What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

In Heaven!

Kathi said:
Do you not think that Jesus still bears the scars in His resurrected body?
Click to expand...
Gary said:
No.
.
Click to expand...
Kathi said:
Why?
Click to expand...

Let me start with this:

1 Corinthians 15
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.


If Jesus still bore the marks of His crucifixion, that would mean His body was still flesh. It would mean He had not yet ascended into heaven.

When Jesus ascended after His resurrection, it doesn't state that He ascended into heaven. It states that He ascended to His Father.

John 20
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


I know this sounds trivial, but I think it's important. If Jesus had received the body He would retain for all eternity and He showed Himself to all His disciples, why does John write this?

1 John 3
2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.


John was one of the people that saw Him after His resurrection. If Jesus was in the body He would keep for all eternity, why does John say "We shall see Him as He is"? It's obvious that what John and the rest of the disciples witnessed was not the final glorified body of Jesus. John states that we shall be like Him and that it hasn't been revealed yet.


Paul says this about Him in his letter to Timothy.

1 Timothy 6
16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.


Paul also witnessed the physical appearance of Jesus after His resurrection, yet he writes that "no man has seen" Him "or can see" Him.

If we retain these physical bodies we have now, do those who are born with physical deformities retain their bodies also? What about newborns and preemies that pass away shortly after birth? Are they stuck with those bodies for all eternity? And then there's the countless multitudes that are lost through abortion and miscarriage. What of them?

The bible states that these bodies return to the dust from which they came.

Ecclesiastes 12
7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

1 Corinthians 15
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the earth,made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.


I'm gonna stop here. I kinda did this on the fly and I need to collect my thoughts. I'm sure you'll have questions. Don't be afraid to ask.

Anyway, this is how I view things. If anyone believes I'm in error, you have my ear. As I said, iron sharpens iron.
.
 
Last edited:
Kathi said:
This has also confused me a bit too aqua.Yes,their will be a New Earth with I believe is the New Jerusalem but their is also a new heaven.I am wondering where we will reside.Will we go back and forth?
Click to expand...

Rev 21 indicates God will live on the New Earth with us.
 
Gary said:
Let me start with this:

1 Corinthians 15
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.


If Jesus still bore the marks of His crucifixion, that would mean His body was still flesh. It would mean He had not yet ascended into heaven.

When Jesus ascended after His resurrection, it doesn't state that He ascended into heaven. It states that He ascended to His Father.

John 20
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


I know this sounds trivial, but I think it's important. If Jesus had received the body He would retain for all eternity and He showed Himself to all His disciples, why does John write this?

1 John 3
2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.


John was one of the people that saw Him after His resurrection. If Jesus was in the body He would keep for all eternity, why does John say "We shall see Him as He is"? It's obvious that what John and the rest of the disciples witnessed was not the final glorified body of Jesus. John states that we shall be like Him and that it hasn't been revealed yet.


Paul says this about Him in his letter to Timothy.

1 Timothy 6
16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.


Paul also witnessed the physical appearance of Jesus after His resurrection, yet he writes that "no man has seen" Him "or can see" Him.

If we retain these physical bodies we have now, do those who are born with physical deformities retain their bodies also? What about newborns and preemies that pass away shortly after birth? Are they stuck with those bodies for all eternity? And then there's the countless multitudes that are lost through abortion and miscarriage. What of them?

The bible states that these bodies return to the dust from which they came.

Ecclesiastes 12
7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

1 Corinthians 15
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the earth,made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.


I'm gonna stop here. I kinda did this on the fly and I need to collect my thoughts. I'm sure you'll have questions. Don't be afraid to ask.

Anyway, this is how I view things. If any believes I'm in error, you have my ear. As I said, iron sharpens iron.
.
Click to expand...
1)Yes,for humans that would be correct.They will not go to heaven with that horrible scar that was with them on earth that they hated.They will have new perfect resurrected bodies.But Jesus scars are different.Jesus scars represent His sacrifice on the cross for us.It represents our salvation.They represent that He is our Savior.
2)Where do you think Jesus went after His resurrection?God is the Father of Jesus Christ.Where do you think God resides?
3)"For we shall see him as he is".Yes,they would all recognize Jesus.He did have a new new resurrected body but they still knew it was Jesus.Just like we are going to recognize Mom,Dad or grandma or grandpa in heaven.Their faces will not be some glob but the faces that we once knew.
4)As for miscarriages and abortions their souls are up are in heaven with Jesus right now.And they will get their resurrected bodies like everyone else.Just because they were miscarriages or abortions does not mean they have vanished in thin air.Do you believe that humans at the time of conception even though it is just a dot has a soul?Some people do not believe that.That is why some people believe in abortion.Just like those in the grave who have turned to dust or those bodies at sea which the fish have probably eaten a long time ago.They once had a soul.All believing souls go to heaven.All children will go to heaven.All those souls who are unbelievers who have died are in hades right now awaiting their judgment at the Great White Throne judgment.
 
Last edited:
agua. said:
Rev 21 indicates God will live on the New Earth with us.
Click to expand...
aqua I think the New earth is the "heaven" where we will spend eternity.This is where the heavenly city will be.It is the new earth that the pearly gates and streets of gold will be.As far as if we will have access to the other heaven I do not think we know that.We will just have to wait and see.
 
Kathi said:
1)Yes,for humans that would be correct.They will not go to heaven with that horrible scar that was with them on earth that they hated.They will have new perfect resurrected bodies.But Jesus scars are different.Jesus scars represent His sacrifice on the cross for us.It represents our salvation.They represent that He is our Savior.
Click to expand...

Why would there be a need to remember what Jesus accomplished at the cross? If there are memories of the crucifixion and reasons behind it, there will also be memories of sin. Memories of sin would still be sin and there will be no sin in heaven. Memories or otherwise. Everything from this life will be wiped away. Including memories.

Isaiah 65
17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.


2)Where do you think Jesus went after His resurrection?God is the Father of Jesus Christ.Where do you think God resides?
Click to expand...

Was the resurrected body Jesus had made of flesh?


3)"For we shall see him as he is".Yes,they would all recognize Jesus.He did have a new new resurrected body but they still knew it was Jesus.Just like we are going to recognize Mom,Dad or grandma or grandpa in heaven.Their faces will not be some glob but the faces that we once knew.
Click to expand...

Actually they didn't.

John 21
4 But when the morning had now come, Jesus stood on the shore; yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus.
5 Then Jesus said to them, “Children, have you any food?”

Luke 24
30 Now it came to pass, as He sat at the table with them, that He took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them.
31 Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight.

John 20
14 Now when she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, and did not know that it was Jesus.
15 Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?”

4)As for miscarriages and abortions their souls are up are in heaven with Jesus right now.And they will get their resurrected bodies like everyone else.Just because they were miscarriages or abortions does not mean they have vanished in thin air.Just like those in the grave who have turned to dust or those bodies at sea which the fish have probably eaten a long time ago.They once had a soul.All believing souls go to heaven.All children will go to heaven.All those souls who are unbelievers who have died are in hades right now awaiting their judgment at the Great White Throne judgment.
Click to expand...

But what will those resurrected bodies be? That's the point of this discussion. Will they be flesh or spiritual?
.
 
Kathi said:
aqua I think the New earth is the "heaven" where we will spend eternity.This is where the heavenly city will be.It is the new earth that the pearly gates and streets of gold will be.As far as if we will have access to the other heaven I do not think we know that.We will just have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

Oky doky Kathi. My impression is that if God lives on Earth with us then Heaven will figuratively be on Earth in the form of the New Jerusalem.
 
Gary said:
Let me start with this:

1 Corinthians 15
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.


If Jesus still bore the marks of His crucifixion, that would mean His body was still flesh. It would mean He had not yet ascended into heaven.

When Jesus ascended after His resurrection, it doesn't state that He ascended into heaven. It states that He ascended to His Father.

John 20
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


I know this sounds trivial, but I think it's important. If Jesus had received the body He would retain for all eternity and He showed Himself to all His disciples, why does John write this?

1 John 3
2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.


John was one of the people that saw Him after His resurrection. If Jesus was in the body He would keep for all eternity, why does John say "We shall see Him as He is"? It's obvious that what John and the rest of the disciples witnessed was not the final glorified body of Jesus. John states that we shall be like Him and that it hasn't been revealed yet.


Paul says this about Him in his letter to Timothy.

1 Timothy 6
16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.


Paul also witnessed the physical appearance of Jesus after His resurrection, yet he writes that "no man has seen" Him "or can see" Him.

If we retain these physical bodies we have now, do those who are born with physical deformities retain their bodies also? What about newborns and preemies that pass away shortly after birth? Are they stuck with those bodies for all eternity? And then there's the countless multitudes that are lost through abortion and miscarriage. What of them?

The bible states that these bodies return to the dust from which they came.

Ecclesiastes 12
7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

1 Corinthians 15
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the earth,made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.


I'm gonna stop here. I kinda did this on the fly and I need to collect my thoughts. I'm sure you'll have questions. Don't be afraid to ask.

Anyway, this is how I view things. If anyone believes I'm in error, you have my ear. As I said, iron sharpens iron.
.
Click to expand...
Gary said:
Why would there be a need to remember what Jesus accomplished at the cross? If there are memories of the crucifixion and reasons behind it, there will also be memories of sin. Memories of sin would still be sin and there will be no sin in heaven. Memories or otherwise. Everything from this life will be wiped away. Including memories.

Isaiah 65
17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.




Was the resurrected body Jesus had made of flesh?




Actually they didn't.

John 21
4 But when the morning had now come, Jesus stood on the shore; yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus.
5 Then Jesus said to them, “Children, have you any food?”

Luke 24
30 Now it came to pass, as He sat at the table with them, that He took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them.
31 Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight.

John 20
14 Now when she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, and did not know that it was Jesus.
15 Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?”



But what will those resurrected bodies be? That's the point of this discussion. Will they be flesh or spiritual?
.
Click to expand...

-At first the disciples did not recognize Jesus because Jesus did not want them to recognize Him.Then they did recognize Him.

-Jesus Christ resurrected body and our resurrected bodies will not be flesh."Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God 1 Corinthians 15:50.
 
agua. said:
Oky doky Kathi. My impression is that if God lives on Earth with us then Heaven will figuratively be on Earth in the form of the New Jerusalem.
Click to expand...
Well,along with the New Earth their will also be a heaven as well,separate of the New Earth.But it will be a new heaven.That is the part that the Bible does not say who will be allowed to go there.
 
Kathi said:
Well,along with the New Earth their will also be a heaven as well,separate of the New Earth.But it will be a new heaven.That is the part that the Bible does not say who will be allowed to go there.
Click to expand...

Take a look at the new heaven mentioned in Rev 21 because likely it's atmosphere and "skies" ( stars moon etc ) not God's dwelling place. It's an interesting study.
 
Kathi said:
-At first the disciples did not recognize Jesus because Jesus did not want them to recognize Him.Then they did recognize Him.

-Jesus Christ resurrected body and our resurrected bodies will not be flesh."Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God 1 Corinthians 15:50.
Click to expand...

Ok.
.
 
agua. said:
Take a look at the new heaven mentioned in Rev 21 because likely it's atmosphere and "skies" ( stars moon etc ) not God's dwelling place. It's an interesting study.
Click to expand...
Yes,it is a very interesting study.Their will be the New Earth yes,but then their will also be a new heaven which will be separate.We have alot to look forward to.Alot of surprises.I am thinking that they will be awesome surprises :)
 
Kathi said:
aqua I think the New earth is the "heaven" where we will spend eternity.This is where the heavenly city will be.It is the new earth that the pearly gates and streets of gold will be.As far as if we will have access to the other heaven I do not think we know that.We will just have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

So with this statement from Kathi, the thread has come back around to what the OP asked.
What is in Heaven that is man made? Well, closer anyway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top