If the world ends...

[Ennui]

... it's going to be humanity's fault, not god's.

 

[Zero Link]

One Question.. Whos blaming God?

God has no fault in this.. This is all because Satan tricked Adam and Eve, so now we must suffer, also, if we were to get right with God(the whole world) then no we wouldn't be in this situation... But I don't think no one is blaming God here.

 

[Ennui]

Well, if the apocalypse is to come about, and God is going to be responsible (even if it's technically Adam and Eve's fault, or whatever), then he's to blame. It's like making fun of someone, and then saying it's your fault because they went and stabbed someone in anger. God does not have to end the world - and he won't, because we're going to beat him to the punch.

Also, you say that if "the whole world gets right with God", then we wouldn't be in this situation [of God possibly ending the world for our sins]. Doesn't that make God no different - IN THIS CONTEXT ALONE - than, say, Hitler? Hitler murdered people by the millions because they didn't fit his scheme - their race, religion, whatever. The Rapture would be God's way of condemning to hell (which I'm sure most of you would agree, is worse that death) everyone who doesn't believe in him.

Am I correct, or not?

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

If the world ends? Did you say "if"?


2Peter 3:10-13
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

It will be terrible, but only for those who do not want to spend eternity with God. And their world will end someday, even if this one goes on and on. Read the last two chapters of Revelation. God is going to set His people free from living in a cursed world. No pain. No suffering. no wickedness.

 

[preterist]

Ecc 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Ecc 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

The earth abides for ever. Yet it changes. A new one is on the way! A clean one! A pure one, tried by fire.

 

[preterist]

The earth abides for ever. Yet it changes. A new one is on the way! A clean one! A pure one, tried by fire.

the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Explain it? I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[golfjack]

reply

Gabby, Isiah 65 is an excellent book about what it will be like after the millionium. Do you see anything there that would suggest a population growth and perhaps we will go to other planets because the new earth will be overcrowded. Thought provoking isn't it?



May God bless, golfjack

 

[preterist]

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Explain it? I guess we will have to wait and see.

John Lightfoot (1859)
"That the destruction of Jerusalem is very frequently expressed in Scripture as if it were the destruction of the whole world, Deut. 32:22; "A fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.' Jer. 4:23; 'I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light,' &c. The discourse there also is concerning the destruction of that nation, Isa. 65:17; 'Behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered,' &c. And more passages of this sort among the prophets. According to this sense, Christ speaks in this place; and Peter speaks in his Second Epistle, third chapter; and John, in the sixth of the Revelation; and Paul, 2 Cor. 5:17, &c. (vol. 2, pp. 18-19)
"With the same reference it is, that the times and state of things immediately following the destruction of Jerusalem are called 'a new creation,' new heavens,' and 'a new earth.' When should that be? Read the whole chapter; and you will find the Jews rejected and cut off; and from that time is that new creation of the evangelical world among the Gentiles.
Compare 2 Cor. 5:17 and Rev. 21:1,2; where, the old Jerusalem being cut off and destroyed, a new one succeeds; and new heavens and a new earth are created.
2 Peter 3:13: 'We, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth.' The heaven and the earth of the Jewish church and commonwealth must be all on fire, and the Mosaic elements burnt up; but we, according to the promise made to us by Isaiah the prophet, when all these are consumed, look for the new creation of the evangelical state" (vol. 3, p.453)
"That the destruction of Jerusalem and the whole Jewish state is described as if the whole frame of the world were to be dissolved. Nor is it strange, when God destroyed his habitation and city, places once so dear to him, with so direful and sad an overthrow; his own people, whom he accounted of as much or more than the whole world beside, by so dreadful and amazing plagues. Matt. 24:29,30, 'The sun shall be darkened &c. Then shall appear the 'sign of the Son of man,' &c; which yet are said to fall out within that generation, ver. 34. 2 Pet. 3:10, 'The heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,' &c. Compare with this Deut. 32:22, Heb. 12:26: and observe that by elements are understood the Mosaic elements, Gal 4:9, Coloss. 2:20: and you will not doubt that St. Peter speaks only of the conflagration of Jerusalem, the destruction of the nation, and the abolishing the dispensation of Moses" (vol. 3, p. 452).

Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
"The figurative language of the prophets is taken from the analogy between the world natural and an empire or kingdom considered as a world politic. Accordingly, the world natural, consisting of heaven and earth, signifies the whole world politic, consisting of thrones and people, or so much of it as is considered in prophecy; and the things in that world signify the analogous things in this. For the heavens and the things therein signify thrones and dignities, and those who enjoy them: and the earth, with the things thereon, the inferior people; and the lowest parts of the earth, called Hades or Hell, the lowest or most miserable part of them. Great earthquakes, and the shaking of heaven and earth, are put for the shaking of kingdoms, so as to distract and overthrow them; the creating of a new heaven and earth, and the passing of an old one; or the beginning and end of a world, for the rise and ruin of a body politic signified thereby. The sun, for the whole species and race of kings, in the kingdoms of the world politic; the moon, for the body of common people considered as the king's wife; the starts, for subordinate princes and great men; or for bishops and rulers of the people of God, when the sun is Christ. Setting of the sun, moon, and stars; darkening the sun, turning the moon into blood, and falling of the stars, for the ceasing of a kingdom." (Observations on the Prophecies, Part i. chap. ii)

John Owen (1721)
'It is evident, then, that in the prophetical idiom and manner of speech, by heavens and earth, the civil and religious state and combination of men in the world, and the men of them, were often understood. So were the heavens and earth that world which then was destroyed by the flood.
' 4. On this foundation I affirm that the heavens and earth here intended in this prophecy of Peter, the coming of the Lord, the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men, mentioned in the destruction of that heaven and earth, do all of them relate, not to the last and final judgment of the world, but to that utter desolation and destruction that was to be made of the Judaical church and state
'First, There is the foundation of the apostle's inference and exhortation, seeing that all these things, however precious they seem, or what value soever any put upon them, shall be dissolved, that is, destroyed; and that in that dreadful and fearful manner before mentioned, in a day of judgment, wrath, and vengeance, by fire and sword; let others mock at the threats of Christ's coming: He will come- He will not tarry; and then the heavens and earth that God Himself planted, -the sun, moon, and stars of the Judaical polity and church, -the whole old world of worship and worshippers, that stand out in their obstinancy against the Lord Christ, shall be sensibly dissolved and destroyed: this we know shall be the end of these things, and that shortly." (Sermon on 2 Peter iii. 11, Works, folio, 1721.).


C.H. Spurgeon (1865)
"Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, of any one of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacle, or the dedication? No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and we now live under the new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it." (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, vol. xxxvii, p. 354).

 

[Bick]

Ecc 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Hi preterist, the word in the Hebrew for "for ever" is " le olam", which, according to Young's Concordance means "age-lasting". "Olam" itself does not mean unending time. So, when in Peter and Rev. it speaks of a new heaven and earth, there is no contradiction.

It seems a definition might be needed: when "end of the world" is said, does that mean "the earth and all that is in it...including all mankind"?

Or, could it mean just, "the end of the world of mankind, including man"?

Or, could it mean, "the end of the order or arrangement of the world of mankind"?

The important thing is to know the Greek word translated "world" in Matt,24:3 is "aion", which also means "an unknown, but limited period of time---and age". So, the end of the age, could be said to be the end of a special time period.

And "age" is the word to be used in many places such as in: Matt. 12:39. 40, 49; 28:20; Mark 10:30; Luke 16:8, etc

All for now, Bick

 

[BenJasher]

I like Bick! :smt023

 

[preterist]

Hi preterist, the word in the Hebrew for "for ever" is " le olam", which, according to Young's Concordance means "age-lasting". "Olam" itself does not mean unending time.

I agree, but get a dispie to agree to that definition when speaking of this verse:

Gen 13:15 for all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

So, when in Peter and Rev. it speaks of a new heaven and earth, there is no contradiction.

When does this New Haven and New Earth occur, before the 1000 year Kingdom or after? What happens to the people who are living on the old earth when the new one comes?

The important thing is to know the Greek word translated "world" in Matt,24:3 is "aion", which also means "an unknown, but limited period of time---and age". So, the end of the age, could be said to be the end of a special time period.

What age do you think the disciples are asking aout?

 

[stranger]

preterist

Ecc 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Hi there,

Just as a matter of interest what prophesy remains yet to be fulfilled in the preterist world view?

In Christ,

Stranger

 

[Jon-Marc]

In Revelation 21:1 John is telling about there being a new heaven and a new earth, because the old heaven and earth are gone. The new earth has no sea.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Re: preterist

Just as a matter of interest what prophesy remains yet to be fulfilled .....

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh...... Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[BenJasher]

Re: preterist

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh...... Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Not so fast, Gabby, Luke 21, Matthew 24, and Mark 13 all prophecy of a time that has already been fulfilled in 70 A.D. The historical accounts of that time confirm Jesus' prophetic authority here. He meant exactly what He said in these passages. And those things came to pass with appalling, vivid clarity. It was much more horrible to be in Jerusalem in those days than we imagine in the last days Rapture/Tribulation scenario.

The historical record is there for any who wish to look upon it. Check it out for yourself.

So, the answer to Stranger's question has yet to be truthfully answered.

As far as prophecies that are yet to be fulfilled; The Manifestation of the Sons of God. The re-unification of the Nation of Israel. There is more. But that is enough for now.

My grandson, Colston is waiting for me to go outside with him. So I have more important things to take care of right now. I will talk with you all later.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Re: preterist

Not so fast, Gabby, Luke 21, Matthew 24, and Mark 13 all prophecy of a time that has already been fulfilled in 70 A.D. The historical accounts of that time confirm Jesus' prophetic authority here. He meant exactly what He said in these passages. And those things came to pass with appalling, vivid clarity. It was much more horrible to be in Jerusalem in those days than we imagine in the last days Rapture/Tribulation scenario.

The historical record is there for any who wish to look upon it. Check it out for yourself.

So, the answer to Stranger's question has yet to be truthfully answered.

As far as prophecies that are yet to be fulfilled; The Manifestation of the Sons of God. The re-unification of the Nation of Israel. There is more. But that is enough for now.

My grandson, Colston is waiting for me to go outside with him. So I have more important things to take care of right now. I will talk with you all later.

Yeah, I heard about that.
The neat thing I have discovered about prophesies, that if all of it is not fulfilled the way that it is stated, then the event is not the actual fulfilment of the prophesy.

Cross reference the passage in Luke 21 with the passage in Matthew 24.

Both of these chapters are talking about the end of the age and the coming of the Son of Man.
The surrounding of Jerusalem is just one of the events that Jesus was speaking of.

Indeed, it did happen once. Yet it was not the end of the age.
Like so many things that happened more than one time in Scripture, it is going to happen again.

 

[BenJasher]

Is that right, Gabby? Who told you that there was no end of the Age in that day?

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Is that right, Gabby? Who told you that there was no end of the Age in that day?

Ben, did this happen in 70 AD also?

Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Hmmm.... I guess that the next logical step in this discussion is that you are going to tell me that the second coming of the Lord has already taken place?


Luk 21:6 [As for] these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Luk 21:7 ¶ And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign [will there be] when these things shall come to pass?
Luk 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
Luk 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end [is] not by and by.
Luk 21:10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
Luk 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
Luk 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute [you], delivering [you] up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Luk 21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
Luk 21:14 Settle [it] therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
Luk 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
Luk 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and [some] of you shall they cause to be put to death.
Luk 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake.
Luk 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
Luk 21:20 ¶ And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 ¶ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Luk 21:29 ¶ And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
Luk 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
Luk 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Luk 21:34 ¶ And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and [so] that day come upon you unawares.
Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.