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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Immersion Baptism vs HolyGhost Baptism
- Thread starter Classik
- Start date
So my children asked me why we could not hear the sound of the sizzling water when the sun touched the ocean at sunset.
And I could not rightly reply. I told them to listen carefully when it was very calm and very quiet and very peaceful. As they did so they were able to 'hear' that sound that they so wanted to hear.
Part of your question involves some slight confusion because it asks others who may have Heard His Voice for their opinion, rather than asking directly as you are directed. You know the word, it is in your mouth. This is accomplished by the Holy Spirit alone. Ask, and it shall be answered. Seek and you shall find, Knock and the door shall be opened.
Look now to what was being spoken of:
And then Look again and BEHOLD(!):
And I could not rightly reply. I told them to listen carefully when it was very calm and very quiet and very peaceful. As they did so they were able to 'hear' that sound that they so wanted to hear.
Part of your question involves some slight confusion because it asks others who may have Heard His Voice for their opinion, rather than asking directly as you are directed. You know the word, it is in your mouth. This is accomplished by the Holy Spirit alone. Ask, and it shall be answered. Seek and you shall find, Knock and the door shall be opened.
Look now to what was being spoken of:
Matthew chapter 7 said:
And then Look again and BEHOLD(!):
Luke chapter 11 said:
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CornerStone
Member
Not everyone believes in the the gift of tongues.
If you do, there's certainly no scriptural basis for it being synonymous with receiving the Holy Ghost.
To answer your question, you need to accept Christ to make it to heaven, and you receive the Holy Ghost when you accept Christ. You should be baptized, but you won't be denied entry into heaven if you get saved and die an hour later. So, I would say Holy Ghost Baptism is more important.
If you do, there's certainly no scriptural basis for it being synonymous with receiving the Holy Ghost.
To answer your question, you need to accept Christ to make it to heaven, and you receive the Holy Ghost when you accept Christ. You should be baptized, but you won't be denied entry into heaven if you get saved and die an hour later. So, I would say Holy Ghost Baptism is more important.
I believe that we should be baptised by water once we are saved as a outwardly sign of our salvation but it certainly does not save you.
“A man who knows that he is saved by believing in Christ does not, when he is baptized, lift his baptism into a saving ordinance. In fact, he is the very best protester against that mistake, because he holds that he has no right to be baptized until he is saved.” ~ Charles Spurgeon
“A man who knows that he is saved by believing in Christ does not, when he is baptized, lift his baptism into a saving ordinance. In fact, he is the very best protester against that mistake, because he holds that he has no right to be baptized until he is saved.” ~ Charles Spurgeon
ZHarner83
Member
berk60, I agree with that.
Your heart (symbolically) is what matters most. God knows when you're truly saved. And you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit when he deems you ready. The water baptism is a great way to show your commitment to Christ; to him and others.
I baptized my friend in the back yard the other week actually. It was still pretty chilly here in Ohio. The water temperature was probably in the 30s in my baptism trough. I told my friend when he got in it, that he needs to understand the commitment that he was making. And that the suffering he was feeling while sitting in that water wasn't even close to the suffering Christ went through so that he could be saved. It got the point across to him, and I got to laugh at him a little bit
Your heart (symbolically) is what matters most. God knows when you're truly saved. And you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit when he deems you ready. The water baptism is a great way to show your commitment to Christ; to him and others.
I baptized my friend in the back yard the other week actually. It was still pretty chilly here in Ohio. The water temperature was probably in the 30s in my baptism trough. I told my friend when he got in it, that he needs to understand the commitment that he was making. And that the suffering he was feeling while sitting in that water wasn't even close to the suffering Christ went through so that he could be saved. It got the point across to him, and I got to laugh at him a little bit
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You are correct when you say the two are not synonymous. Peter, lead by the Holy Spirit, has emphatically stated that he knew 'they' (Gentiles) were no longer to be denied water baptism because he heard them speak in tongues. He later declared that they were filled "like as we at the beginning".
Speaking in tongues, as an evidence of the Holy Spirit living inside us is different than the GIFT of tongues Paul talks about in I Corinthians 12. Speaking in tongues is a prayer language that only you and God share. No one knows what we are talking about to God, it's our little secret. What happened in the Early Church was that their prayer language had become a status symbol, so all the people were running around speaking in tongues and it was making the church look like they were crazy. That's what Paul cautioned the church he helped to found in Corinth about. There is still no small amount of confusion about tongues given at the time of the breathing of the Pneuma of God baptism and the more formal "Gift of Tongues" itself that is given strictly for the benefit of the assembly. One is given for personal edification, for we know not what we speak, but the Spirit intercedes for us with things that may not be uttered. A personal prayer language, if you will. The other is given for the edification of the church and/or assembly and needs to be interpreted or quieted. One is restricted, the other is commanded to not be forbidden.
See also
Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Acts 19:6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
1Cor 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
1Cor 14:39 Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
Acts 16:31 says....'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved...'
Again, let us see what the Bible says...Acts 10:1- 48. Focus point is on verses Acts 10:44-46 "The Holy Ghost was poured out on the Gentiles also (all those who were not Jews were considered to be gentiles). God poured out His Spirit on the Jews but this is the first time recorded that a Gentile received "the gift" of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 1:8;2:1-2,3-4, Acts 1:8-14;2:37-8,39-40). Did you notice that each time someone was filled with the Holy Ghost they spoke with other tongues? Acts 11:14-18 says now both Jews and Gentiles are granted salvation. Peter reported what had happened when he witnessed the salvation of the Gentiles and urged that they too be allowed water baptism.
Here's what Peter said about that:
Peter explains his actions:
Paul spoke Concerning Spiritual Gifts
He corrected the church because they were in danger of becoming the sound of a gong or a clanging cymbal and of not being understood. So Paul spoke of the "Gifts" that came after the baptism [which is also a Gift] of the Holy Spirit. One of those "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" is the 'Gift of Tongues" and yet another that Paul spoke of is the "Gift of Prophecy". Paul said, "Do not forbid the speaking of tongues."
But this is going too far adrift of the topic which seeks to compare the two Baptisms. There are more than two, but we're looking at the two for now. Yes, glossolalia (tongues) is mentioned because that is a sign that Peter spoke of while giving his evidence and witness statement about why the Gentiles should no longer be prevented water Baptism, but no, this sign is not necessarily required. When it is seen, then we know. Unseen? (Or in this particular case, 'unheard') we may look at the Fruits of the Spirit and also know. Jesus clearly stated this is how we will know a tree - by its fruit!
Speaking in tongues, as an evidence of the Holy Spirit living inside us is different than the GIFT of tongues Paul talks about in I Corinthians 12. Speaking in tongues is a prayer language that only you and God share. No one knows what we are talking about to God, it's our little secret. What happened in the Early Church was that their prayer language had become a status symbol, so all the people were running around speaking in tongues and it was making the church look like they were crazy. That's what Paul cautioned the church he helped to found in Corinth about. There is still no small amount of confusion about tongues given at the time of the breathing of the Pneuma of God baptism and the more formal "Gift of Tongues" itself that is given strictly for the benefit of the assembly. One is given for personal edification, for we know not what we speak, but the Spirit intercedes for us with things that may not be uttered. A personal prayer language, if you will. The other is given for the edification of the church and/or assembly and needs to be interpreted or quieted. One is restricted, the other is commanded to not be forbidden.
See also
Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Acts 19:6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
1Cor 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
1Cor 14:39 Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
Acts 16:31 says....'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved...'
Again, let us see what the Bible says...Acts 10:1- 48. Focus point is on verses Acts 10:44-46 "The Holy Ghost was poured out on the Gentiles also (all those who were not Jews were considered to be gentiles). God poured out His Spirit on the Jews but this is the first time recorded that a Gentile received "the gift" of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 1:8;2:1-2,3-4, Acts 1:8-14;2:37-8,39-40). Did you notice that each time someone was filled with the Holy Ghost they spoke with other tongues? Acts 11:14-18 says now both Jews and Gentiles are granted salvation. Peter reported what had happened when he witnessed the salvation of the Gentiles and urged that they too be allowed water baptism.
Here's what Peter said about that:
Acts 10 said:
Peter explains his actions:
Acts 11 said:
Paul spoke Concerning Spiritual Gifts
1Cor 12 said:
He corrected the church because they were in danger of becoming the sound of a gong or a clanging cymbal and of not being understood. So Paul spoke of the "Gifts" that came after the baptism [which is also a Gift] of the Holy Spirit. One of those "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" is the 'Gift of Tongues" and yet another that Paul spoke of is the "Gift of Prophecy". Paul said, "Do not forbid the speaking of tongues."
But this is going too far adrift of the topic which seeks to compare the two Baptisms. There are more than two, but we're looking at the two for now. Yes, glossolalia (tongues) is mentioned because that is a sign that Peter spoke of while giving his evidence and witness statement about why the Gentiles should no longer be prevented water Baptism, but no, this sign is not necessarily required. When it is seen, then we know. Unseen? (Or in this particular case, 'unheard') we may look at the Fruits of the Spirit and also know. Jesus clearly stated this is how we will know a tree - by its fruit!
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Then, like my children, you think that I may explain why the sound of the sizzling sun is not heard. There is a difference between speaking in tongues and the baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Cordially,
SparrowHawke
Classik
Member
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You mean you didn't get in there with Him? LOL I was baptized in an area lake by our pastor a couple of years ago after I was born again. This is the second time I was baptized as the first time is when my mom had me baptized as an infant just month's old.
Classic, Which part of a soccer ball would/could you leave out and still have a quality soccer ball?
God is not a super market where we pick stuff off the shelve, doesn't work that way. As Sparrow said,
God is not a super market where we pick stuff off the shelve, doesn't work that way. As Sparrow said,
ask God He will give you truth..... We humans, we members here will try to be of help. Jesus is your Shepherd His Word gives us both baptisms are you willing to give one back tell Him you don't need/want it?
berk60, I agree with that.
Your heart (symbolically) is what matters most. God knows when you're truly saved. And you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit when he deems you ready. The water baptism is a great way to show your commitment to Christ; to him and others.
I baptized my friend in the back yard the other week actually. It was still pretty chilly here in Ohio. The water temperature was probably in the 30s in my baptism trough. I told my friend when he got in it, that he needs to understand the commitment that he was making. And that the suffering he was feeling while sitting in that water wasn't even close to the suffering Christ went through so that he could be saved. It got the point across to him, and I got to laugh at him a little bit
Awesome! Your friend was very determined. God Bless him, and God bless you.
JLB
G
Guest
Guest
It's not about which one is more important. It's about whether your faith is real or not. You can be immersed in water, but still not believe and confess in your heart and mouth. You can still be immersed in water, but still lack faith. All you would be is a wet duck without faith, believing and confessing.
Transformation is about believing, confessing and having faith in your mind/body/soul/spirit. Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Atonement
Member
Greetings to you all in the love of our Lord Christ Jesus
Please let me start by asking a question, wouldn't both be just as important?
Some Church's teach that you can not have the Holy Spirit unless one is baptized (water). I'm not sure about all the theories out there and the teachings of what can, and can not move the Holy Spirit. What I would suggest though, is that both are important in a believers life. If I may, I would like to correct some of the misunderstandings that to be baptized in the Spirit means one can speak in tongues. There are many gifts that the Holy Spirit uses, speaking in tongues is just one of them; but the Holy Spirit gives each person their own unique gift. Some believers make wonderful teachers, some counselors, and others pastors etc.
When we are baptized (water) I believe, it's an outward expression of an inward change, by accepting Christ Jesus as Lord. When we are baptized (Spirit) I believe, that is when God will use the believer to fulfill their calling by doing the work of the Lord and speaking to us through the Word of God. I think the Church get's hung up on different theories and theologies regarding this subject which is why there are so many threads created about the subject. But if you have been baptized and doing the work of the Lord, you are fulfilling the race that has been set before you. We all have a different race in life, but we all are trying to achieve the same goal.... Heaven
God Bless you all
and thank you for taking the time to here me rant
Please let me start by asking a question, wouldn't both be just as important?
Some Church's teach that you can not have the Holy Spirit unless one is baptized (water). I'm not sure about all the theories out there and the teachings of what can, and can not move the Holy Spirit. What I would suggest though, is that both are important in a believers life. If I may, I would like to correct some of the misunderstandings that to be baptized in the Spirit means one can speak in tongues. There are many gifts that the Holy Spirit uses, speaking in tongues is just one of them; but the Holy Spirit gives each person their own unique gift. Some believers make wonderful teachers, some counselors, and others pastors etc.
When we are baptized (water) I believe, it's an outward expression of an inward change, by accepting Christ Jesus as Lord. When we are baptized (Spirit) I believe, that is when God will use the believer to fulfill their calling by doing the work of the Lord and speaking to us through the Word of God. I think the Church get's hung up on different theories and theologies regarding this subject which is why there are so many threads created about the subject. But if you have been baptized and doing the work of the Lord, you are fulfilling the race that has been set before you. We all have a different race in life, but we all are trying to achieve the same goal.... Heaven
God Bless you all
and thank you for taking the time to here me rant
"rant"??
Sounded like a well balanced statement of truth to me. :nod Thanks to you also (and to the Holy Spirit who has taught you and has and is and will continue teaching us).
Atonement
Member
"rant"??
:nod Thanks to you also (and to the Holy Spirit who has taught you and has and is and will continue teaching us).
Thank you very much for the reply
If it will help teach or bless at least one person then I give all the glory to God...
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