I'm really concerned my Dad might split up with his wife?

[LanaPodesta]

Don't know if you are still here, but I went thru a divorce (mom and dad) when I was 7 and it was bad.

I will certainly pray for you.

Thank you. Kyrie Eleison.

 

[LanaPodesta]

So, in all that you wrote, you didn't say anything about God and how He figures into your life. Why is that? As a Christian, a disciple of Jesus Christ, I'd give you spiritual advice because it is the best, the deepest, and the most lasting sort of advice I could give you. But if God isn't your heavenly Father, if you haven't trusted in Jesus as your Savior from your sin, and submitted yourself to him as your Lord and God, then the spiritual advice I would give you isn't going to be of any value to you. In order to really understand such advice, you have to be made "alive" spiritually which only happens when you've become a child of God, a Christian.

Being a Christian isn't something that happens because you go to church, or know a priest or pastor, or own a Bible. Standing in a car-repair shop, or knowing the mechanic, or owning a few tools doesn't make you a car mechanic, right? Oddly, a lot of people think that being a Christian is about a location (church), and knowing a religious person (priest), and doing religious things (praying, communion, tithing, etc.), but in reality the Bible says that being a Christian is knowing a Person (God), it's being related to Him as one of His adopted children.

Revelation 3:20
20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

1 John 5:11-12
11 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

This adoption happens as a result of trusting that Jesus is God, that he died in payment of your sin-debt, that he rose from the dead and ascended to heaven where he sits at God's right hand as your Advocate with God, that you are the terrible sinner He says you are and that you need desperately to be saved from yourself and from God's just wrath that your sin deserves. Is this you? Do you believe these things and live in them as Truth every day?

Romans 3:10
10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

Romans 3:23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

1 John 1:9-10
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

John 3:16-19
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

Romans 10:9-10
9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

When you become a child of God through trusting in Jesus as your Savior and Lord and giving your life over to him to rule as he sees fit, a whole realm of spiritual living opens up to you. This is because the Holy Spirit of God, in response to your trust in Christ, has come to dwell within you. He gives to you in himself "new life," a spiritual life you didn't have before, that enables you to understand spiritual truth.

Titus 3:5-6
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

1 John 4:13
13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.

John 14:16-17
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

Because the Holy Spirit is inside of you, giving to you new, spiritual life in himself, you can understand the "things of God" in a way that is impossible without the Holy Spirit. And so, I ask you if you're a "born-again" child of God, a person in whom the Holy Spirit is dwelling. Are you? If you are, I can offer to you God's advice to all of His children about how to navigate life and its various difficulties, tragedies and suffering with unshakable joy, peace and contentment. If you aren't God's child yet, then my first bit of advice would be to remedy this condition immediately and begin to live with God in the way He created you to do, which is in daily, life-changing communion with Himself.

Proverbs 3:5-8
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.
7 Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD, and turn away from evil.
8 It will be healing to your flesh and refreshment to your bones.

With all due respect, church isn't a 'location'. It's where the rite takes place, that I might better commune with God, where heaven and earth converge, and one enjoys the presence of saints and angels.

Comparing attending church, and experiencing the mystery of church to 'standing in a car-repair shop' is bordering on blasphemous. How can I know Him if I am not experiencing his energies as profoundly and directly as I would in church? What did you expect me to say?

 

[Tenchi]

With all due respect, church isn't a 'location'.

Well, there's the "big C" Church, which is the Body of Christ constituted of born-again children of God (John 3:3-7). This Church isn't a location but a collection of people. But then, there are the buildings in which these people meet that are also called "churches." My point was that many people feel that, having sat in the building called a church, they are made "Christian" by doing so. This is nowhere stated in the Bible.

It's where the rite takes place, that I might better commune with God, where heaven and earth converge, and one enjoys the presence of saints and angels.

It's nowhere stated in the Bible that the building in which born-again children of God meet to worship and learn God's Truth is a convergence point for heaven and earth. Instead, each born-again person is a "temple of the Holy Spirit," God the Spirit dwelling within them, as close as thought.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,
20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

John 14:16-17
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

In fact, the Bible says that if a person is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit, they are not God's children.

Romans 8:9
9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

1 John 4:13
13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.

Is this you? Does the Spirit "bear witness with your spirit" that you are God's child (Romans 8:16) by doing to you the things the Bible says he will do to all of those in whom he actually dwells? Or are you thinking that just being in a church building is enough to make you a "Christian"?

Comparing attending church, and experiencing the mystery of church to 'standing in a car-repair shop' is bordering on blasphemous.

See above. There is nothing particularly special or spiritual about a church building. It's the people who are the "temples" of the Holy Spirit who meet in the building who are important. Every single church building, in the end, will be destroyed by divine fire, but God's own, His Spirit-indwelt children, will endure for all eternity. Be careful, then, not to make a structure of wood, stone and metal that God will one day burn to ash as important as the Church, the people of God who are eternal "temples" of the Holy Spirit.

How can I know Him if I am not experiencing his energies as profoundly and directly as I would in church? What did you expect me to say?

I don't know what you mean by "experiencing His energies in church." The Holy Spirit is not mere energy; he is a Person, as the Bible plainly indicates. And it is the Holy Spirit a believer experiences when they experience God. Inasmuch as the Holy Spirit is always inside the born-again person (Hebrews 13:5), he may be experienced at any time, not only when the born-again person is in a church meeting. In fact, if the person who thinks they are a Christian has no persistent, concrete, daily experience of the life and work of the Holy Spirit within them, it is very doubtful that s/he is actually one of God's children.

Do you know what the life and work of the Holy Spirit is?

Bible Study - How Do I Know It's the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body. A few years ago now, I was talking with a young man...

christianforums.net

Bible Study - The Work of the Holy Spirit: Divine Strengthening.

Philippians 2:12-13 12 ...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Perhaps in no other area, spiritually, is there more confusion than in the area of how the born-again person "works out their...

christianforums.net

Bible Study - The work of the Holy Spirit: Transformation.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who...

christianforums.net

Bible Study - The Work of the Holy Spirit: Comfort.

John 14:16-17 16 And I will pray to the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but you know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in...

christianforums.net

 

[LanaPodesta]

This Church isn't a location but a collection of people. But then, there are the buildings in which these people meet that are also called "churches."

Is that all church is to you? A 'building' where 'people meet'? As I've said, I attend to church to experience His energies directly.

This is nowhere stated in the Bible.

Okay? Doesn't make it untrue. A lot of things aren't explicitly stated in the Bible (the Trinity, for example), but you wouldn't be a Christian if you didn't believe in the mystery of the Trinity.

It's nowhere stated in the Bible that the building in which born-again children of God meet to worship and learn God's Truth is a convergence point for heaven and earth

Okay? Doesn't make it untrue. And it's not about 'the building' it's about the rite that occurs therein, where earth and heaven converge and one is in the presence of saints and angels and one can experience His energies, profoundly and directly.

I don't know what you mean by "experiencing His energies in church."

Okay? So why do you go to church?

 

[Corn Pop]

This is how I see it. The church means the body of Christ, so the church are all those in Christ from all over the world they don't gather in the same building every week and many have neevr met or even know each other.

Then there is fellowship that's called a church because believers go there to congregate and sing songs to the Lord and pray and so on, same like home fellowship yet just with more people so they have a bigger premises.

When it comes to non believers, I guess they go to fellowship becauae they interested to know who this Jesus fellow is and make a choice if they interested to know him or not.

Some fellowships or as we say churches are obviously crooked and are more entertainment centres and the Leaders just itch the peoples ears and tell them what they want to hear and just say Jesus loves you like a soft teddy bear and pumps everyone with the bands music with strobe lights like its a rock concert. Yet there are some good fellowships people just have to get through the weeds and those who acturally put in the effort in to know Christ and read the scriptures and what he says get guided and they know when and where to wipe the dust off there feet.

A church with a open book is usually good and where a church leader tells the people to read and study the scriptures.

It's amazing the different types of churches, from the quiet Church with a leader reading from the scriptures and everyone with there open book reading and learning together, and they have a prayer, maybe sing a song or two for the Lord, to a full concert with strobe lights and hundreds of people just having a good time and being told what they want to hear.

 

[Tenchi]

Is that all church is to you? A 'building' where 'people meet'? As I've said, I attend to church to experience His energies directly.

Yes, a church building is just a church building. It's a tool, really, nothing more. But the Church, the people of God, my siblings in Christ, well, that's a very different matter. They are eternal, made in God's image, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and greatly loved of God. They will endure beyond the destruction of this world by God, who will make a new heavens and earth wherein righteousness dwells; they will be enjoying wonderful, everlasting communion with God trillions of years after the slightest traces of the greatest of the buildings in which they once met as the Church here on earth have utterly vanished - even from memory. And this is, at least in part, why church buildings are given no attention whatever in the New Testament.

I doubt very much you experience "His energies" while in your home church building.

Acts 17:24
24 "The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;

I suspect the "energies" you feel are the effects of the Group Mind, or Mob Mentality, that grip people very easily when they are in a crowd of people, moving them to feel and act in out-of-the-ordinary ways. I suspect by "energy" you mean religious emotion, perhaps provoked by the "rites" of worship and the character of the venue in which these rites take place. But is it God you're encountering? I wonder...

Okay? Doesn't make it untrue.

Not only does the Bible never say that a person is made "Christian" merely by sitting in a church building, it says explicitly what does make a person a "Christian" and sitting in a church building isn't it. See John 3:16, Romans 10:9-10, James 4:6-10. This is quite different than the matter of the Trinity, which is quite plainly spelled out in God's word though the term "Trinity" is never used. There is nothing in Scripture to support the idea that merely being in a church building makes one a Christian. I think, then, there is very good reason to say that it is quite untrue that sitting in a church building can itself spiritually regenerate a person.

Okay? Doesn't make it untrue.

If the Bible said nothing about what it is to experience God and how to do so, you might have some basis for saying what you do here. But, again, the Bible offers a very extensive explanation/description of what it is to experience God and nowhere does the Bible indicate that a church building is a "convergence point of heaven and earth." If there is such a point, it's within the individual believer who has been made by the Holy Spirit his "temple."

1 Corinthians 3:16
16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

So, it is untrue that there is some sort of convergence of heaven and earth unique to a church building or produced because it is a church building.

And it's not about 'the building' it's about the rite that occurs therein, where earth and heaven converge and one is in the presence of saints and angels and one can experience His energies, profoundly and directly.

Well, again, I'm afraid this is all fantasy, as far as God's word is concerned. Nowhere does the Bible indicate that, when you or I are in a church building, we are in the presence of saints (though, we may be in the presence of angels). It is just sheer imagination that is the ground for such a belief.

As for "experiencing His energies," see above. And my last post to you. Christians don't experience mere divine "energy" but the life and work of a Person: the Holy Spirit. His work is to change God's children and make them more and more like Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:18), holy, faithful, wise and loving people, full of God's Truth and His peace and joy. Is this you? Or are you just chasing after sensations of energy?

Okay? So why do you go to church?

I am the Church. So are you, if you've been made a "temple" of the Holy Spirit. And so, wherever Christians are, there the Church is, whether they are in a coffee shop together, or driving to hockey game, or having a picnic at a local park, or hanging out on the patio in the back yard.

Anyway, I go to a church building in order to congregate with other believers for teaching from God's word, prayer and corporate worship of God in song. I am a member of a community of believers in order to spiritually edify them and, in concert with them, serve God as He directs, sharing the Gospel with the lost and of them making disciples of Christ, as God has commanded His Church to do (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15).

 

[LanaPodesta]

Yes, a church building is just a church building. It's a tool, really, nothing more. But the Church, the people of God, my siblings in Christ, well, that's a very different matter. They are eternal, made in God's image, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and greatly loved of God. They will endure beyond the destruction of this world by God, who will make a new heavens and earth wherein righteousness dwells; they will be enjoying wonderful, everlasting communion with God trillions of years after the slightest traces of the greatest of the buildings in which they once met as the Church here on earth have utterly vanished - even from memory. And this is, at least in part, why church buildings are given no attention whatever in the New Testament.

I doubt very much you experience "His energies" while in your home church building.

Acts 17:24
24 "The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;

I suspect the "energies" you feel are the effects of the Group Mind, or Mob Mentality, that grip people very easily when they are in a crowd of people, moving them to feel and act in out-of-the-ordinary ways. I suspect by "energy" you mean religious emotion, perhaps provoked by the "rites" of worship and the character of the venue in which these rites take place. But is it God you're encountering? I wonder...



Not only does the Bible never say that a person is made "Christian" merely by sitting in a church building, it says explicitly what does make a person a "Christian" and sitting in a church building isn't it. See John 3:16, Romans 10:9-10, James 4:6-10. This is quite different than the matter of the Trinity, which is quite plainly spelled out in God's word though the term "Trinity" is never used. There is nothing in Scripture to support the idea that merely being in a church building makes one a Christian. I think, then, there is very good reason to say that it is quite untrue that sitting in a church building can itself spiritually regenerate a person.



If the Bible said nothing about what it is to experience God and how to do so, you might have some basis for saying what you do here. But, again, the Bible offers a very extensive explanation/description of what it is to experience God and nowhere does the Bible indicate that a church building is a "convergence point of heaven and earth." If there is such a point, it's within the individual believer who has been made by the Holy Spirit his "temple."

1 Corinthians 3:16
16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

So, it is untrue that there is some sort of convergence of heaven and earth unique to a church building or produced because it is a church building.



Well, again, I'm afraid this is all fantasy, as far as God's word is concerned. Nowhere does the Bible indicate that, when you or I are in a church building, we are in the presence of saints (though, we may be in the presence of angels). It is just sheer imagination that is the ground for such a belief.

As for "experiencing His energies," see above. And my last post to you. Christians don't experience mere divine "energy" but the life and work of a Person: the Holy Spirit. His work is to change God's children and make them more and more like Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:18), holy, faithful, wise and loving people, full of God's Truth and His peace and joy. Is this you? Or are you just chasing after sensations of energy?



I am the Church. So are you, if you've been made a "temple" of the Holy Spirit. And so, wherever Christians are, there the Church is, whether they are in a coffee shop together, or driving to hockey game, or having a picnic at a local park, or hanging out on the patio in the back yard.

Anyway, I go to a church building in order to congregate with other believers for teaching from God's word, prayer and corporate worship of God in song. I am a member of a community of believers in order to spiritually edify them and, in concert with them, serve God as He directs, sharing the Gospel with the lost and of them making disciples of Christ, as God has commanded His Church to do (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15).

So where do you go to experience the rite that allows you to experience His energies?

 

[Roberto Cisneros]

Speak to your dad and tell him what you find problematic. Relationships are built on honesty and openness of all sides.

Amen. Being honest and expressing feelings is very helpful in these scenarios. Invite the Holy Spirit to be at the center of things.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Amen. Being honest and expressing feelings is very helpful in these scenarios. Invite the Holy Spirit to be at the center of things.

Thank you

 

[Tenchi]

So where do you go to experience the rite that allows you to experience His energies?

Did you not read the whole post I wrote to you? I answered your question above in that post pretty clearly. The only "rite" that allows you to experience the Holy Spirit, who is a Person, not just "energy," is the act of trusting in Jesus as your Savior and submitting yourself to him as your Lord.

Romans 10:9-10
9 ...if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

When, by faith, you trust that Jesus was God-in-the-flesh and the one who has paid the terrible penalty for your sin in your place, and you yield yourself entirely to him as his vessel to use as he pleases, the Holy Spirit responds to your act of faith and submission in Jesus by coming to dwell within you, giving you new, spiritual life in himself.

Titus 3:5-7
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

John 14:16-17
16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

So, the person who has been saved, who has been "born-again" spiritually (John 3:3-7) and made a "new creature in Christ" (2 Corinthians 5:17) has become a "temple" of the Holy Spirit, his permanent dwelling place (Hebrews 13:5). As a result, the one who has the Spirit within may experience his life and work ANYWHERE they are, not only in church on Sunday morning, or in a Worship Concert on Friday night.

And there is no "rite" beyond that of being saved from your sin and given new, spiritual life in the Person of the Holy Spirit that gives to you a true experience of God.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Did you not read the whole post I wrote to you? I answered your question above in that post pretty clearly. The only "rite" that allows you to experience the Holy Spirit, who is a Person, not just "energy," is the act of trusting in Jesus as your Savior and submitting yourself to him as your Lord.

Romans 10:9-10
9 ...if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

When, by faith, you trust that Jesus was God-in-the-flesh and the one who has paid the terrible penalty for your sin in your place, and you yield yourself entirely to him as his vessel to use as he pleases, the Holy Spirit responds to your act of faith and submission in Jesus by coming to dwell within you, giving you new, spiritual life in himself.

Titus 3:5-7
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

John 14:16-17
16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

So, the person who has been saved, who has been "born-again" spiritually (John 3:3-7) and made a "new creature in Christ" (2 Corinthians 5:17) has become a "temple" of the Holy Spirit, his permanent dwelling place (Hebrews 13:5). As a result, the one who has the Spirit within may experience his life and work ANYWHERE they are, not only in church on Sunday morning, or in a Worship Concert on Friday night.

And there is no "rite" beyond that of being saved from your sin and given new, spiritual life in the Person of the Holy Spirit that gives to you a true experience of God.

1.​

Scripture is God-breathed and essential to our faith, but it serves as a guide that points us toward the fullness of communion with God. Jesus Himself declared in John 5:39-40:

"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."

The Scriptures are not an end in themselves; they direct us to Christ, who offers us life. In the Divine Liturgy, we come to Christ not just intellectually but in a living, sacramental encounter. The Liturgy is the fulfillment of what the Bible testifies to: union with God.

2.​

In the Orthodox understanding, the Divine Liturgy is not merely a gathering or a memorial—it is an entry into the eternal worship of God. During the Liturgy, we are mystically united with the heavenly worship described in Revelation 4-5, where the angels and saints adore God before His throne. As the priest proclaims, "Blessed is the Kingdom," the boundaries between heaven and earth dissolve, and we participate in the eternal reality of God’s Kingdom.

This contact with the living God is not something that can be fully captured or mediated by the written word, no matter how sacred. The Liturgy is where the Word made flesh, Jesus Christ, comes to us tangibly through the Eucharist.

3.​

While the Bible reveals God to us through His Word, the Eucharist gives us God Himself. In John 6:53-56, Jesus says:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink."

The Eucharist is not symbolic; it is the real presence of Christ—His Body and Blood given to us for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. This is a mystery beyond words, a direct encounter with God that nourishes and transforms us in ways that reading Scripture alone cannot.

4.​

Reading Scripture is a vital part of Christian life, but it primarily engages the intellect. The Divine Liturgy, by contrast, involves the whole person—body, mind, and soul. In the Liturgy, we stand, bow, sing, pray, and receive the sacraments. This participation reflects the Incarnational nature of our faith: just as Christ became fully human, we encounter Him not only spiritually but also physically.

The Liturgy allows us to experience God’s grace directly, not as an abstract idea but as a tangible reality. When we partake of the Eucharist, we become one with Christ in a way that transcends intellectual understanding, fulfilling our deepest longing for communion with Him.

5.​

It’s important to emphasize that the Divine Liturgy does not diminish the importance of Scripture. Instead, it fulfills it. The Bible is read, proclaimed, and celebrated in the Liturgy, but it finds its culmination in the sacramental encounter with God. As St. Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 3:6:

"The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

The Scriptures are the foundation, but the Liturgy is where the Spirit brings them to life, allowing us to encounter the risen Christ in His fullness.

 

[Tenchi]

1.​

Scripture is God-breathed and essential to our faith, but it serves as a guide that points us toward the fullness of communion with God. Jesus Himself declared in John 5:39-40:

The Scriptures are not an end in themselves; they direct us to Christ, who offers us life. In the Divine Liturgy, we come to Christ not just intellectually but in a living, sacramental encounter. The Liturgy is the fulfillment of what the Bible testifies to: union with God.

You will find nowhere in the New Testament any verse that says what you have here. Not one. The Liturgy has nothing to do with how you walk with God in daily communion, His Spirit leading you, convicting you, teaching you, and strengthening you. (John 16:8; Romans 8:14; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16; Philippians 2:13; Ephesians 3:16, etc.). We find fellowship with God, daily, personal communion with Him, in our interactions with the Holy Spirit who has made of every truly saved person, every born-again person, his "temple" (1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19-20). This is all basic, meat-and-potatoes Christianity, LanaPodesta. The Christian life is life in the Spirit, which the New Testament describes in great detail.

2.​

In the Orthodox understanding, the Divine Liturgy is not merely a gathering or a memorial—it is an entry into the eternal worship of God. During the Liturgy, we are mystically united with the heavenly worship described in Revelation 4-5, where the angels and saints adore God before His throne. As the priest proclaims, "Blessed is the Kingdom," the boundaries between heaven and earth dissolve, and we participate in the eternal reality of God’s Kingdom.

This contact with the living God is not something that can be fully captured or mediated by the written word, no matter how sacred. The Liturgy is where the Word made flesh, Jesus Christ, comes to us tangibly through the Eucharist.

Well, this all sounds very....spiritual, I guess. But it is entirely unbiblical. Nowhere does Scripture ever invite God's children, through the Liturgy, to "a mystical union with heavenly worship in which the boundaries between heaven and earth dissolve," etc. This is all just religious gobbledy-gook, a way of making the Liturgy seem more profound and essential to interacting with God than it actually is. The Holy Spirit is not constrained to the Liturgy in his dealings with those who are his temple. No, daily, in them, he does all the Bible says he does: Conviction, illumination, strengthening, comforting, and transformation of the born-again believer. Is this your experience of God, of the Spirit of God, throughout each day? If not, you have yet to experience what it is to know and walk with your Maker.

2 Corinthians 3:18
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Philippians 2:13
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

1 Corinthians 2:12-13
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

Romans 8:13-14
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

And so on. I suspect you can't take in what I'm showing you from God's word, but I tell you: What God offers to you in relationship with Himself is far, far more than you're getting from mere liturgical ritual.

3.​

While the Bible reveals God to us through His Word, the Eucharist gives us God Himself. In John 6:53-56, Jesus says:

The Eucharist is not symbolic; it is the real presence of Christ—His Body and Blood given to us for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. This is a mystery beyond words, a direct encounter with God that nourishes and transforms us in ways that reading Scripture alone cannot.

This, too, is unbiblical.

It's very...odd to me to see you use Scripture to diminish Scripture, setting a man-made ritual over the eternal, life-giving, God-revealing Truth of God.

The Eucharist is entirely symbolic. The born-again Christian has within them the Holy Spirit and is only a child of God, a Christian, if this is the case. And the Holy Spirit does not ever leave the person of whom he has made his temple.

Romans 8:9
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Hebrews 13:4-6
5 ...be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
6 So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear...

1 John 4:13
13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,
20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

So, then, what need of this constant sacrificing of Christ afresh in the Eucharist rite? He died once for all, the Bible says repeatedly, and yet you participate in a ritual that essentially denies this fact.

Romans 6:9-10
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

Hebrews 7:24-27
24 but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.
25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens;
27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

Hebrews 10:10-12
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;
12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God.

We know that when Jesus spoke of eating his flesh and drinking his blood to his disciples, he did not cut off bits of his flesh and drain blood from his body and then serve it to his disciples. And Christ's disciples gave no hint that they expected Jesus to do so. Instead, they recognized that Jesus was speaking figuratively, the bread and wine mere symbols of his sacrifice of himself for the sin of all mankind.

4.​

Reading Scripture is a vital part of Christian life, but it primarily engages the intellect. The Divine Liturgy, by contrast, involves the whole person—body, mind, and soul. In the Liturgy, we stand, bow, sing, pray, and receive the sacraments. This participation reflects the Incarnational nature of our faith: just as Christ became fully human, we encounter Him not only spiritually but also physically.

The Liturgy allows us to experience God’s grace directly, not as an abstract idea but as a tangible reality. When we partake of the Eucharist, we become one with Christ in a way that transcends intellectual understanding, fulfilling our deepest longing for communion with Him.

Again, this is all just man-made dogma, without any solid basis in God's word and thus without any legitimate ground upon which to stand in confining and ordering Christian conduct and belief. In fact, as I've shown from Scripture, your view of the Liturgy actually contradicts the plain statement of the word of God. If you continue to live under these erroneous ideas, you will never enjoy the life-changing communion with God that you're supposed to enjoy every day with Him through His indwelling Spirit.

5.​

It’s important to emphasize that the Divine Liturgy does not diminish the importance of Scripture. Instead, it fulfills it. The Bible is read, proclaimed, and celebrated in the Liturgy, but it finds its culmination in the sacramental encounter with God. As St. Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 3:6:

The Scriptures are the foundation, but the Liturgy is where the Spirit brings them to life, allowing us to encounter the risen Christ in His fullness.

Again, this is just man-made dogma that runs counter to the plain declaration of God-breathed Scripture. Really, as far as I can tell, this stuff about the Liturgy is just the modern version of the man-made dogma of the Pharisees of Christ's time who layered onto the God-given Mosaic Covenant their own rules and rituals, setting them on par with, and even above, what God had declared. Jesus had extremely hard things to say to the Pharisees about their legalistic additions and their resulting hypocrisy by which they had made themselves "sons of hell" and "the brood of vipers." (See Matthew 23)

I understand what I've shared with you runs sharply against what you've been told about knowing and walking with God, but don't let this fact keep you from carefully considering the Scripture I've offered to you. Please prayerfully think on what the Bible verses/passages are saying and let them order your understanding of what it is to know and walk with God.

 

[LanaPodesta]

You will find nowhere in the New Testament any verse that says what you have here. Not one. The Liturgy has nothing to do with how you walk with God in daily communion, His Spirit leading you, convicting you, teaching you, and strengthening you. (John 16:8; Romans 8:14; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16; Philippians 2:13; Ephesians 3:16, etc.). We find fellowship with God, daily, personal communion with Him, in our interactions with the Holy Spirit who has made of every truly saved person, every born-again person, his "temple" (1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19-20). This is all basic, meat-and-potatoes Christianity, LanaPodesta. The Christian life is life in the Spirit, which the New Testament describes in great detail.



Well, this all sounds very....spiritual, I guess. But it is entirely unbiblical. Nowhere does Scripture ever invite God's children, through the Liturgy, to "a mystical union with heavenly worship in which the boundaries between heaven and earth dissolve," etc. This is all just religious gobbledy-gook, a way of making the Liturgy seem more profound and essential to interacting with God than it actually is. The Holy Spirit is not constrained to the Liturgy in his dealings with those who are his temple. No, daily, in them, he does all the Bible says he does: Conviction, illumination, strengthening, comforting, and transformation of the born-again believer. Is this your experience of God, of the Spirit of God, throughout each day? If not, you have yet to experience what it is to know and walk with your Maker.

2 Corinthians 3:18
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Philippians 2:13
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

1 Corinthians 2:12-13
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

Romans 8:13-14
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

And so on. I suspect you can't take in what I'm showing you from God's word, but I tell you: What God offers to you in relationship with Himself is far, far more than you're getting from mere liturgical ritual.



This, too, is unbiblical.

It's very...odd to me to see you use Scripture to diminish Scripture, setting a man-made ritual over the eternal, life-giving, God-revealing Truth of God.

The Eucharist is entirely symbolic. The born-again Christian has within them the Holy Spirit and is only a child of God, a Christian, if this is the case. And the Holy Spirit does not ever leave the person of whom he has made his temple.

Romans 8:9
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Hebrews 13:4-6
5 ...be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
6 So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear...

1 John 4:13
13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,
20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

Continued below.

The Liturgy existed before the Bible

 

[Tenchi]

The Liturgy existed before the Bible

I don't what you mean, here. Can you explain?

 

[LanaPodesta]

I don't what you mean, here. Can you explain?

Is it not self explanatory? Do you think no Christians congregated in worship before the Bible?

 

[Tenchi]

Is it not self explanatory? Do you think no Christians congregated in worship before the Bible?

The Old Testament existed long before there were any Christians.

And the New Testament was given by God to the Church (born-again children of God) through divinely-appointed men whose spiritual authority was established by miracles (apostles), who had been so appointed by Christ himself directly, and who were recognized as apostolic leaders by fellow divinely-appointed men and the Early Church, in general. So, the Bible wasn't just the concoction of believers throwing into the doctrinal "pot" of the faith whatever they liked. It was an objective, universally-authoritative, and constraining standard of belief and conduct delivered by God through men specially appointed by Him to the Church.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

 

[LanaPodesta]

The Old Testament existed long before there were any Christians.

And the New Testament was given by God to the Church (born-again children of God) through divinely-appointed men whose spiritual authority was established by miracles (apostles), who had been so appointed by Christ himself directly, and who were recognized as apostolic leaders by fellow divinely-appointed men and the Early Church, in general. So, the Bible wasn't just the concoction of believers throwing into the doctrinal "pot" of the faith whatever they liked. It was an objective, universally-authoritative, and constraining standard of belief and conduct delivered by God through men specially appointed by Him to the Church.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

You know Christians existed before the canonisation of the Bible, right?

 

[Tenchi]

You know Christians existed before the canonisation of the Bible, right?

I think you should understand from what I've already written to you that I do.

Why are you evading/ignoring the points I've made to you?

 

[LanaPodesta]

I think you should understand from what I've already written to you that I do.

Why are you evading/ignoring the points I've made to you?

I did...not sure what your point is. I don't disagree with anything you've said, and it doesn't refute anything I've said.