Indwelling Holy Spirit/ Baptism Holy Spirit

[awaken]

It seems that most Christian denominations recognize that when a person receives salvation through faith in Jesus, at that moment the Holy Spirit automatically comes to dwell in the person's heart.

In Old Testament times, God promised that He would someday make a new covenant with the Jews, and this new covenant would involve the forgiveness of sins (Jeremiah 31:31-34). Jesus instituted the New Covenant with His blood which He shed on the cross ( Luke 22:14-20), and passages such as Romans 15:27, Ephesians 2:11-19, and 3:4-6 tell us that Gentiles (i.e. non-Jews) can share in the blessing of salvation through faith in Jesus. This is important because it means that salvation and the indwelling Holy Spirit are available to everyone (both Jews and Gentiles).

When we are forgiven of our sins under the New Covenant, God sprinkles "clean water" on us (referring to the "living water" of the Holy Spirit) and cleanses us from all impurities (Ezekiel 36:25-27). We are also told that God will put His Spirit in us and move us to obey Him (Ezekiel 36:25-27). This is the indwelling Holy Spirit, which is only given to those who have received salvation through faith in Jesus.

The Holy Spirit comes to dwell in our hearts when we believe the Gospel of our salvation. There is no indication that the Holy Spirit might not come into our hearts at the moment of salvation, and there is no indication that the Holy Spirit might come into our hearts at any time other than the moment of salvation, and there is no indication that we need to do anything other than believe in Jesus in order to receive the Holy Spirit. This is why Christian denominations tend to say that we automatically receive the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment when we receive salvation.

What Are We Told to Look For As Evidence that a Person Has Received Salvation?
When did the Old Testament Saints recieve the indwelling Holy Spirit?

 

[faithtransforms]

It seems that most Christian denominations recognize that when a person receives salvation through faith in Jesus, at that moment the Holy Spirit automatically comes to dwell in the person's heart.

In Old Testament times, God promised that He would someday make a new covenant with the Jews, and this new covenant would involve the forgiveness of sins (Jeremiah 31:31-34). Jesus instituted the New Covenant with His blood which He shed on the cross ( Luke 22:14-20), and passages such as Romans 15:27, Ephesians 2:11-19, and 3:4-6 tell us that Gentiles (i.e. non-Jews) can share in the blessing of salvation through faith in Jesus. This is important because it means that salvation and the indwelling Holy Spirit are available to everyone (both Jews and Gentiles).

When we are forgiven of our sins under the New Covenant, God sprinkles "clean water" on us (referring to the "living water" of the Holy Spirit) and cleanses us from all impurities (Ezekiel 36:25-27). We are also told that God will put His Spirit in us and move us to obey Him (Ezekiel 36:25-27). This is the indwelling Holy Spirit, which is only given to those who have received salvation through faith in Jesus.

The Holy Spirit comes to dwell in our hearts when we believe the Gospel of our salvation. There is no indication that the Holy Spirit might not come into our hearts at the moment of salvation, and there is no indication that the Holy Spirit might come into our hearts at any time other than the moment of salvation, and there is no indication that we need to do anything other than believe in Jesus in order to receive the Holy Spirit. This is why Christian denominations tend to say that we automatically receive the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment when we receive salvation.

What Are We Told to Look For As Evidence that a Person Has Received Salvation?
When did the Old Testament Saints recieve the indwelling Holy Spirit?

The only outward evidence of a person receiving salvation is a changed life. The OT saints had the Spirit of God "ON THEM", not "IN" them.

In Acts, it talks about how surprised Paul was when he saw that the Holy Spirit had fallen on the Gentiles. The Gentiles spoke with other tongues, that's how he knew they had received the IN-FILLING of the Holy Ghost.

 

[awaken]

What Are We Told to Look For As Evidence that a Person Has Received Salvation?
When did the Old Testament Saints recieve the indwelling Holy Spirit?

The only outward evidence of a person receiving salvation is a changed life. The OT saints had the Spirit of God "ON THEM", not "IN" them.

In Acts, it talks about how surprised Paul was when he saw that the Holy Spirit had fallen on the Gentiles. The Gentiles spoke with other tongues, that's how he knew they had received the IN-FILLING of the Holy Ghost.

The Bible never tells us that we should look for supernatural manifestations as evidence that a person is saved.
We can recognize Jesus' true disciples by their "fruit." This is described as being obedience to God's commands, acknowledging that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who has come in the flesh, and displaying the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) by loving each other with actions and in truth. These are the things that we are told to look for as evidence that a person has received salvation. The Bible never tells us to look for supernatural manifestations as evidence of anyone's salvation.

Most Christian denominations believe that the indwelling Holy Spirit is automatically received by a person at the moment of salvation. But is this the same thing as the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit?

 

[duval]

Acts 2:38 clearly tells how and when one receives the Holy Spirit.

God bless

 

[awaken]

Acts 2:38 clearly tells how and when one receives the Holy Spirit.

God bless

Jesus received the promise of the Holy Ghost...he shed it abroad..which ye now SEE and HEAR..Acts 2:33...What were they seeing and hearing? Was this the baptism or indwelling? Did they see fruits..or did they see speaking in tongues?

 

[awaken]

There are five events that describe the Baptism in the New Testament..
Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4)
At the House of Cornelius the Gentile (Acts 10:44-45)
The New Christians in Samaria (Acts 8:12-17)
The Disciples at Ephesus (Acts 19:1-6)
Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:17-18)
I do not see any other scriptures in of Christians receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit, so are these the only examples that God has given us in order to teach us?

Notice the terms which are used in the above scriptures to describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit:

"when the Holy Spirit comes on you"
"All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit"
"the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message"
"the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles"
"They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have"
"the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning"
"God gave them the same gift as he gave us"
"and be filled with the Holy Spirit"
In Acts 8..says that the Holy Spirit had not yet "come upon" any of the Samaritans.

So when were the disciples saved?

 

[faithtransforms]

There are five events that describe the Baptism in the New Testament..
Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4)
At the House of Cornelius the Gentile (Acts 10:44-45)
The New Christians in Samaria (Acts 8:12-17)
The Disciples at Ephesus (Acts 19:1-6)
Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:17-18)
I do not see any other scriptures in of Christians receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit, so are these the only examples that God has given us in order to teach us?

Notice the terms which are used in the above scriptures to describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit:

"when the Holy Spirit comes on you"
"All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit"
"the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message"
"the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles"
"They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have"
"the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning"
"God gave them the same gift as he gave us"
"and be filled with the Holy Spirit"
In Acts 8..says that the Holy Spirit had not yet "come upon" any of the Samaritans.

So when were the disciples saved?

They were saved when they believed (John 3:16). It just so happens that there is also an experience which is the infilling of the Holy Spirit (I used to call it Baptist, but I now think it is best to call in an infilling), which is when they spoke with tongues and rec'd "power from on high" to operate in the sprirtual gifts.

 

[awaken]

So when were the disciples saved?

They were saved when they believed (John 3:16). It just so happens that there is also an experience which is the infilling of the Holy Spirit (I used to call it Baptist, but I now think it is best to call in an infilling), which is when they spoke with tongues and rec'd "power from on high" to operate in the sprirtual gifts.

On the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit was poured out on the disciples in a great demonstration of supernatural power (Acts 2:1-4). There was the sound of a violent wind, visible tongues of fire, speaking in tongues, and powerful evangelism which resulted in roughly 3000 people being saved that day (Acts 2:41) and many more being saved or healed after that (Acts 2:43).

However, there was an earlier event which needs to be examined, because it has a significant impact on the study of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. If you recall, before Pentecost Jesus told the disciples that in a few days they would be "baptized" with the Holy Spirit:

""For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. ... you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight." (Acts 1:5, 8-9)

Notice that immediately before Jesus ascended to heaven, He told the disciples that they will be baptized with the Holy Spirit in a few days. Now take a look at what Jesus said to the disciples on Resurrection Sunday (which was forty days earlier, according to Acts 1:3):

"On the evening of that first day of the week [Resurrection Sunday], when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord. Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit."" (John 20:19-22)

Notice that the disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day that Jesus was resurrected, which was almost a month and a half before they were filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost!

Why did the disciples have two separate experiences of the Holy Spirit like that?

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote awaken : "" And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit."" (John 20:19-22)

Notice that the disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day that Jesus was resurrected, which was almost a month and a half before they were filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost! "


Hi awaken

No, they did not receive the Holy Spirit back in John 20:19 - 22. IT was a facsimile !

It was a preparation for the day of pentecost.

 

[awaken]

Quote awaken : "" And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit."" (John 20:19-22)

Notice that the disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day that Jesus was resurrected, which was almost a month and a half before they were filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost! "


Hi awaken

No, they did not receive the Holy Spirit back in John 20:19 - 22. IT was a facsimile !

It was a preparation for the day of pentecost.

So do you believe that salvation and the baptism is the same experience?

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote awaken : "" And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit."" (John 20:19-22)

Notice that the disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day that Jesus was resurrected, which was almost a month and a half before they were filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost! "


Hi awaken

No, they did not receive the Holy Spirit back in John 20:19 - 22. IT was a facsimile !

It was a preparation for the day of pentecost.

So do you believe that salvation and the baptism is the same experience?

Hi awaken

No !

Christians were baptized into Christ's death, when he died we died with him. Being baptized with the Holy Spirit is different, in that, you believe to receive into manifestation. Salvation into Christ was God's buisness. We believe we are saved, because God through predestination , we were saved < past tense.

 

[daynayee]

So do you believe that salvation and the baptism is the same experience?[/quote]


I think that Salvation and the baptism are two very different things. All of us already have God's spirit inside of us. Because in Genesis when God was creating Adam it says that he breathed on Him. And the original hebrew translation used the word "Ruach" [im probably spelling that wrong though. haha.] and that word has two meanings. One of them is breath. And the other is Spirit. So not only has God breathing life into him, but also breathing his spirit into him. We are all sons and daughters of Adam, therefore, we have it already too. But the Holy Spirit is often referred to in the New Testament as "The Advocate" and the word advocate means, "A person who pleads for, on behalf of another; intercessor." So this leads me to believe that when we were created with God's breath and spirit inside of us it's something different than the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Yes, it's all from the same God, and part of the same trinity. But, they serve two different purposes. One was to give us life. And the other was to communicate to us directly from the Father, the Holy Spirit brings us knowledge, wisdom, discernment, prophecy, speaking in tongues, adn more.
this is all just my opinion.
i'm always up for debate. Not for arguments sake, but because i like hearing other's opinions and having to stand for my own.

~Daynayee

 

[awaken]

Quote awaken : "" And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit."" (John 20:19-22)

Notice that the disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day that Jesus was resurrected, which was almost a month and a half before they were filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost! "


Hi awaken

No, they did not receive the Holy Spirit back in John 20:19 - 22. IT was a facsimile !

It was a preparation for the day of pentecost.

So do you believe that salvation and the baptism is the same experience?

Hi awaken

No !

Christians were baptized into Christ's death, when he died we died with him. Being baptized with the Holy Spirit is different, in that, you believe to receive into manifestation. Salvation into Christ was God's buisness. We believe we are saved, because God through predestination , we were saved < past tense.

I believe we were saved before the foundation of the world..We accept this different times in our lives. It is when we accept this..our relationship begins.

I was not speaking of water baptism...I am talking about Spirit baptism.

So when Christ said receive in John...the disciples did not receive? Why?

 

[awaken]

I think that Salvation and the baptism are two very different things. All of us already have God's spirit inside of us. Because in Genesis when God was creating Adam it says that he breathed on Him. And the original hebrew translation used the word "Ruach" [im probably spelling that wrong though. haha.] and that word has two meanings. One of them is breath. And the other is Spirit. So not only has God breathing life into him, but also breathing his spirit into him. We are all sons and daughters of Adam, therefore, we have it already too. But the Holy Spirit is often referred to in the New Testament as "The Advocate" and the word advocate means, "A person who pleads for, on behalf of another; intercessor." So this leads me to believe that when we were created with God's breath and spirit inside of us it's something different than the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Yes, it's all from the same God, and part of the same trinity. But, they serve two different purposes. One was to give us life. And the other was to communicate to us directly from the Father, the Holy Spirit brings us knowledge, wisdom, discernment, prophecy, speaking in tongues, adn more.
this is all just my opinion.
i'm always up for debate. Not for arguments sake, but because i like hearing other's opinions and having to stand for my own.

~Daynayee

Interesting opinion...
I am still learning about the difference in the spirit breathed in man at the garden..and the spirit that indwells us now. So are you saying that Adam had the indwelling Spirit at creation..and he lost it?

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote awaken : " .I am talking about Spirit baptism.

So when Christ said receive in John...the disciples did not receive? Why?"


Hi awaken

I thought I answered this. It was a preparation for the day of pentecost. Sort of like a practice , before the big day.

 

[awaken]

Quote awaken : " .I am talking about Spirit baptism.

So when Christ said receive in John...the disciples did not receive? Why?"


Hi awaken

I thought I answered this. It was a preparation for the day of pentecost. Sort of like a practice , before the big day.

I quess what I should of ask..is how you come to the conclusion that it was just practice?

 

[Mysteryman]

Because of predestination, upon our conception in our mothers womb. We received the Spirit of Christ in us, which is the Spirit of his Son. < This spirit, is also called the spirit of truth. Which will remain with us forever.

 

[daynayee]

I think that Salvation and the baptism are two very different things. All of us already have God's spirit inside of us. Because in Genesis when God was creating Adam it says that he breathed on Him. And the original hebrew translation used the word "Ruach" [im probably spelling that wrong though. haha.] and that word has two meanings. One of them is breath. And the other is Spirit. So not only has God breathing life into him, but also breathing his spirit into him. We are all sons and daughters of Adam, therefore, we have it already too. But the Holy Spirit is often referred to in the New Testament as "The Advocate" and the word advocate means, "A person who pleads for, on behalf of another; intercessor." So this leads me to believe that when we were created with God's breath and spirit inside of us it's something different than the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Yes, it's all from the same God, and part of the same trinity. But, they serve two different purposes. One was to give us life. And the other was to communicate to us directly from the Father, the Holy Spirit brings us knowledge, wisdom, discernment, prophecy, speaking in tongues, adn more.
this is all just my opinion.
i'm always up for debate. Not for arguments sake, but because i like hearing other's opinions and having to stand for my own.

~Daynayee

Interesting opinion...
I am still learning about the difference in the spirit breathed in man at the garden..and the spirit that indwells us now. So are you saying that Adam had the indwelling Spirit at creation..and he lost it?

Define what you're meaning by "Indwelling Spirit"??

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote awaken : " .I am talking about Spirit baptism.

So when Christ said receive in John...the disciples did not receive? Why?"


Hi awaken

I thought I answered this. It was a preparation for the day of pentecost. Sort of like a practice , before the big day.

I quess what I should of ask..is how you come to the conclusion that it was just practice?

Hi awaken

If you read all of the gospels where Jesus taught his disciples. You will notice that everything he taught them was in preparation for the day of pentecost as well as after the day of pentecost. Which is why he told them that he would not leave them comfortless. That he would send the comforter in his name = Christ in them. And that the comforter would teach them and remind them of all the things he said and taught them while here on earth. He even gave them power to go out and heal. As practice. And they found out that there were circumstances as to why or why not someone was healed. And after just a short practice sessions, this power was taken away from them, until after the day of pentecost.

 

[awaken]

Quote awaken : " .I am talking about Spirit baptism.

So when Christ said receive in John...the disciples did not receive? Why?"


Hi awaken

I thought I answered this. It was a preparation for the day of pentecost. Sort of like a practice , before the big day.

I quess what I should of ask..is how you come to the conclusion that it was just practice?

Hi awaken

If you read all of the gospels where Jesus taught his disciples. You will notice that everything he taught them was in preparation for the day of pentecost as well as after the day of pentecost. Which is why he told them that he would not leave them comfortless. That he would send the comforter in his name = Christ in them. And that the comforter would teach them and remind them of all the things he said and taught them while here on earth. He even gave them power to go out and heal. As practice. And they found out that there were circumstances as to why or why not someone was healed. And after just a short practice sessions, this power was taken away from them, until after the day of pentecost.

Where does it say it was taken away from them for a short time?

Sorry for the questions..you are throwing things out there that I have never pondered on..haha. IT is ok..I like it when people get me to thinking!