Indwelling Holy Spirit/ Baptism Holy Spirit

[Mysteryman]

Quote faith: " Those Gentiles in Acts were already born again.

ACTS 19:
1And it came to pass , that, while Apollos was *at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them *, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed ? And they said unto him *, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized ? And they said , Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is , on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied .

They had been baptized in John's baptism."


Hi faith

In Acts 19 these here were not gentiles that had been baptized with John's baptism. They were Jews !

 

[daynayee]

Hi Daynayee,

And the baptism of the Holy Spirit is when we recieve the Holy Spirit, i believe there is a difference between Christ living on our hearts and the Holy Spirit. With the baptism of the Holy Spirit we recieve the spiritual gifts, the power that christ had, and speaking in tongue, etc.

The only problem I have with conceptualizing it this way is that I see Christ entering our heart through (by means of) the Spirit, or at least inseparably from the Spirit. I believe it is the Spirit that baptizes us into Christ's death, because it is also through the Spirit that Christ offered up his own blood to begin with:

"How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (Hebrews 9:14)

It is also through the Spirit, whom all believers receive, that we are given a down-payment or assurance of our salvation. I see the Spirit as the conduit through which all grace flows to the believer, such is the relationship in the Trinity toward the believer. Through the Spirit we may know the mind of God, through the Spirit we know of righteousness and judgment, through the Spirit we are to live by the power of Christ's blood to put to death the deeds of the flesh. Nothing in the Christian life can be done apart from the Spirit, yet the source of the power is from the Father who imputes to us Jesus's righteousness and hides our life in Christ. The relationships in the Trinity and the roles in relation to us are so complex I can't pretend to understand it all, but because I see the Baptism of the Spirit as essential (not optional) and as crucial to Christian identity I believe all believers have received the Baptism of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13) but then need to have active faith in Christ to receive (and continue to receive) the power and filling of the Spirit in order to live the Christian life.

I am always open to discussing this, so I would love to hear your thoughts.

God Bless,

~Josh

Touce! :yes

 

[awaken]

While Jesus was alive, the disciples had confessed Him as Lord (John 13:13). But were the disciples saved at that point because they did not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ (since Jesus had not yet died).

If one of the disciples had died during Jesus' ministry they still would have been saved by their faith in Christ, as with John the Baptist who probably never experienced the Baptism of the Spirit. Though on this side of the cross (in time) the Baptism of the Spirit seems synonymous to salvation God had already been doing a saving work in his people since the Old Testament, which was later manifested and revealed in Jesus. The Spirit had long been promised before Jesus had come in the flesh, since the time of Jeremiah, and Christ later reiterated to the disciples the assurance of their salvation and receiving the Spirit because they had remained with him throughout his ministry (Luke 22:28; John 14:26). And what was he doing other than reaffirming to them the Old Testament promise? Judas is of course an exception and Jesus early on identified Judas as a betrayer (John 6:70), which still boils down to original belief and a matter of the heart. Their salvation would have been secure by faith even during Jesus' ministry though.

At this point the disciples believed in the bodily resurrection of Christ, right? So..when the disciples were told to received the Holy Spirit on Resurrection Sunday..could it be they accepted salvation?

They certainly received something when Jesus breathed on them. Was it at that point that they were Baptized into the Spirit? I'm not sure, possibly not, but Pentecost was the full manifestation of the Spirit. Acts was a transitional period for the bestowal of the Spirit, so some confusion exists as to the order in which certain salvific events occur, but from the sum of all the accounts related it seems the most consistent to say that the Spirit is given upon saving belief in Jesus and that it is then that we are Baptized by the Spirit.

God Bless,

~Josh

You look young in your picture..but the wisdom in your post is amazing.

Question...about this scripture..
"But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. ... When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." (Acts 8:12-17)

Notice that Peter and John were not sent to Samaria until the apostles heard that the Samaritans had received salvation by believing the Gospel message which Philip had preached. When Peter and John arrived, they laid hands on the Samaritans and then the Holy Spirit came on the Samaritans. Therefore, some amount of time passed between the moment the Samaritans were saved and the moment they "received" the Holy Spirit. This brings up an interesting question. As we have seen, most Christian denominations teach that everyone automatically receives the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation, so why does it appear as if the Samaritans did not automatically receive the Holy Spirit when they received salvation? .

This passage says that the Holy Spirit had not yet "come upon" any of the Samaritans. Notice that this is the same wording which is used to describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit in all of the examples in Acts of the Baptism.

 

[cyberjosh]

Hello awaken, thank you for your thoughtful response.

You look young in your picture..but the wisdom in your post is amazing.

Well thank you. This is the one area (concerning the Spirit) which I have most personally sought after in study and fervently looked for the truth in the Scripture concerning the Spirit, because without the Spirit - that stream of living water (John 7:38) - the Christian life is completely dry like the dry bones in the valley of Ezekiel's vision. The breath (ruach) of God is the only thing which animates those dry bones. As for my youngness, I'll take that as a compliment. I am almost 23 but I do look quite baby faced in that picture. :D

Question...about this scripture..
"But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. ... When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." (Acts 8:12-17)

Notice that Peter and John were not sent to Samaria until the apostles heard that the Samaritans had received salvation by believing the Gospel message which Philip had preached. When Peter and John arrived, they laid hands on the Samaritans and then the Holy Spirit came on the Samaritans. Therefore, some amount of time passed between the moment the Samaritans were saved and the moment they "received" the Holy Spirit. This brings up an interesting question. As we have seen, most Christian denominations teach that everyone automatically receives the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation, so why does it appear as if the Samaritans did not automatically receive the Holy Spirit when they received salvation? .

This passage says that the Holy Spirit had not yet "come upon" any of the Samaritans. Notice that this is the same wording which is used to describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit in all of the examples in Acts of the Baptism.

Sure I'll take a crack at explaining that. You picked a good one. :D ;) Yes, this is where - as I said - there is some uncertainty in the order of events between salvation and the reception of the Spirit. It is clear that they believed unto salvation but without the Spirit can they be said to have been regenerated by the Spirit? I practically regard regeneration and salvation to be the same thing for us Christians today (it happens instantly upon belief - as with Cornelius), because of the description in Paul's epistles, yet I would say that these Samaritans were in the same situation the disciples were in during Jesus ministry before receiving the Holy Spirit. They truly believed, yet apart from the indwelling of the Spirit for the short term (with the inevitability of the promise before them though). How exactly the Old Testament "circumcision of the heart" is different than "regeneration in the Spirit" would be difficult for me to say or articulate - but the indwelling of the Spirit under the new covenant as a down-payment was definitely something new (as predicted in Jeremiah 31). The faith which all saints had prior to and up until Christ's death and resurrection was indeed a valid faith, but Christ inaugurated the new era of living out our faith through walking in the Spirit, by which the Spirit was poured out freely on all believers.

I honestly cannot tell you why God chose in this particular situation to delay the giving of the Spirit (because with Cornelius and the Gentiles in Acts 10 almost the opposite happened and they were filled with the Spirit before they had even been water baptized!) but possibly it was for public demonstration as a testimony to others - not done though because of some different way in which they had received Christ (there is only one way!). So it was possible for the Spirit to be received after believing at that time, but since Paul's ministry and how he describes salvation I do not think that can any longer be the case - which is why I believe Acts was a transitional period (as in some ways the Gospels themselves can be considered the ultimate transitional period) as regards the Spirit. Paul in Acts 19 made it clear that the Baptism in the Spirit was essential to the Christian life, and those believers in John's baptism needed it. If you did not see it earlier you can read my paper on baptism where I go into this in more depth.

Even if we can say it is possible for the Spirit to be received separately from our saving faith, as a forensic matter, I am convinced that the Christian life is based upon and even requires the Baptism of the Spirit as I learned from my study of the word dunamis (power). If you look at all the passages about the power of Christ in the believer you will see it in unconditional contexts clearly applying to the right and power every believer has in Christ, indeed the very power essential to putting to death deeds of the flesh and sanctifying ourselves in body and spirit (2 Corinthians 7:1). If you read my post before about how this impacted me, you will how freeing this realization was. I believe it is doctrinally sound to say that all believers as a gift from their loving Father God are given the Baptism of the Spirit - for how could we ever merit it of our own selves or be adequate as stewards of the new covenant apart from the Spirit?

I am but a fallible man, and may God be proved true and every man a liar, and I am not the last authority. Yet for all my sincere pursuit of the truth about the Spirit I cannot see it any other way. I am always open to discussion as is faithful to the Scripture to change my views, but I have not found a better explanation thus far. This understanding of the available power of the Spirit to believers reveals how it is only through the assistance of the Spirit we are able to keep the even higher standards (far higher than the law!) in Jesus' sermon on the mount which makes us responsible for even thoughts and attitudes before God. The great news: it is by the Spirit who gives us grace (not just as a "covering" but as power!) to actually live to this higher standard and accomplish all things through Christ Jesus who gives us this power through the Spirit. This is the key to the victorious Christian life! Hallelujah, "Not by (man's) might, nor by (man's) power, but by My Spirit' says the Lord'! (Zechariah 4:6). We are given all we require by the savior who bought us and gave his life up for us.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

As a general observation, as I have heard some wise men say before me: sometimes we have to hold truths in the Bible in paradoxial tension so that we do not gloss over one detail or the other for the sake of a tidy "systematic theology".

A big tension in the Christian life is what theologians call Paul's "now, but not yet" paradox of Christ's promises fulfilled in us now, but yet not completely (it will be culminated in the future). It is the same in that we have eternal life now, but ultimately it is bestowed at the last day. It is a bringing of eschatological realities into the present (into the now) through the Spirit. There are amazing paradoxes of truth in the Scripture, but I will try to maintain a reverent balance, as the Scripture says, "It is good that you grasp one thing and also not let go of the other; for the one who fears God comes forth with both of them." (Ecclesiastes 7:18).

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[faithtransforms]

Well..this is what I am hoping to resolve by this thread..
I see the indwelling Spirit and the baptism.. different experiences...

This is admittedly a tough subject for me to understand, but from my own perspective, experience,and study thus far I have come to believe that when a person is saved they are Baptized into and by the Holy Spirit, which is also the Baptism into the Body (1 Corinthians 12:13) with the rest of the believers who have received the Spirit as a guarantee (downpayment/dowry; Greek: arrabon). I came to this understanding after studying what the power (Greek: dunamis) from on high (Acts 1:8) that was promised to the disciples was, and I searched every instance of the word dunamis in the New Testament and came to the inescapable (and important) conclusion that every Christian is given this power to live the Christian life by the enabling of the Holy Spirit. Upon that I summarily rejoiced at the revelation of that! This word study came after some major soul searching I did after a discussion with a Pentecostal friend of mine who believed in a "secondary conferrance of grace" by which a Christian receives the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" as a secondary experience later, and also that not every Christian experiences it.

I disagreed from the outset with him, but my sensitive conscience and tender heart would not allow intellectual pride or my own beliefs to push off carefully considering something that was so crucial to the Christian life and not seek out the truth of the matter. And in disturbed prayers and tears that night I prayed for God to reveal if I really had been Baptized in the Spirit or not, and if not why I had not received it(?). Because why would I not, at all costs, seek to reach a point where the fullness of the Spirit dwelt in me so that I could walk with greatest intimacy and communion with God if I was infact lacking the Baptism of the Spirit? That weekend led me on the search on that word dunamis (power), and culminated in the most amazing and life changing message that Sunday from a guest pastor (John Bevere) on sanctification and the power of the Spirit I had ever heard (I've never been the same since - no doubt divinely orchestrated).

I became so overcome by the conviction and assurance of the Holy Spirit in my life that at Church on Sunday I laid bent forehead to my knees only being able to barely audibly express an nearly inexpressable "Thank you" to God. That was when I realized I had indeed been Baptized in the Spirit and that it was only a matter of believing and surrender to God to unlock that power in my life. I believe the Baptism was always there from the moment of salvation but that it was the Filling of the Holy Spirit (as on that night) which brought it to the foreground in my life. I did not speak in tongues or any such other superficial "requirement" for demonstrating true Baptism in the Spirit: I simply was filled with the awe, wonder, and gratitude of having been revealed the power of God in me to live the Christian life that seemed so impossible to live before. It was the filling of the Spirit in me, and a filling which is to occur constantly and over and over in the Christian life (as happened many times in Acts). But the Baptism of the Spirit only occurs once, and I believe that to be at salvation when you believe.

That is my understanding of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. And you can also read the paper I have written about the Purpose of Baptism which explains my understanding of this matter more in depth (and Scripturally) if you wish.

God Bless,

~Josh

I love your posts, you have such a balanced perspective and you are brave enough to seek understanding and truth even if it goes against your theology. You are blessed. I agree, we are baptized into the Spirit at the new birth. I am now calling the second act of grace the infilling, as you are. The night I received the infilling, I did not speak with tongues either. I did about 2 days later when someone prayed for me, but I vividly remember the infilling and did not speak with tongues at that time. And I have come to believe that you do not have to speak in tongues to receive the infilling.

You are so blessed to have had John Bevere at your church! What a wonderful man of God!

 

[awaken]

Sure I'll take a crack at explaining that. You picked a good one. :D ;) Yes, this is where - as I said - there is some uncertainty in the order of events between salvation and the reception of the Spirit. It is clear that they believed unto salvation but without the Spirit can they be said to have been regenerated by the Spirit? I practically regard regeneration and salvation to be the same thing for us Christians today (it happens instantly upon belief - as with Cornelius), because of the description in Paul's epistles, yet I would say that these Samaritans were in the same situation the disciples were in during Jesus ministry before receiving the Holy Spirit. They truly believed, yet apart from the indwelling of the Spirit for the short term (with the inevitability of the promise before them though). How exactly the Old Testament "circumcision of the heart" is different than "regeneration in the Spirit" would be difficult for me to say or articulate - but the indwelling of the Spirit under the new covenant as a down-payment was definitely something new (as predicted in Jeremiah 31). The faith which all saints had prior to and up until Christ's death and resurrection was indeed a valid faith, but Christ inaugurated the new era of living out our faith through walking in the Spirit, by which the Spirit was poured out freely on all believers.


~Josh

Another one to look at ...
"While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied." (Acts 19:1-6)

This passage says that the Holy Spirit "came on" these disciples. Notice that this is the same wording which is used to describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit as Acts 2;8;10. It seems like we are given several different experiences..some believe and filled/baptized at the same time...some believe and later are baptized/filled.

Another question...when do you believe Paul was saved..and when was he filled with the Holy Spirit?

 

[Mysteryman]

Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes when one believes. This might take ministering , or laying on of hands.

But being saved ( for a Christian ) is done by God from before the foundation of the world. God places us in the body of Christ where it pleases him < When ? Answser: From before the foundation of the world. ( Saved by grace )

Those whom God has chosen from before the foundation of the world. Because he predestinated them, they then receive Christ in them upon conception in their mothers womb. Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes later, when one believes. The first thing one does after being batpized with the Holy Spirit is to speak in tongues.

Once you are baptized with the Holy Spirit, then and only then does God work in you to do his good will and pleasure.

There are two usages of the phrase - "dwells in you"

The first - is in Romans 8:9 - "If so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you" < Context right within the verse tells us that the Spirit of God is - > The Spirit of Christ. The word "of" in the phrase "The Spirit of God" should be the word "from" and should read like this > "The Spirit from God"

Again , context is important by reading the next few verses. And in verse 11 it stated at the end of the verse - "by his Spirit that dwelleth in you". This verse is talking about you as a Christian, being raised from the dead in the future. The beginning of the verse says this --- "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you" . Notice the pronoun "him". This pronoun should be the word "God" --- This is because Jesus did not raise himself from the dead. God his Father raised him from the dead. And the scriptures confirm this. Romans 10:9 and Eph. 1:20 and Galatians 1:1

Also in Ephesians 3:17 - "That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith ----- verse 19 - "And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge ------ verse 20 - "According to the power that worketh in us". < This power is "exousia" power . Power of authority or privileged power. This is because a Son of God has the power of authority as a Son of God.

Now the next usage of the phrase - "dwells in you" is dealing with the "dunamis" power received on the day of pentecost. Which is not in you, but upon you. This power also is used in that God dwells in you to do his good will and pleasure - Acts 7:48 - "How beit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands ; as sayeth the prophet." -- James 4:5 - "dwelleth in us". Philippians 2:13 - "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure"

Two different kinds of power. 1. Power - "exousia" < sonship authority, which is in you = Christ in you. 2. Power - "dunamis" < baptism of the Holy Spirit upon us, which worketh in you , both to will and to do of his good pleasure = operate the nine manifestations of the Spirit.

Bless - MM

 

[awaken]

Sure I'll take a crack at explaining that. You picked a good one. :D ;) Yes, this is where - as I said - there is some uncertainty in the order of events between salvation and the reception of the Spirit. It is clear that they believed unto salvation but without the Spirit can they be said to have been regenerated by the Spirit? I practically regard regeneration and salvation to be the same thing for us Christians today (it happens instantly upon belief - as with Cornelius), because of the description in Paul's epistles, yet I would say that these Samaritans were in the same situation the disciples were in during Jesus ministry before receiving the Holy Spirit. They truly believed, yet apart from the indwelling of the Spirit for the short term (with the inevitability of the promise before them though). How exactly the Old Testament "circumcision of the heart" is different than "regeneration in the Spirit" would be difficult for me to say or articulate - but the indwelling of the Spirit under the new covenant as a down-payment was definitely something new (as predicted in Jeremiah 31). The faith which all saints had prior to and up until Christ's death and resurrection was indeed a valid faith, but Christ inaugurated the new era of living out our faith through walking in the Spirit, by which the Spirit was poured out freely on all believers.


~Josh

Another one to look at ...
"While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied." (Acts 19:1-6)

This passage says that the Holy Spirit "came on" these disciples. Notice that this is the same wording which is used to describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit as Acts 2;8;10. It seems like we are given several different experiences..some believe and filled/baptized at the same time...some believe and later are baptized/filled.

Another question...when do you believe Paul was saved..and when was he filled with the Holy Spirit?

I read your article...so you do not have to answer this..I know where you stand now. I enjoyed your article very much. I am going to do some more studing on this...it gave me a lot to think about..

 

[awaken]

Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes when one believes. This might take ministering , or laying on of hands.

But being saved ( for a Christian ) is done by God from before the foundation of the world. God places us in the body of Christ where it pleases him < When ? Answser: From before the foundation of the world. ( Saved by grace )

Those whom God has chosen from before the foundation of the world. Because he predestinated them, they then receive Christ in them upon conception in their mothers womb. Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes later, when one believes. The first thing one does after being batpized with the Holy Spirit is to speak in tongues.

Once you are baptized with the Holy Spirit, then and only then does God work in you to do his good will and pleasure.

There are two usages of the phrase - "dwells in you"

The first - is in Romans 8:9 - "If so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you" < Context right within the verse tells us that the Spirit of God is - > The Spirit of Christ. The word "of" in the phrase "The Spirit of God" should be the word "from" and should read like this > "The Spirit from God"

Again , context is important by reading the next few verses. And in verse 11 it stated at the end of the verse - "by his Spirit that dwelleth in you". This verse is talking about you as a Christian, being raised from the dead in the future. The beginning of the verse says this --- "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you" . Notice the pronoun "him". This pronoun should be the word "God" --- This is because Jesus did not raise himself from the dead. God his Father raised him from the dead. And the scriptures confirm this. Romans 10:9 and Eph. 1:20 and Galatians 1:1

Also in Ephesians 3:17 - "That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith ----- verse 19 - "And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge ------ verse 20 - "According to the power that worketh in us". < This power is "exousia" power . Power of authority or privileged power. This is because a Son of God has the power of authority as a Son of God.

Now the next usage of the phrase - "dwells in you" is dealing with the "dunamis" power received on the day of pentecost. Which is not in you, but upon you. This power also is used in that God dwells in you to do his good will and pleasure - Acts 7:48 - "How beit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands ; as sayeth the prophet." -- James 4:5 - "dwelleth in us". Philippians 2:13 - "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure"

Two different kinds of power. 1. Power - "exousia" < sonship authority, which is in you = Christ in you. 2. Power - "dunamis" < baptism of the Holy Spirit upon us, which worketh in you , both to will and to do of his good pleasure = operate the nine manifestations of the Spirit.

Bless - MM

Ok...I am looking into this more...thanks for your reply's..

 

[faithtransforms]

"It is good that you grasp one thing and also not let go of the other; for the one who fears God comes forth with both of them." (Ecclesiastes 7:18).

LOVE that scripture, thanks!

 

[awaken]

Wanted to thank you guys for your in put..I have a lot to pray about and study..

..I thought I had it figured out...but I do not. I know I believed in Jesus as a child and there was fruit along the journey..but it was later that I understood by reading the word and I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Because it was then that the power was manifested in my life. So when did I become a child of God?... Before the foundation..at my confession to him and repentence (sounds like john's baptism!)...or when I accepted the gift of the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues??

I have always seen these two as two different experiences..I have always known about God and Jesus..I believed in the work of the cross and knew I was sinner..I confessed and repented before Him..I was baptized in water (because I was instructed to..not really understanding)..much later now..I am realizing I still have so much of man's teaching in me..it can be so confusing! I need to pray more and study this out more!

Thank you for you patience with me..and please pray for me to clear this confusion up!

I am not confused on the fact that I am a child of God...I have been baptized by the Holy Spirit..I know He lives in me and His power is manifested in my life. It is just wrapping this little mind around the order of it all..

 

[francisdesales]

Wanted to thank you guys for your in put..I have a lot to pray about and study..

..I thought I had it figured out...but I do not. I know I believed in Jesus as a child and there was fruit along the journey..but it was later that I understood by reading the word and I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Why do you think that you did NOT receive the baptism of the Spirit as a child? You admit that you bore fruit and believed in Jesus. Did you obey the Commandments? THAT is the evidence Scriptures give us for the abiding presence of the Spirit of God, not necessarily miraculous gifts. The Lord plants seeds, and they do not necessarily bud immediately.

Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. Acts 5:31-32

One John has a number of such citations, I'll just post one:

And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 1 John 3:24

When you were baptized with water in the name of the Trinity, you were Spirit-baptized. Perhaps as a seed - as it seems apparent in you - which begins to germinate and blossom slowly. This fruit does NOT have to be miraculous workings. We KNOW we have the invisible Spirit within us when we are obeying God's commandments. That is the evidence of His presence. You were buried with Christ and enabled to have a new life because of your baptism in water and in the name of the Trinity.

Thus, rather than looking to wonderous acts, look to what God has given you - obedience to Him in love. Upon being baptized, you became a child of God, an heir of eternal life. Do not become overly concerned with seeing "proof" in the form of tongues or other such things. Look to Scriptures and you will discern that you were indeed a child of God - and you have the evidence already of when that took place.

Regards

 

[awaken]

God works in ways that still blows me away..He is awesome!

After the confusion last night...and praying...and posting this morning. My son is homeschooled and his first DVD is Bible...he calls me in there and pauses the dvd and ask me this question.."Mom, how were the people before Jesus came saved?" Without thinking..I said by FAITH..just like we are today. They looked toward the cross and believed in Jesus...We look back and believe...Both by faith. I also added because of there faith they obeyed his commands etc.. Just like we do! We are not his child because we do his commandments...we obey because we are his child.

It is about FAITH..not WORKS. The OT saints did not have the baptism of the Holy Spirit..that came on the day of Pentecost. We are not under the law and rituals of the OT..But our life is still a faith walk! Our obedience is because of our faith..

Still a long way to go...but this I am confidient of! It is a faith walk from beginning until the end! We (Old and New Testament saints) come to the Lord the same way! And this is the start of our journey with God. God dwelt in the tabernacle and tents then..he dwells in us now.

 

[cyberjosh]

God works in ways that still blows me away..He is awesome!

After the confusion last night...and praying...and posting this morning. My son is homeschooled and his first DVD is Bible...he calls me in there and pauses the dvd and ask me this question.."Mom, how were the people before Jesus came saved?" Without thinking..I said by FAITH..just like we are today. They looked toward the cross and believed in Jesus...We look back and believe...Both by faith. I also added because of there faith they obeyed his commands etc.. Just like we do! We are not his child because we do his commandments...we obey because we are his child.

It is about FAITH..not WORKS. The OT saints did not have the baptism of the Holy Spirit..that came on the day of Pentecost. We are not under the law and rituals of the OT..But our life is still a faith walk! Our obedience is because of our faith..

Still a long way to go...but this I am confidient of! It is a faith walk from beginning until the end! We (Old and New Testament saints) come to the Lord the same way! And this is the start of our journey with God. God dwelt in the tabernacle and tents then..he dwells in us now.

Amen to that! By George, I think you've got it. :yes

 

[awaken]

God works in ways that still blows me away..He is awesome!

After the confusion last night...and praying...and posting this morning. My son is homeschooled and his first DVD is Bible...he calls me in there and pauses the dvd and ask me this question.."Mom, how were the people before Jesus came saved?" Without thinking..I said by FAITH..just like we are today. They looked toward the cross and believed in Jesus...We look back and believe...Both by faith. I also added because of there faith they obeyed his commands etc.. Just like we do! We are not his child because we do his commandments...we obey because we are his child.

It is about FAITH..not WORKS. The OT saints did not have the baptism of the Holy Spirit..that came on the day of Pentecost. We are not under the law and rituals of the OT..But our life is still a faith walk! Our obedience is because of our faith..

Still a long way to go...but this I am confidient of! It is a faith walk from beginning until the end! We (Old and New Testament saints) come to the Lord the same way! And this is the start of our journey with God. God dwelt in the tabernacle and tents then..he dwells in us now.

Amen to that! By George, I think you've got it. :yes

Still so much of the puzzle to put together...but God is patient with his children...your article helped a lot.. thanks for sharing~

I ask my son later...why did you ask me that question?..was there something on the dvd about it?..He said "NO"...it just come up. I believe it was God showing me that the truth is in me...once the confusion is prayed away...we can see! We serve an awesome God!

I do still believe that with the baptism..there will be manifestations. But as far as being a child of God..it is all about faith in the seed of God!

Even Jesus was annointed/ empowered by the Spirit...He was already born of God...So there is so much more about the baptism for me to learn...