Imagination~ What Does God Say About It?

[Slyvena]

I will not listen to someone that is out of line with the LORD

um, well I guess that's your prerogative than, care you explain why I'm out of line with the LORD.

I said a prayer for you because you want to rival which is the gateway to confusion. If you tell me anything--as a Christian back it up with Scripture, not your own understanding.

For wherever there is jealousy (envy) and contention (rivalry and selfish ambition), there will also be confusion (unrest, disharmony, rebellion) and all sorts of evil and vile practices. -James 3:16

Back on topic, here's another Scripture on Imagination:
And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart. -Jeremiah 18:12

Mate, I in no way want to rival you, I'm having a perfectly normal discussion with you, this won't cause confusion, it will simply allow others to see both our points and come to a conclusion themselves, which is how it should be. Now if we both started going off at each other and started posting long winded complex arguments all over the place that would be rivalry and it would cause confusion, but we are most certainly not anywhere near that yet.

We can't always quote the bible when giving advice, some modern issues are completely outside the scope of the bible, the bibles collective teachings and sense however can be carried over into interpreting them, I'm not saying this is such a topic, just that advice without a quote is not automatically discredited without any consideration what so ever. What is our interpretation of scripture other than our own understanding, the many different denominations are proof of the fact that even with scripture what we get out of the book still depends heavily on us (I wish it were different) sound advice is still sound advice is if doesn't go against the bible.

You didn't need to post a scripture to tell me that rivalry is bad, that's pretty obvious, speaking of obvious the new scripture you just posted once again links imagination as being an act of "his evil heart"

Show me a verse which basically says "Imagination is bad", not "Their Imagination and thoughts were bad because of the condition of their hearts" which is what all the ones posted so far have been about.

I haven't posted scripture because I've simply been using the ones you have posted and showing they can be interpreted two ways which means that by themselves they are not sufficient. Which is turn prompts more discussion, which is a good thing.

 

[WWJD2010]

Slyvena, its obvious you are confused about the Word of God, God doesn't give two different interpretations of His Word, it is what it is, plain and simple. You will be held accountable for your contentious spirit regarding His Word. I think you honestly don't know any better, so I will pray for you to get under some real Christ/Bible teaching soon. I will not go back and forth with you because you "think" you're right, and the Lord says when we tell someone something tell them twice, after that leave them alone for Scripture says:
Avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man/woman that is an heretick (an agitator) after the first and second admonition reject ; Knowing that he/she that is such is subverted, and sinneth, condemning him/herself. -Titus 3:9-11

 

[WWJD2010]

Proverbs 15:26:
The LORD detests the thoughts of the wicked,
but those of the pure are pleasing to him.

Mark 7:20-22
20He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly.

Ephesians 2:1-10
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

James 2:4
have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

These Scriptures are excellent. Because you gave the overall view of what the imagination can produce (I'm not insinuating in general terms). But, Hebrews 4:12 is one of my favorite Scriptures, His Word is living and can cut out what isn't like Him in us, how powerful!!! This is imperative as well, as you posted above: Not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:9-10. :amen Praise God in the mighty name of Jesus Christ who lives!!!

 

[Nick]

Proverbs 15:26:
The LORD detests the thoughts of the wicked,
but those of the pure are pleasing to him.

Mark 7:20-22
20He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly.

Ephesians 2:1-10
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

James 2:4
have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

These Scriptures are excellent. Because you gave the overall view of what the imagination can produce (I'm not insinuating in general terms). But, Hebrews 4:12 is one of my favorite Scriptures, His Word is living and can cut out what isn't like Him in us, how powerful!!! This is imperative as well, as you posted above: Not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:9-10. :amen Praise God in the mighty name of Jesus Christ who lives!!!

Thankyou.

It is imperative that we understand that immagination can be both good and evil...depends on what you use it for, and of course the heart and tongue are like this, they are both described in the same way.

There is a passage in the book of James which deals with the tongue and in part the heart, which I think could also be applied to the immagination/thoughts:

James 3:1-12
1Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.

3When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal. 4Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go. 5Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. 6The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

7All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and creatures of the sea are being tamed and have been tamed by man, 8but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.

9With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. 10Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. 11Can both fresh water and salt[a] water flow from the same spring? 12My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.

 

[jasoncran]

The mind itself can be redeemed that is what i meant. I have two relatives that are epileptic and my wife has bi-polar. It(psychology) has its uses and it can be like anything corrupted, just like a regular md can kill with his knowledge(abortion) or save lives. It how it used and the person using the tool(psychology) and at time those things will clash and i will take the word over what a doc says. I have been told and seen some give ungodly advice.

please, please educate me on what bi polar mental illness is. Why is it supposedly only treated with drugs?
I heard bi polar was like obsessive compulsive, where when there is the high, the person spends wildly, or drinks, does drugs, is sexually wild, anything compulsively. ANd, that action happens to give the bi polar an emotional RELEASE of something.
The depression is also due to the bi polar's outlook, they convince themselves that life is now just a dreary, sad nothing.

I'm glad to hear you will take the Word, over what the doctor says.
What ungodly advice have you seen/been given?[/quote

How does one convince themselve of their depression? My wife has a lost some short term memory,and is unable to deal with stress and tends to anti-socail, Bi-polar can also have panic attacks that will kill. the person may hear voices. It is also treated with the therapy of learning to deal with the stressors of ife.My wife describes hear depression is that thing is that is a heavy weight that wont be moved and looses all desire to shower and eat and so on. I know when she goes there as i hear it in her voice. Crying for now reason and being afraid to socialize. My wife wont make new friends. This is common amongts bi-polar.

 

[jasoncran]

I have been told to use pot for the treatment of ptsd, that is the impression that i was given and or pot is ok. Porn is ok, was told by a marital conselor to a freind of mine, whose wife wanted him to quit.

 

[Slyvena]

Slyvena, its obvious you are confused about the Word of God, God doesn't give two different interpretations of His Word, it is what it is, plain and simple. You will be held accountable for your contentious spirit regarding His Word. I think you honestly don't know any better, so I will pray for you to get under some real Christ/Bible teaching soon. I will not go back and forth with you because you "think" you're right, and the Lord says when we tell someone something tell them twice, after that leave them alone for Scripture says:
Avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man/woman that is an heretick (an agitator) after the first and second admonition reject ; Knowing that he/she that is such is subverted, and sinneth, condemning him/herself. -Titus 3:9-11

WJD2010... this is now the 3rd time in as many responses that I have to correct your understanding of what I've said... please stop twisting my words (if its unintentional than fair enough), rather than assuming I've completly misintrepted scripture please make a post along the lines of "wait, you can't possible mean ################" not one like the one I'm responding to.

I didn't say that God has two different interpretations of His word I'm saying that people in our imperfect world do, and since God doesn't suddenly reveal our misinterpretations of a verse to us as we read it (okay he does sometimes, but not all the time) that means we have to compare multiple verses to come to a decision. The point I was making was that the verses provided didn't give a wide enough picture, especially given the points about how they are all connected back tot he issue of the heart which by the way you really haven't replied to either.

Out of curiosity, amidst all this correcting what I've been saying and pointing out your mis-representations of what I've said, I don't actually know your stance on the matter.

Mine is simply that imagination is not in and of itself evil, imagination is really just a branch of our thinking, and our thinking can be evil or good.

As for your only tell them twice policy, good luck converting people with that, I've found its taken well over 5 (worded differently but still the same message). Now as if it wasn't obvious already, the scripture you posted once again is not telling you to cease discussion with anyone who argues with you for more than one post, its saying that if you present your complete point and they completely disregard it than fair enough they aren't going to listen.

Contrary to what you might think (since you seem to be constantly jumping to the worst possible conclusions about me) I am indeed quite interested in discussing this with you, which is why I've left open ended questions (which you haven't answered) at times and at no stage said that I had made up my mind (which you have assumed). I am always open to someone throwing me a curveball in scripture that makes me completely rethink things IF it is proven by scripture and I have been shown to be wrong.

Now, can we please have a discussion on this, or do you consider me a lost cause, not even worth trying to talk too? Unfortunately I don't think you'll even bother to read this post after your last statement, too bad... we might have actually started discussing the point again rather than me constantly defending myself...

 

[Free]

Good thing no one told Henry Ford that imagination was evil....

 

[Free]

do not judge a teaching by its follower but the teaching on its own merit, if every Christian on the planet was not a true believer than would you discredit the religion because of their failure?

All of these when you look closer are not referring to the evilness of imagination but of the heart. As believers God has placed within us the ability to defy the nature of our heart and seek him, as such all things that draw from the heart bear this same state. So just like our heart, Imagination is both evil and good depending on the person and circumstance. Sexual Fantasies would be an example of an evil use, Day Dreaming to amuse yourself for fun would be a recreational use.

I will not listen to someone that is out of line with the LORD, you might listen to every person who comes along, I will not, Scripture says we should be on the same accord. Its late and I don't have time to debate with you over such non-sense. The thread is topic is: Imagination~ What Does God Say About It?

That response is very unwarranted given the statement that was made, especially since the statement is true. :gah

 

[WWJD2010]

As a body believing Christian hungry for the Word of God, I want to discuss topics with someone bringing Scripture to the table, that's following the guideline of the Bible. True statements have Scripture to back it up. I was taught years ago under the ministry as a baby Christian that whenever someone tells me something they must back it up with Scripture--that way I know its from God. How can we profess to be Christians followers of Christ and we come to the table without the Word of God??

Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought, purpose, and action), So that the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work. -2Ti 3:16-17

 

[Free]

As a body believing Christian hungry for the Word of God, I want to discuss topics with someone bringing Scripture to the table, that's following the guideline of the Bible. True statements have Scripture to back it up. I was taught years ago under the ministry as a baby Christian that whenever someone tells me something they must back it up with Scripture--that way I know its from God. How can we profess to be Christians followers of Christ and we come to the table without the Word of God??

The Bible is far from being exhaustive on most matters and fails to mention anything about many matters. Not everything that is true is in Scripture, so not all true statements can be backed up by Scripture. God expects us to use our minds, our reason, to figure many things out, not to mention tradition and experience.

 

[Slyvena]

As a body believing Christian hungry for the Word of God, I want to discuss topics with someone bringing Scripture to the table, that's following the guideline of the Bible. True statements have Scripture to back it up. I was taught years ago under the ministry as a baby Christian that whenever someone tells me something they must back it up with Scripture--that way I know its from God. How can we profess to be Christians followers of Christ and we come to the table without the Word of God??

The Bible is far from being exhaustive on most matters and fails to mention anything about many matters. Not everything that is true is in Scripture, so not all true statements can be backed up by Scripture. God expects us to use our minds, our reason, to figure many things out, not to mention tradition and experience.

Exactly! thank you Free, actually WWKD2010 I think I've just figured out why it was so hard to talk to you and discuss matters. You've been brought up that the scripture is the infallible word of God (which is true) and that we should always apply it to our lives (which is true). But in being taught that our minds are impure and that the bible is the only infallible source of knowledge you have become too attached to its most literal interpretation. (My case in point about how you refused to talk to me more than twice even AFTER I told you why that was an incorrect understanding of the scripture). You need to understand that the bible wasn't written in English and moreover the meanings of words change over time, English I believe has about a 3rd as many words as Greek/Hebrew (or something like that) making it very hard to translate the bible accurately. That's why we should always interpret scripture in context not just its blank in-your-face words.

You want scripture for everything that has been told you, I and others have been using scripture! we've been using the exact same quotes of scripture that you have! But rather than simply stating a scripture and saying "This shows I'm right" I have taken the time to analyse and put forth its meaning in the proper context and understanding of its sentence structure, the Word of God is great and all but its not everything, God guides us many other ways and in some areas just expects us to use our head, common sense is from God.

The fact that you love the bible so much is great! But you need to realise that it needs to be interpreted in the proper context of what is being said.

Once again to show you I do use scripture, if you fail to get what I'm saying this time than I will have presented my complete point while simultaneously proving all your points wrong for the second time, and so by your own advice I'll stop trying unless you come up with something new to say or some new scripture that adds something to your argument. You've been a great trial in the area of patience for me, so I guess I can thank you for that. I pray for you, that you may come to understand scripture in its full light, seldom do we get the meaning right first try... its why we read it again and again and always seem to come away with more, that's the wonder of the word, there is so much there in the words that you just can't see if you make up your mind about them.

I mean... COME ON, are you seriously trying to convince me that if I imagine a duck floating on a purple lake that's evil! That if I lose something and start picturing all the places I might have put it, because I'm imagining things that's evil! That if my husband is sick, I imagine him feeling better and smiling to cheer myself up sometimes that's evil! No lets get simpler, if I imagine a blue ball doing nothing at all, just sitting somewhere.... that's evil...? Do you see the point I'm making... please tell me you do... cause I don't know what I else I can say...

 

[WWJD2010]

This conversation is secular. As I can see there are NO Scriptures in the convo, so I will find another discussion possibly forum to go to because its ALL ABOUT CHRIST!!!! This is too sad!!!! I tell you the devil is so busy! I rebuke Satan in the name of Jesus Christ. I'm unsubscribing from this thread. And I haven't read anything from neither of you because you don't back up your claims with Scripture. Christ isn't in this.

And Jesus prayed, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do... -Luke 23:34

 

[Nick]

How is this conversation secular? We are presenting our side of the discussion with Biblical ideas, and using Bible verse quotes to jusitfy our answers.

 

[jasoncran]

Uh we aslo ventured into the evils pyschology. That is why i responded to that.

 

[Nick]

Nothing wrong with phsycology either.

Don't see what the problem here is.

 

[jasoncran]

Nothing wrong with phsycology either.

Don't see what the problem here is.

some will say because that field used to tell that guilt was wrong and that a lifestyle is ok. Man is defective and needs to corrected,via conseling. Rather then calling it sin they call it alcholism vs drunkard. This is not say that all of psychoogy is bad, i rather take the Lord over man, sorry. aa is good but one can be sober and still go to hell. aa is another topic alltogether.

 

[Free]

This conversation is secular. As I can see there are NO Scriptures in the convo, so I will find another discussion possibly forum to go to because its ALL ABOUT CHRIST!!!! This is too sad!!!! I tell you the devil is so busy! I rebuke Satan in the name of Jesus Christ. I'm unsubscribing from this thread. And I haven't read anything from neither of you because you don't back up your claims with Scripture. Christ isn't in this.

And Jesus prayed, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do... -Luke 23:34

Well, it really is too bad you feel that way. If you do venture back in here, please answer the following question: Since we are made in God's image and God is a creative God, do you believe that we too are creative beings and that in order to be creative we must use our imaginations?

If you think that the imagination is always evil, then anything it produces must also be evil. This would include computers, the Internet, planes, trains, (and) automobiles, works of art, music, etc. The list is, for all intents and purposes, endless.

Nothing wrong with phsycology either.

Don't see what the problem here is.

some will say because that field used to tell that guilt was wrong and that a lifestyle is ok. Man is defective and needs to corrected,via conseling. Rather then calling it sin they call it alcholism vs drunkard. This is not say that all of psychoogy is bad, i rather take the Lord over man, sorry. aa is good but one can be sober and still go to hell. aa is another topic alltogether.

Psychology has it's place but it also has it's limits.

 

[jasoncran]

I'm not disagreeing with you free, rather i'm showing the person behind the field is what makes it wholesome and helpful, not that a christian cant see a secular psychologist. I just think that if one is trying to break free from the lbgt lifestye i think the help wont be from the secular psychologist.

just look at what the apa says about the that lifestyle.

That's where i'm coming from.

 

[Biblereader]

Perhaps we could return to the topic at hand please? (which is, in case people have forgotten about God and the immagination).

Good idea!