages of sin is death" and we are all sinners saved by grace.

We are on the same page. :D

 

[A-Christian]

Scripture (1 John 5:16-17) indicates that there are degrees of sin. Sin does cause one to lose God's grace. Repentance can help you regain that grace. But some sins result in the inability to ever regaining God's grace again.


Peace

 

[OfficerCarson]

in all honesty

the wages of sin is death

either way it does not matter

 

[bibleberean]

in all honesty

the wages of sin is death

either way it does not matter

That isn't true.

Killing someone is a greater sin than stealing a cookie out of mommy's cookie jar.

Jesus says there is a difference in degree of sin.

John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

God does not treat all sin the same. Read Exodus and Deuteronomy.

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

 

[bibleberean]

Also, I have already stated that the wages of sin is death. "All SIN" The issue I have is that God does not deal with every sin in this life the same way. Child molesting is a greater sin than shouting out a profanity when you hit your thumb with a hammer.

Is this rocket science?

Why does the apostle Paul make the distinction between sins which can lead to putting someone out of fellowship in the church?

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.