Image of God - or image of Adam?

[Free]

Eating red meat daily triples heart disease-related chemical

People had high blood levels of TMAO, a chemical that’s been linked to heart disease, when they ate a diet rich in red meat.

www.nih.gov

Eating excessive amounts of animal fat, particularly saturated fat, has been linked to an increased risk of heart disease, which is one of the leading causes of death worldwide. Research suggests that consuming high levels of red meat can raise levels of TMAO, a chemical associated with heart disease. However, some experts argue that the real issue is processed foods and refined carbohydrates, rather than animal fat alone.

So, you don’t have evidence that backs up your claim.

I am going by the Bible. In Leviticus 7:22-25, God commands the Israelites not to eat the fat of cattle, sheep, or goats. The passage states that the fat of an animal used for offerings must not be consumed. I try to follow the teachings of the Bible.

Which is what I showed already, the purpose of which was to show that you’re divorcing that passage from its context, and so end up making a false doctrine out of it.

Unless you’re still sacrificing animals, not eating the fat has absolutely no relevance. There is no biblical command to follow here.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The put fat in hamburger. I just had an angioplasty. Everything was fine, no stents no balloons. They were not expecting this because they put a stent in 20 years ago. But everything is fine now. When my brother died his wrists were very sore from all the stents they put in him.

I cook every meal I eat all by myself. Sandwich is usually on the menu, hamburger is not.

 

[Elijah7777]

I cook every meal I eat all by myself. Sandwich is usually on the menu, hamburger is not.

I use a rice cooker. Usually I make veggie soup because that is what they want me eating. I am trying to figure out how to eat more protein because I do not like having to kill animals.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I use a rice cooker. Usually I make veggie soup because that is what they want me eating. I am trying to figure out how to eat more protein because I do not like having to kill animals.

Neither do I, actually, but veganism is nothing but virtue signaling, as industrial monocropping and defrostation cause more animal deaths than animal husbandry. Also, our beloved cats and dogs are natural predators who kill other animals, and the most healthy diet for them is fresh meat. I'm in no place to object what God has sanctified.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. (1 Tim. 4:1-5)

 

[Elijah7777]

Also, our beloved cats and dogs are natural predators who kill other animals, and the most healthy diet for them is fresh meat. I'm in no place to object what God has sanctified.

The Bible says there will be no more death. But death has been a part of this world from the beginning. I use to have bunny rabbits living under the shed. But then a cat came along and wanted them. She ended up having kittens and one of the kittens went down the rabbit hole to chase the rabbit out. She would eat the head and give the body to the kittens to eat and then build them a nest from the fur. I was worried about the city so I cleaned up her mess and she was really mad at me for that. Eventually, we learned how to communicate with each other but it took a while for me to figure out what she was thinking. I have a lot of pictures of our backyard animals, possums, raccoons, skunks, cats, and rabbits. We live in the city. People in the country get deer and more than we get here. They can have stray dogs and chickens. Its funny how animals adapt to living in the city. They say cats like to live in the barn to keep the mice out.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The Bible says there will be no more death. But death has been a part of this world from the beginning.

Yes, better get the utopia out of your mind. We're living in a fallen world, which will only get worse until the Lord returns and estalishes his kingdom.

 

[Elijah7777]

Yes, better get the utopia out of your mind. We're living in a fallen world, which will only get worse until the Lord returns and estalishes his kingdom.

We are told to pray Thy Kingdom come Thy Will be done. On Earth as it is in Heaven.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

We are told to pray Thy Kingdom come Thy Will be done. On Earth as it is in Heaven.

Until then, keep calm and carry on.

 

[Elijah7777]

which will only get worse

As a christian we can not put on our new garment until we put off our old rags. The Kingdom age will be a new world but they have to get rid of the old world first.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The Kingdom age will be a new world but they have to get rid of the old world first.

We as salt of the earth have an essential function, which is to act as preservative, in pastor Robert Jeffress's word, "delay the decay", so more souls might be saved. Meanwhile, "get rid of the old world" is the revolutionaries' job, not the church's.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

We're been taught all the time in motivational sermons that we're made in the image of God, in latin, "Imago Dei", I understand its significance, as it points us to our one and only Creator, and it's especially relevant in this corrupt era where up is down and down is up, it reminds us of our original identity and affirms that there're only male and female. However, this "Imago Dei" alone is deceptive, because it's only half truth, it has been frequently exploited to boost pride and ego, it has even become a selling point for the body positivity movement by lots of influencers with a Christian label, that everyone is "fearfully and wonderfully made" in the image of God, no matter what size you are. I heard that yesterday in a podcast, it was outrageous, and it inspired me to write this thread.

Indeed, Adam and Eve were directly made in the image of God, but from Seth and there on, all mankind are made in the image of Adam. In other words, while Adam was a copy, Seth was a copy of a copy, which was no longer the original, the difference was SIN. The original image of God was tainted by sin, we're indirectly made in the image of a sinner. This might sound harsh, even offensive, yet it's the other half.

This other half comes from Gen. 5:3, you've probably have never noticed, yet it's key to understand who we are, who Christ is and why we need salvation from Christ. The garden of Eden was the intersection of heaven and earth, since Adam was banished, the connection between man and God was severed, as a result, mankind deviated further and further away from God, and sin piled up like entropy, generation upon generation. According to the genealogy in Lk. 3, when it came to Jesus's generation, the 76th, it had become a "faithless and perverse generation" (Matt. 17:17). And this is not just talking in a moral sense, but also in biological sense. Think about how sick we have become of, both mentally and physiologically, compared to the boomers and the silent generation. We're not evolving, but DEvolving. This is confirmed in epigenetic research, some of our lifestyle choices can be embedded into our genome and passed down to the next generation.

This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. (Gen. 5:1-3)

Knowing our sinful nature points us to Christ, who was born of the Holy Spirit, not Mary's egg and Joseph's sperm, and thus the incarnate of God, directly manifested in the Father's image, not indirectly in Adam's image. Like the first Adam, the prototype, He was born in the original, pristine, sinless state, therefore he was called the Second or Last Adam, that sets Him apart from Mary, Joseph, James and all other human beings who have inherited Adam's sin nature; and UNLIKE the first Adam, He resisted the devil, he retained his sinless state till he was crucified. We're taught to conform to image of Christ (Rom. 8:29), justified by His blood, and at the resurrection we will be divested of the sin nature we inherited from Adam and remade in glorified bodies. If you don't conform in the image of Christ, you know what the alternative is? The image of the Beast (Rev. 13:14-15), and again, not just in a moral sense, but also in biological sense, known as transhumanism, I assume you guys are no stranger to that, today's transgender movement is just a preview. It's the same lie in the garden - "you shall be like God, knowing good and evil," Gen. 3:5.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. (Rom. 5:12-14)

The bolded and underlined text above shows where you deviated from sound doctrine. We are not taught to conform to the image of Christ or face the alternative. If God could have written a rule that if followed would give eternal life, then He wouldn't have sacrificed His Son for our sins (Ga 2:21, 3:31).

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. (Ro 8:29–30)​

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

James says that we are all made in the likeness (image) of God. So then, just as we can be both saints and sinners simultaneously, we are simultaneously in the image of God and of Adam. The likeness of God in all mankind has been corrupted, so we are still in God's image, though marred. It's not mutually exclusive.

tdidymas, I agree with you. Well said!

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

The bolded and underlined text above shows where you deviated from sound doctrine. We are not taught to conform to the image of Christ or face the alternative. If God could have written a rule that if followed would give eternal life, then He wouldn't have sacrificed His Son for our sins (Ga 2:21, 3:31).

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. (Ro 8:29–30)​

Good point, NewLifeInChrist!

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The bolded and underlined text above shows where you deviated from sound doctrine. We are not taught to conform to the image of Christ or face the alternative. If God could have written a rule that if followed would give eternal life, then He wouldn't have sacrificed His Son for our sins (Ga 2:21, 3:31).

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. (Ro 8:29–30)​

Your Calvinistic view is unbiblical, it leads to complacency, a false sense of security. God did write this rule - "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." "If you love me, keep my commandments." God is no respector of person, He has no partiality. If all whom He called were "predestined", then why "many are called, but few are chosen" (Matt. 22:14)? What happened to the rest?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

If God could have written a rule that if followed would give eternal life, then He wouldn't have sacrificed His Son for our sins (Ga 2:21, 3:31).

Your misunderstanding has turned this into a transaction and legalism. What was really written was, those who believe in Jesus will jave eternal life, and those who have eternal life will follow. Discipleship is the result of salvation, not requirement.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Your Calvinistic view is unbiblical,

I don't have a Calvinistic point of view. You are the one who first referenced Romans 8:28 saying, "We're taught to conform to image of Christ (Rom. 8:29)." That's not what Romans 8:29 says. It says that according to His foreknowledge He pre-determined our destiny to be conformed to the image of Christ. He is the one who conforms us to the image of Christ. We don't do that to ourselves.

it leads to complacency,

We are called to liberty (Ga 5:13a). Paul writes 6 chapters warning, teaching, urging, pleading the Galatians to not rest their hope in their conformance to the law but in Christ. And He spends only 1/3 of one verse on the possibility that they may misuse their liberty (Ga 5:13b). Why?

Because it is way more common for people to refuse to use their liberty than it is for them to misuse their liberty. Both are bad, but the first is worse.

a false sense of security.

Yeah, no. I know I have eternal life. I know I will never perish. How do I know? Because I have an intimate personal relationship with the one in whom I have believed. And He has persuaded me that He is able to keep my soul safe from all dangers until the day I see Him face-to-face (verses available upon request).

God did write this rule - "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." "If you love me, keep my commandments." God is no respector of person, He has no partiality. If all whom He called were "predestined", then why "many are called, but few are chosen" (Matt. 22:14)? What happened to the rest?

Like I said, I don't have Calvinistic beliefs. I think He calls everyone and chooses to save only those who believe...

For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (1 Co 1:21)​

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Your misunderstanding has turned this into a transaction and legalism. What was really written was, those who believe in Jesus will jave eternal life, and those who have eternal life will follow. Discipleship is the result of salvation, not requirement.

This is at issue: "We're taught to conform to image of Christ (Rom. 8:29)... If you don't conform in the image of Christ, you know what the alternative is? The image of the Beast (Rev. 13:14-15)".

And you're right, I see it as legalism. Why? Because of the words "We are taught to conform" and "If you don't conform". These words seem to put "conforming" before salvation, making it a pre-condition of salvation. If you meant for "conform" to be the work of God upon our salvation, it might have read more like: "We are taught that saved people have been conformed to the image of Christ... If you havn't been conformed to the image of Christ, then you are bearing the image of the beast". If that's what you meant, the OP looks perfectly good to me, and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I don't have a Calvinistic point of view. You are the one who first referenced Romans 8:28 saying, "We're taught to conform to image of Christ (Rom. 8:29)." That's not what Romans 8:29 says. It says that according to His foreknowledge He pre-determined our destiny to be conformed to the image of Christ. He is the one who conforms us to the image of Christ. We don't do that to ourselves.

You're a Calvinist as long as you tout "predestination" and deny free will. Conform to the image of Christ is a conscious and informed choice, it's not automatic or forced upon.

We are called to liberty (Ga 5:13a). Paul writes 6 chapters warning, teaching, urging, pleading the Galatians to not rest their hope in their conformance to the law but in Christ. And He spends only 1/3 of one verse on the possibility that they may misuse their liberty (Ga 5:13b). Why?

Because it is way more common for people to refuse to use their liberty than it is for them to misuse their liberty. Both are bad, but the first is worse.

But these days the latter is far more common than the first, liberty is equated with licentiousness. You can still pretend that the former is the prevailing issue, I don't.

Yeah, no. I know I have eternal life. I know I will never perish. How do I know? Because I have an intimate personal relationship with the one in whom I have believed. And He has persuaded me that He is able to keep my soul safe from all dangers until the day I see Him face-to-face (verses available upon request).

This depends on how you read the bible. Take Rom. 8:29 for instance, if you take a narcissistic approach by reading it as a personal message for you, of course you'd believe that you're predestined, you're foreknown, you're called, justified, glorified, therefore your fate is sealed and secure, isn't it？However, if you take a humble approach by reading it from God's perspective, or just from the ancient Roman church's perspective, you'd realize that what God really had foreknown and predestined is His church - as an institution and the body of Christ, which will be filled with multitudes of every tongue, tribe and nation.

Like I said, I don't have Calvinistic beliefs. I think He calls everyone and chooses to save only those who believe...

Like I said, "believe" and thus conform to the image of Christ is a conscious and informed choice. In the parable of the ten virgins, I don't think God had predestined five of them to have replenished their lamp oil.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

You're a Calvinist as long as you tout "predestination" and deny free will. Conform to the image of Christ is a conscious and informed choice, it's not automatic or forced upon.

I don't tout predestination. But I do undand it. Just as the verse says, God knew in advance who would put their trust in Christ. This is called foreknowledge (knowing something before it happens). For those who made the choice to rest all their weight on Christ, God determined their destiny ahead of time (i.e., He knew what decision they would make before they made it). This is called predestination (a pre-determined destiny). And the destiny that He determined ahead of time for those who would put their trust in Christ was to be conformed to His image. This happens in real time when Jesus comes to live in a person's heart thereby making him a new creature. God did not decide on the spur of the moment that this was going to happen to each believer when they put their trust in Christ. He determined way ahead of time that this would happen for believers. We can even sit here today and say with certainty that all people who will put their trust in Christ in the future will enjoy the same destiny as ours -- they will be conformed to His image by spiritual birth. This is not what Calvinists believe. They believe God chooses who will believe and who will not believe in Christ.

But these days the latter is far more common than the first, liberty is equated with licentiousness. You can still pretend that the former is the prevailing issue, I don't.

For you, brethren, have been called to liberty (Ga 5:13).​

I have never heard anyone say we have been called to licentiousness. This just tells me that you don't understand what it means to be called to liberty.

This depends on how you read the bible. Take Rom. 8:29 for instance, if you take a narcissistic approach by reading it as a personal message for you, of course you'd believe that you're predestined, you're foreknown, you're called, justified, glorified, therefore your fate is sealed and secure, isn't it？

Like I said, Calvinism does not inform my sense of security.

However, if you take a humble approach by reading it from God's perspective, or just from the ancient Roman church's perspective, you'd realize that what God really had foreknown and predestined is His church - as an institution and the body of Christ, which will be filled with multitudes of every tongue, tribe and nation.

It is clear that Romans 8:28-30 is about individuals who are all children of God (i.e., first generation offspring of the Living God). He is "the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro 8:29).

Like I said, "believe" and thus conform to the image of Christ is a conscious and informed choice. In the parable of the ten virgins, I don't think God had predestined five of them to have replenished their lamp oil.

If we were going to discuss it, we would first say that replinishing their oil (or not) was not their destiny. Their destiny was to join the Bridegroom (or not). God predetermined that everyone who replinished their oil would join the Bridegroom and He predetermined that those who din't replenish their oil would not join the bridegroom. The Calvinist would say God chose ahead of time who would replenish their oil and who would not. But I am not a Calvinist. I say He had foreknowledge, therefore He knew ahead of time who would in the end be with the Bridegroom and who would not.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I don't tout predestination. But I do undand it. Just as the verse says, God knew in advance who would put their trust in Christ. This is called foreknowledge (knowing something before it happens). For those who made the choice to rest all their weight on Christ, God determined their destiny ahead of time (i.e., He knew what decision they would make before they made it). This is called predestination (a pre-determined destiny). And the destiny that He determined ahead of time for those who would put their trust in Christ was to be conformed to His image. This happens in real time when Jesus comes to live in a person's heart thereby making him a new creature. God did not decide on the spur of the moment that this was going to happen to each believer when they put their trust in Christ. He determined way ahead of time that this would happen for believers. We can even sit here today and say with certainty that all people who will put their trust in Christ in the future will enjoy the same destiny as ours -- they will be conformed to His image by spiritual birth. This is not what Calvinists believe. They believe God chooses who will believe and who will not believe in Christ.

Of course God has foreknowledge, He has foreknowledge of everything, the end was declared at the beginning, it's all about God's grand design. I'm not here to argue about the intricate theology of it, the question is not what the verse says, but HOW you read it, as I've pointed out - not everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven, nor does everyone who's predestined in Christ ahead of time. I was simply warning about self deception if you take this "predestination" personally.

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matt. 7:21-23)

For you, brethren, have been called to liberty (Ga 5:13).​

I have never heard anyone say we have been called to licentiousness. This just tells me that you don't understand what it means to be called to liberty.

Of course you don't, no false teacher promotes licentiousness directly, it's always packed with a label of liberty. It is our responsibility to know the difference and adhere to the true meaning of the word, unfortunately you don't seem to get that.

Like I said, Calvinism does not inform my sense of security.

I'm not here to judge or lecture, I only condemn Calvinism.

It is clear that Romans 8:28-30 is about individuals who are all children of God (i.e., first generation offspring of the Living God). He is "the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro 8:29).

Again, don't throw the book at me, I'm not here debating on what the verse says and what it means, I'm asking you whether you read that as a self help message, whether you subconsciously or consciously apply the title "child of God" to yourself. I'm under no delusion, my mind is sober enough to remember that this book was written to the ancient Roman church first and foremost, the primary recipents were Sister Phoebe, Priscilla, Aquilla, etc., not you and me.

To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (Rom. 1:7)

If we were going to discuss it, we would first say that replinishing their oil (or not) was not their destiny. Their destiny was to join the Bridegroom (or not). God predetermined that everyone who replinished their oil would join the Bridegroom and He predetermined that those who din't replenish their oil would not join the bridegroom. The Calvinist would say God chose ahead of time who would replenish their oil and who would not. But I am not a Calvinist. I say He had foreknowledge, therefore He knew ahead of time who would in the end be with the Bridegroom and who would not.

Hindsight is always 20/20, of course God is omnipotent and omniscient, we can always say that everything that has happened was meant to be, it was all predestined, nobody can do anything about it, doesn't that sound disempowering and discouraging? Look, what matters is to replenish our oil, if you truly believe that replenishing oil (or not) is not anybody's destiny. The real topic of this discussion is human agency and personal responsibility in terms of "comforming to His image", not predestination.