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Infallible scripture?

  • Thread starter Thread starter thessalonian
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Re: How do you know

AVBunyan said:
Merry Menagerie said:
1. The Word of God, however, is Jesus Christ - he is not a book he is a spirit and he resides in me :)
2.... because of all the errors ;)

1. You hide behind the spiritually-sounding phrase - "I believe Jesus is the word" - Ok, we know this but how do you know what Jesus said if you do not believe there is an infallible Bible today? What is your final authority? What do you judge things by? How do you know it is right or not?

The Holy Spirit.

[quote:526e9]2. Who taught you there were errors in a King James Bible? The Lord or the devil?

Nothing can be translated 100% perfectly.

You folks are amusing with all your error-filled reasoning. :roll:
[/quote:526e9]

Ok I'm glad I'm able to amuse you.
 
PotLuck said:
Which part of the King James bible is falliable or incorrectly translated that impacts the message being said?

Personally I don't believe it's anything significant. Just some small minor points that everyone argues about ;)
 
Orthodoxy said:
You need the Holy Spirit of Christ to even come close to desciphering scripture because of all the errors.

[quote:9b2f2]You cant be serious. The bible is chocked full of errors?

There are some errors in translation yes.

What part of the bible is truth?

As a whole it gets across the message that God intended, I believe, but through misinterpretation and through human error some of the minor points can be distorted.

Are only the part you can descipher (spelling) true?

It's all true, it just has some errors through man's fallability.

I never thought I would hear this but now I have. The Holy Spirit is to stupid to write an error free bible but the same holy spirit is able to guide one through the error in which the holy spirit wrote. Wow.

The Holy Spirit didn't WRITE the bible. Man did. The Holy Spirit INSPIRED the writings through man. Now tell me...do you believe that man is unable to interfere with God's inspiration? Do you believe that man is able to mess stuff up and to distort stuff - based on their own prejudices and ideals? Of course they can. That's why one must have the Holy Spirit to guide us through scripture because they are foolish unto us.

A "christian" saying the bible contains error. Even as a protestant I knew the bible was 100 % truth and my understanding had flaws. I believe every word of the bible and all the words in between the lines as an Orthodox Christian.

Well good for you. I however, believe in the fallability of mankind!

A sad day when a "christian" says the bible is full of errors. :cry:
[/quote:9b2f2]

A sad day when man distorts said bible too...to fit into their traditions and doctrines...Thank God for the Holy Spirit guidance :)
 
Merry Menagerie,

There are some errors in translation yes.

Can you name a few errors?

As a whole it gets across the message that God intended, I believe, but through misinterpretation and through human error some of the minor points can be distorted.

Those minor points would be? and who told you these minor errors exist?

It's all true, it just has some errors through man's fallability.

All is true but the errors are not, interesting, these errors that are true are.....?

The Holy Spirit didn't WRITE the bible. Man did. The Holy Spirit INSPIRED the writings through man.

Ok. So the Holy Spirit guided the hand of man in writting the scripture but was not able to keep error out of it? Am I reading you right? God in the person of the Holy Spirit failed at keeping error out of His Holy Scripture?

Can you tell me what other things the Holy Spirit failed to keep pure?

Now tell me...do you believe that man is unable to interfere with God's inspiration?

Can man screw up the plans of God? umm we are told God can make good out of our evil, so I would assume that even when we screw with His stuff He is able to keep it pure regardless of our attempts to mess Him up. So no man is quite able to try and mess God up.

That's why one must have the Holy Spirit to guide us through scripture because they are foolish unto us.

My question then to you is why does your "Holy Spirit" disagree with my "Holy Spirit" on many major points not counting the minor points?

How can we be sure the Holy Spirit guiding you is truth and not the Holy Spirit guiding the Holy Orthodox Church in which I am a member is not? or visa versa?

Do not think about me answering this question. Think of me as unsavable.

How can we be sure your Holy Spirit is the true Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit leading and guiding millions of Orthodox Christian in the Holy Orthodox Church is not the true Spirit of God?

I dont know about you but I want to be sure I have the true Spirit of God.

Apparently you do not think I do have this true spirit of God thus I am worried that I cannot be save nor have Him for we do not and probably will never have all things in common and agreement on anything concerning Jesus Christ and His Kingdom by this Holy Spirit you claim is truth.

Well good for you. I however, believe in the fallability of mankind!

An interesting answer which begs the question:

It all flesh evil and fallible?

A sad day when man distorts said bible too...to fit into their traditions and doctrines...Thank God for the Holy Spirit guidance

No comment.

Thank you for your response.

In all sincere patients and love,

Orthodoxy
 
Orthodoxy said:
Merry Menagerie,

There are some errors in translation yes.

Can you name a few errors?

No! I don't really know. That's why I trust God because I dont' really know what's in error and what isn't so I just in God's Word while reading scripture.

As a whole it gets across the message that God intended, I believe, but through misinterpretation and through human error some of the minor points can be distorted.

Those minor points would be? and who told you these minor errors exist?[/quote]

I dont' know. Who told you they didn't?

All is true but the errors are not, interesting, these errors that are true are.....?

I don't know...why don't you ask one of your catholic friends who dont' like the King James version of the bible - they might be able to tell you. Oh hang on...there's a post up there somewhere about greek mythology being mixed into translation...maybe you can find it up there.

Ok. So the Holy Spirit guided the hand of man in writting the scripture but was not able to keep error out of it? Am I reading you right? God in the person of the Holy Spirit failed at keeping error out of His Holy Scripture?

Man still has free will. God cannot mess with free will. But you do make a good point.

Can you tell me what other things the Holy Spirit failed to keep pure?

The holy Spirit doesn't fail anything - man does.

Actually don't you believe this yourself? The holy Spirit can fail to keep man pure, thus he is able to fall away thus giving man more power than the Holy Spirit? Seems we are both underestimating the Holy Spirit.

Can man screw up the plans of God? umm we are told God can make good out of our evil, so I would assume that even when we screw with His stuff He is able to keep it pure regardless of our attempts to mess Him up. So no man is quite able to try and mess God up.

Ok valid point! Can I suggest this same point with God's ability to keep his children saved?

My question then to you is why does your "Holy Spirit" disagree with my "Holy Spirit" on many major points not counting the minor points?

Because man's mind gets in the way ;)

How can we be sure the Holy Spirit guiding you is truth and not the Holy Spirit guiding the Holy Orthodox Church in which I am a member is not? or visa versa?

I guess that's why the only one to judge such things is God and he judges the intents of the heart.

Do not think about me answering this question. Think of me as unsavable.

Sorry? unsavable? I dont undestand.

How can we be sure your Holy Spirit is the true Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit leading and guiding millions of Orthodox Christian in the Holy Orthodox Church is not the true Spirit of God?

Who's 'we'? I only have to answer to God - as you do. It makes no never minds to me, if you have the Holy Spirit of God or not. Satan can deceive even the very elect.

I dont know about you but I want to be sure I have the true Spirit of God.

And I'm sure God sees this desire in you...after all, he put it there :)

Apparently you do not think I do have this true spirit of God thus I am worried that I cannot be save nor have Him for we do not and probably will never have all things in common and agreement on anything concerning Jesus Christ and His Kingdom by this Holy Spirit you claim is truth.

Well 'apparantly' some people like to assume a lot of things don't they. You're salvation is between you and God, as is mine :)

An interesting answer which begs the question:

It all flesh evil and fallible?

I believe so. I haven't seen any reason to believe otherwise.
 
Merry Menagerie,

No! I don't really know. That's why I trust God because I dont' really know what's in error and what isn't so I just in God's Word while reading scripture.

OK. An unsubstanciated claim. An opinion really, correct?

I dont' know. Who told you they didn't?

The Bible. God breathed error? Really. I cant believe God breathed out error.

I don't know...why don't you ask one of your catholic friends who dont' like the King James version of the bible - they might be able to tell you. Oh hang on...there's a post up there somewhere about greek mythology being mixed into translation...maybe you can find it up there.

Please find something to substanciate your claim or it remains your own personal understanding, Thanks.

I read the KJV. I like the Thees and thous. I am just that way but I will read other translations. Did I tell you I was a "bible believing born again evangelical christian" for 33 years? I am now a "bible believing born again Orthodox Christian". Note the "bible believing" did not change and I can read.

Man still has free will. God cannot mess with free will. But you do make a good point.

What is good about the point I made?

The holy Spirit doesn't fail anything - man does.

So the errors in the bible which you cannot pin point but are there have nothing to do with God?

Actually don't you believe this yourself? The holy Spirit can fail to man pure, thus he is able to fall away? Seems we are both underestimating the Holy Spirit.

No question a man can walk away from God and burn in His love for all eternity. I dont underestimate God at all. Fact is I dont think God gives a rats rump what I think about Him. I am required to surrender and "sell all" to follow Him, so my opinion means squat.

Ok valid point! Can I suggest this same point with God's ability to keep his children saved?

Excuse me? So now God is able to keep His Children pure? I am getting a mixed message from you. Explain the seemed contradiction in your belief please.

My question then to you is why does your "Holy Spirit" disagree with my "Holy Spirit" on many major points not counting the minor points?

Because man's mind gets in the way ;)

My brain is to stupid is that it? Something is wrong with my brain that it cannot agree with your Holy Spirit? Really? The Holy Spirit in me is to stupid to lead and guide me? Why did you answer my question in this manner?

How can we be sure the Holy Spirit guiding you is truth and not the Holy Spirit guiding the Holy Orthodox Church in which I am a member is not? or visa versa?

I guess that's why the only one to judge such things is God and he judges the intents of the heart.

Please this is a cop out. You cannot explain why my spirit does not witness to your spirit if we are both "christians"?

Do not think about me answering this question. Think of me as unsavable.

Sorry? unsavable? I dont undestand.

Think of me as a piece of lint in your bell button. Something that can be brushed aside at the flick of your wrist. Dust. An earthen vessel not worthy of respect. I am a non person, ok. Do not bring me into the next question. I dont exist. Imagine that if you will.

How can we be sure your Holy Spirit is the true Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit leading and guiding millions of Orthodox Christian in the Holy Orthodox Church is not the true Spirit of God?

Who's 'we'?

We. Anyone. Everyone. Someone. Some one your "leading to the Lord" out of the bondage of the Holy Orthodox Church.

I only have to answer to God - as you do. It makes no never minds to me, if you have the Holy Spirit of God or not. Satan can deceive even the very elect.

So you dont care if "anyone" "someone" or "everyone" has the Holy Spirit you testify about to me?

And I'm sure God sees this desire in you...after all he put it there :)

Umm, If I am a branch of the vine and cannot produce any fruit without the vine then how can anyone judge anyones "fruit" bearing capacity?

Well 'apparantly' some people like to assume a lot of things don't they. You're salvation is between you and God, as is mine :)

Do you believe God can exist in more than one paradigm?

I believe so. I haven't seen any reason to believe otherwise.

Was the "flesh and blood of Jesus Christ" evil and fallible?

In all long suffering and love,

Orthodoxy
 
OK. An unsubstanciated claim. An opinion really, correct?

Yeh pretty much.

The Bible. God breathed error? Really. I cant believe God breathed out error.

God didn't breath out error. I didn't say that. How man interpreted what he breathed - well that's debatable. What he breaths is perfect...man is the one who is imperfect ;)

Please find something to substanciate your claim or it remains your own personal understanding, Thanks.

I don't have one - tis my opinion. But your catholic friend does though, why don't you go and have a looksee ;)

I read the KJV. I like the Thees and thous. I am just that way but I will read other translations.

me too!! We have somthing in common!

Did I tell you I was a "bible believing born again evangelical christian" for 33 years? I am now a "bible believing born again Orthodox Christian". Note the "bible believing" did not change and I can read?

Ok so were you saved while you were an evangelical christian?

What is good about the point I made?

Hang on - I forgot! I'll look....

Oh yeh the Holy Spirit failing to keep what he inspired pure. That is a good point.

So the errors in the bible which you cannot pin point but are there have nothing to do with God?

No I don't think so - it's all man!

No question a man can walk away from God and burn in His love for all eternity. I dont underestimate God at all. Fact is I dont think God gives a rats rump what I think about Him. I am required to surrender and "sell all" to follow Him, so my opinion means squat.

If a man can walk away from God then the Holy Spirit fails at keeping Him pure then.

Excuse me? So now God is able to keep His Children pure? I am getting a mixed message from you. Explain the seemed contradiction in your belief please.

Simple. You made the point that God is able to keep scripture pure...correct? I said that it was a good point, but why not take what you said and apply it to God being able to keep his children?

Because man's mind gets in the way ;)

My brain is to stupid is that it? Something is wrong with my brain that it cannot agree with your Holy Spirit? Really? The Holy Spirit in me is to stupid to lead and guide me? Why did you answer my question in this manner?

Actually I didn't say anything like what you've just said. The reason why our HOly Spirits don't agree with each other is because man can get in the way. It's a simple statement. Not meant to be inflamatory in any way..it is fact. Man does have the tendancy to get in the way of what the Holy Spirit is trying to say - or don't you believe that? I do! I believe my mind gets in the way all the time and God constantly has to kick me up the butt and say 'ahem, are you listening?' Because I don't shut up for long enough to hear what the Holy Spirit is saying or i'm interpreting Him the way I want to or whatever. Now I can admit my humanous...why can't you? Are you above error?

Please this is a cop out. You cannot explain why my spirit does not witness to your spirit if we are both "christians"?

NO and I dont' have to. It's a cop out..yes and one that I'm willing to hide behind. I didn't do anything wrong by stating that only God is the judge of these things did I? I can only ever concern myself with my own salvation - I can't very well live other's lives for them.

Think of me as a piece of lint in your bell button. Something that can be brushed aside at the flick of your wrist. Dust. An earthen vessel not worthy of respect. I am a non person, ok. Do not bring me into the next question. I dont exist. Imagine that if you will.

oookay - you're lint!!! What colour are you? Are you blue? Red? Or that cacky colour...a mixture? ;)

We. Anyone. Everyone. Someone. Some one your "leading to the Lord".

Ok. Well for me, if there's any holes - it's not of God. If there's any confusion - he didn't authorise it. Is that enough? Truly, I prefer to put my faith in God's judgement.

So you dont care if "anyone" "someone" or "everyone" has the Holy Spirit you testify about to me?

I testify what God puts on my heart to testify...that way I don't have to worry myself ;) God's capable of discerning for me.

Umm, If I am a branch of the vine and cannot produce any fruit without the vine then how can anyone judge anyones "fruit" bearing capacity?

Ummm gee I don't know. Really I don't actually know what you're meaning here *looks dumb*.

Do you believe God can exist in more than one paradigm?

I believe God exists period! He is what he is and that's what he is and I love Him for it :)

Was the "flesh and blood of Jesus Christ" evil and fallible?

Would something infallible die and and be in need of glorification?

I don't really know...but I believe in Him and know he lives in me and I don't live anymore. We don't have to know all the itty bitty facts about this do we? Even 'idiots' can be saved right? By believing in Jesus? Do they have to 'understand' all aspects of the bible for them to be saved? NO I don't believe the bible says any such thing.

Hey Orthodoxy, I'm not perfect eh? Just so you know. Sometimes I get things wrong. Sometimes I stuff things up but my faith has never EVER wavered. If you could know the life I've lived...you'd see the glory of God in me that keeps me here and keeps me looking to Him for my salvation and fulfillment and righteousness - because sure as eggs...I can't get it right everytime. I need Jesus every day of my life!
 
Merry Menagerie,

OK. An unsubstanciated claim. An opinion really, correct?

Yeh pretty much.

Well at least you admit your fallible and limited to opinion from your own understanding. Very good.

The Bible. God breathed error? Really. I cant believe God breathed out error.

God didn't breath out error. I didn't say that. How man interpreted what he breathed - well that's debatable. What he breaths is perfect...man is the one who is imperfect ;)

Well then we can assume your interpretation of the Scripture is no better than anyone elses. I must also assume you include self in the "imperfection of men". However Mary Poppins was "practically perfect in every way" so I bet her interpretation would be close to truth. What do you think as an imperfect interpreter? Maybe this is why Peter said no scripture is up for personal interpretation.

Please find something to substanciate your claim or it remains your own personal understanding, Thanks.

I don't have one - tis my opinion. But your catholic friend does though, why don't you go and have a looksee ;)

I am not sure why you keep bring up a "catholic friend". Is that an attempt to goad me? Again everyone has an opinion. Why are you special? because your is unsubstanciated? I like to debate facts not peoples pridefilled opinions. Can we please debates facts and not nebulas opines? If not the conversation will end abruptly.

I read the KJV. I like the Thees and thous. I am just that way but I will read other translations.

me too!! We have somthing in common!

Glory to God.

Did I tell you I was a "bible believing born again evangelical christian" for 33 years? I am now a "bible believing born again Orthodox Christian". Note the "bible believing" did not change and I can read?

Ok so were you saved while you were an evangelical christian?

Are you impling I lost my salvation when I said "yes" to Jesus Christ in the Holy Orthodox Church? Why is my desire to raise my children in a Godly community such a threat to your providing my salvation? Who are you to judge my salvation, lady?

What is good about the point I made?

Hang on - I forgot! I'll look....

Oh yeh the Holy Spirit failing to keep what he inspired pure. That is a good point.

Ahh so do you get it? You are insisting the Holy Spirit cannot keep and perserve the faith delievered by the saints and recorded in the bible it would appear to me. Are you?

So the errors in the bible which you cannot pin point but are there have nothing to do with God?

No I don't think so - it's all man!

Interesting how an infallible bible can have errors at all. umm Makes me wonder if words mean anything these days.

No question a man can walk away from God and burn in His love for all eternity. I dont underestimate God at all. Fact is I dont think God gives a rats rump what I think about Him. I am required to surrender and "sell all" to follow Him, so my opinion means squat.

If a man can walk away from God then the Holy Spirit fails at keeping Him pure then.

Then I am saved in the Holy Orthodox Church regardless of your condemnations and insinuations to the contrary. Very Good.

Excuse me? So now God is able to keep His Children pure? I am getting a mixed message from you. Explain the seemed contradiction in your belief please.

Simple. You made the point that God is able to keep scripture pure...correct? I said that it was a good point, but why not take what you said and apply it to God being able to keep his children?

Sounds good to me Merry. If this is true then God will keep and save me regardless of my ignorance in being Orthodox Christian. Does this invalidate your low opinion of me?

Because man's mind gets in the way ;)

My brain is to stupid is that it? Something is wrong with my brain that it cannot agree with your Holy Spirit? Really? The Holy Spirit in me is to stupid to lead and guide me? Why did you answer my question in this manner?

Actually I didn't say anything like what you've just said. The reason why our HOly Spirits don't agree with each other is because man can get in the way.

Yes, I am a man. I understand your implication. Us lower than whale poo men just dont get it. Is it possible your "man" is in the way? Why is my man in the way and yours is not? Maybe if your man got out of the way we could agree, is that possible?


It's a simple statement.

Another simple opinion IMHO. But I will duly note it.


Not meant to be inflamatory in any way..it is fact. Man does have the tendancy to get in the way of what the Holy Spirit is trying to say - or don't you believe that? I do!

Apparently your man doesnt get in the way and everyone elses does so you must be right and everyone else should believe what you believe. OK.


I believe my mind gets in the way all the time and God constantly has to kick me up the butt and say 'ahem, are you listening?' Because I don't shut up for long enough to hear what the Holy Spirit is saying or i'm interpreting Him the way I want to or whatever. Now I can admit my humanous...why can't you? Are you above error?

No question that is why I obey and submit to those that rule over me in the Church as commanded by scripture. I do not like leaning on my own understanding. I did that for 33 years as a protestant. It doesnt work.

Please this is a cop out. You cannot explain why my spirit does not witness to your spirit if we are both "christians"?

NO and I dont' have to. It's a cop out..yes and one that I'm willing to hide behind. I didn't do anything wrong by stating that only God is the judge of these things did I? I can only ever concern myself with my own salvation - I can't very well live other's lives for them.

Well at least your honest in saying you dont know and your putting your head in the sand on this one but I still maintain the question is valid because God is One not many.

Think of me as a piece of lint in your bell button. Something that can be brushed aside at the flick of your wrist. Dust. An earthen vessel not worthy of respect. I am a non person, ok. Do not bring me into the next question. I dont exist. Imagine that if you will.

oookay - you're lint!!! What colour are you? Are you blue? Red? Or that cacky colour...a mixture? ;)

hahaha well dirt is brown so I guess I am a brown piece of dirt. Maybe a what is floating in the waters of New Orleans will help you get a visual. Your opinion of this "christian" brother is reaching new heights. You did say God is able to keep this poor past saved man saved in the Orthodox Church, correct? It would appear you just dont like the Orthodox way of worshipping God even though I am saved, is this the real reason you dont like me?

We. Anyone. Everyone. Someone. Some one your "leading to the Lord".

Ok. Well for me, if there's any holes - it's not of God. If there's any confusion - he didn't authorise it. Is that enough? Truly, I prefer to put my faith in God's judgement.

Then you agree something is amiss if your Holy Spirit is saying things contrary to what the Holy Spirit is saying in the Holy Orthodox Church. It is good we agree something is terrible wrong if the Holy Spirit in you disagrees with the Holy Spirit in the eternal Church of Jesus Christ.


So you dont care if "anyone" "someone" or "everyone" has the Holy Spirit you testify about to me?

I testify what God puts on my heart to testify...that way I don't have to worry myself ;) God's capable of discerning for me.

God's testimony is to preach the gospel world wide. It seems to me if you only care about you then that is violating the great commission. But as long as you make it to your seat in the Kingdom that is all that matters to me. If I get there before you I will save you a seat, no on second thought, you take mine.

Umm, If I am a branch of the vine and cannot produce any fruit without the vine then how can anyone judge anyones "fruit" bearing capacity?

Ummm gee I don't know. Really I don't actually know what you're meaning here *looks dumb*.

Do you think that your puppy dog face will work at the great judgement seat in the sky?

Do you believe God can exist in more than one paradigm?

I believe God exists period! He is what he is and that's what he is and I love Him for it :)

Well that did not answer my question but I understand your position of wanting God in your image and likeness.

Was the "flesh and blood of Jesus Christ" evil and fallible?

Would something infallible die and and be in need of glorification?

I take that as a yes. An interesting gnostic view of God and His Kingdom you holdfast to in your Christian faith. Of course He must have had evil ol' flesh because He came forth from that evil woman Mary. That only plays to common sense huh?

I don't really know...but I believe in Him and know he lives in me and I don't live anymore. We don't have to know all the itty bitty facts about this do we?

Inquiring minds what to know.

Even 'idiots' can be saved right?

I suppose if a donkey can talk, idiots can be saved. Lucky me, eh?

By believing in Jesus?

Just believe baby! Maybe God is an Oakland Raiders fan?

Do they have to 'understand' all aspects of the bible for them to be saved? NO I don't believe the bible says any such thing.

I agree even an unlearn idiot like myself who converted to the Orthodox faith can be saved. Whew.

Hey Orthodoxy, I'm not perfect eh?

I have no clue but if you are like my wife then you are practically perfect in every way. Surely you are heads over this idiot man.

Just so you know. Sometimes I get things wrong.

That darn leaning on ones own understanding can lead to that getting stuff wrong thing.

Sometimes I stuff things up but my faith has never EVER wavered. If you could know the life I've lived...you'd see the glory of God in me that keeps me here and keeps me looking to Him for my salvation and fulfillment and righteousness - because sure as eggs...I can't get it right everytime. I need Jesus every day of my life!

Your special because you over came some malidy or addiction. I am happy for you.

Well enough for now this idiot needs to get ready to enter the Church and pray God will reveal things to me as He has to you. Ever wonder why Jesus plays favorites and doesnt reveal the same thing to all people so they can agree on something concerning the Christian faith?

In all joy and self control of Jesus Christ my Lord.

Orthodoxy
 
I think the fact some supposed Christians make such a big deal out so-called errors in the Bible, which are really the result of translation, says a great deal about how the SIN of legalism has become entrenched in the Church.
 
PHIL121 said:
I think the fact some supposed Christians make such a big deal out so-called errors in the Bible, which are really the result of translation, says a great deal about how the SIN of legalism has become entrenched in the Church.

What errors?

Orthodoxy
 
PHIL121 said:
I think the fact some supposed Christians make such a big deal out so-called errors in the Bible, which are really the result of translation, says a great deal about how the SIN of legalism has become entrenched in the Church.

What errors?

Orthodoxy
 
Well at least you admit your fallible and limited to opinion from your own understanding. Very good.

Of course I can. But can you?


Well then we can assume your interpretation of the Scripture is no better than anyone elses. I must also assume you include self in the "imperfection of men".

I include everyone - that's why we need a saviour ;)

However Mary Poppins was "practically perfect in every way" so I bet her interpretation would be close to truth. What do you think as an imperfect interpreter? Maybe this is why Peter said no scripture is up for personal interpretation.

Mary poppins is a fictional character. Unless you know something that I don't know? Are you Mary Poppins?

I am not sure why you keep bring up a "catholic friend". Is that an attempt to goad me?

I'm trying to show you that even a catholic can believe in something that other catholics do not. He's entitled to his opinion, even if it differs from yours. He may be right - he may be wrong! That's why I don't put my faith in MEN ;)

Again everyone has an opinion. Why are you special? because your is unsubstanciated?

Did I say I was special? I cannot substanciate my claims because I don't know enough about it...doesn't mean it can't be substanciated - just that I CAN'T!!.

I like to debate facts not peoples pridefilled opinions. Can we please debates facts and not nebulas opines? If not the conversation will end abruptly.

Then end it! Do it! I you dont' feel like debated anything other than fact then have a good time debating with yourself - since you seem to think you're the only one with facts.

Are you impling I lost my salvation when I said "yes" to Jesus Christ in the Holy Orthodox Church? Why is my desire to raise my children in a Godly community such a threat to your providing my salvation? Who are you to judge my salvation, lady?

Actually I was merely asking you a question. Again, you've read into it more than I put there. Is that how you read your bible? I hope not. The question still stands...where you saved when you were an evangelical Christian? The answer is a simple yes or no Orthodoxy.

Ahh so do you get it? You are insisting the Holy Spirit cannot keep and perserve the faith delievered by the saints and recorded in the bible it would appear to me. Are you?

I'm coming in that direction perhaps...but only because I can't have it both ways Orthodoxy...and neither can you. I can't say that the Holy Spirit of God can preserve my salvation and keep me as His Child until the last day in one breath...then in the next breath say...Oh but the Holy Spirit can't keep scripture! I don't like hypocracy...and if I see myself doing it, I check myself. Do you?

Interesting how an infallible bible can have errors at all. umm Makes me wonder if words mean anything these days.

Would one be able to read the bible and understand it without the Holy Spirit? What about when people look up concordances and history etc to get a deeper understanding? Why do they do that? Isn't the bible good enough?

Then I am saved in the Holy Orthodox Church regardless of your condemnations and insinuations to the contrary. Very Good.

So you agree with me on that point then? One cannot lose their salvation because that means that the Holy Spirit failed?

Sounds good to me Merry. If this is true then God will keep and save me regardless of my ignorance in being Orthodox Christian. Does this invalidate your low opinion of me?

I did not have a low opinion of your status in regards to salvation Orthodoxy. You see, I don't judge you like you judge me. I've always maintained that I don't judge people as to whether they are going to heaven or hell. I give people the benefit of the doubt, most times. But the point here is that God is able to preserve his children to salvation...and it seems you are agreeing with me. I hope I'm seeing what I'm seeing and not what you want me to see.

Yes, I am a man. I understand your implication. Us lower than whale poo men just dont get it. Is it possible your "man" is in the way? Why is my man in the way and yours is not? Maybe if your man got out of the way we could agree, is that possible?

All men! What's with the paranoia? If I wanted to accuse you of something then I'll out and out do it...I'm not into pussy footing around and sugar coating. The fact is - MAN IN GENERAL gets in the way. It's mine and it's yours - but so what? Do you believe in Jesus? Great!!! So do I!!!! Yay for us! *jumps up and down* We are fellow believers then. The finer points of doctrine don't really matter if we have the fundementals of belief in tact! Yay for us...we can unite and fellowship together in Jesus name!

So lets talk about Jesus. What has he done in your life? He's wonderful isn't he? And God is so awesome! I can't get enough of him right now.....

Apparently your man doesnt get in the way and everyone elses does so you must be right and everyone else should believe what you believe. OK.

Doesn't he? Since when? Who told you that rubbish? Has my mother been talking to you? ;) Just kidding. Seriously, you really need to quit with the assumptions.

No question that is why I obey and submit to those that rule over me in the Church as commanded by scripture. I do not like leaning on my own understanding. I did that for 33 years as a protestant. It doesnt work.


What? No comment on how I just admitted that I stuff up and need kicking up the butt by God? Ooookay!

Anyway, friend, I try not to lean on my own understanding either. I also don't lean on ANY MAN'S understanding. Even those who have rule over me. The Lord is my shepherd and he's the one who will guide and teach me. I'm through with being taught by man and his understanding.

Well at least your honest in saying you dont know and your putting your head in the sand on this one but I still maintain the question is valid because God is One not many.

Yeh I put my head in the sand but I can assure you, Christ, who is abiding in me...his ears are pricked up. I've learned a long time ago to take my hands off of things I don't understand and give it over to Christ. When I did that - I was freed from bondage...LITERALLY!!!

hahaha well dirt is brown so I guess I am a brown piece of dirt. Maybe a what is floating in the waters of New Orleans will help you get a visual.

eeeeew no thanks. I much prefer visualising you as 'pink' lint - I like pink. Do you like pink? Or is pink a bit girlie for you? Ok blue then ;)

Your opinion of this "christian" brother is reaching new heights.

Is it? Or maybe it's the same as it's always been...and you just didn't see it because you were too busy doing other things.

You did say God is able to keep this poor past saved man saved in the Orthodox Church, correct? It would appear you just dont like the Orthodox way of worshipping God even though I am saved, is this the real reason you dont like me?

When did I say I didn't like you? I don't like the Orthodox way..no..but that doesn't mean I don't like you. It is possible to separate the person from their beliefs you know.

Then you agree something is amiss if your Holy Spirit is saying things contrary to what the Holy Spirit is saying in the Holy Orthodox Church. It is good we agree something is terrible wrong if the Holy Spirit in you disagrees with the Holy Spirit in the eternal Church of Jesus Christ.

But we can both agree on one thing! God is the almighty...the trinity. Christ is our saviour and we love God right? We can agree on this...there is nothing terribly wrong when we can agree and see God as the wonderful, couscellor, the might God, the prince of peace...etc etc. Right?


God's testimony is to preach the gospel world wide. It seems to me if you only care about you then that is violating the great commission.

Am I? Or am I preaching the gospel...then leaving their salvation for God to take care of and not trying to save them myself? What do you think? Do you think we should be poking our nose into God's business? Or only do what we are commisioned to do and allow God to do the rest?

But as long as you make it to your seat in the Kingdom that is all that matters to me. If I get there before you I will save you a seat, no on second thought, you take mine.

Friend, we are already seated in heavenly places - God has saved our seats and we are already there. The Kindom of God is within me.

Do you think that your puppy dog face will work at the great judgement seat in the sky?

No it won't - that's why I'm relying on Christ beautiful face :)

Well that did not answer my question but I understand your position of wanting God in your image and likeness.

Making assumptions again dear Orthodoxy? Shame on you! ;)

I take that as a yes.

Really? Even if I didn't actually say yes? Is that how you approach God? "I'll take that as a yes...God...ok?" I hope not!

An interesting gnostic view of God and His Kingdom you holdfast to in your Christian faith. Of course He must have had evil ol' flesh because He came forth from that evil woman Mary. That only plays to common sense huh?

dum de dum de dum de dum! *Looks at orthodoxy sideways and asks* Are you a mind reader? 'Tis amazing how much information you get from nothing LOL

Inquiring minds what to know.

Do they? Ok then - whatever you reckon! :)

I suppose if a donkey can talk, idiots can be saved. Lucky me, eh?

Are you a donkey? Good grief!! I've been speaking to a donkey all this time - well who would have thunk it eh? ;)

Just believe baby! Maybe God is an Oakland Raiders fan?

What's 'oakland raiders'?

I agree even an unlearn idiot like myself who converted to the Orthodox faith can be saved. Whew.

Well good...cos' we're both in the same boat then - gee Orthodoxy we agree with more than we thought ;)

I have no clue but if you are like my wife then you are practically perfect in every way. Surely you are heads over this idiot man.

No I'm not like your wife then - I'm not perfect.

That darn leaning on ones own understanding can lead to that getting stuff wrong thing.

Yeh annoying isn't it?

Your special because you over came some malidy or addiction. I am happy for you.

No, I'm an overcomer in Jesus. And it's only through Jesus was I able to overcome anything in my life.

Well enough for now this idiot needs to get ready to enter the Church and pray God will reveal things to me as He has to you. Ever wonder why Jesus plays favorites and doesnt reveal the same thing to all people so they can agree on something concerning the Christian faith?

Not favourites but he does recognise the differences in people and from whence he came. He knows how to handle certain people and he knows how to love them all...in his way. And for that I'm grateful to him because if he didn't - then I'd be dead!
 
Quote:
Just believe baby! Maybe God is an Oakland Raiders fan?

That would be cool. I am a Raiders fan also.

Mary poppins is a fictional character. Unless you know something that I don't know? Are you Mary Poppins?

dum de dum de dum de dum! *Looks at orthodoxy sideways and asks* Are you a mind reader? 'Tis amazing how much information you get from nothing LOL
OK, ok... without quoting all the stabs in your post, it ends right here.

May I remind you...

Rule 2 - No Flaming:

Rule 6 - No Trolling:

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=9219
 
who me? Umm I wasn't doing any of those. I was trying to lighten the post up a bit. Orthodoxy and I were getting aquainted. He made assumptions and I pointed them out. I also made a joke about Mary Poppins...did you see the joke about the lint too?

There was no flaming or trolling here. If I wanted to flame - I'd flame!! It I wanted to be a troll, I'd be one. I'm not into pussy footing around.

So sorry - you've been mistaken :)
 
Merry Menagerie said:
who me? Umm I wasn't doing any of those. I was trying to lighten the post up a bit. Orthodoxy and I were getting aquainted. He made assumptions and I pointed them out. I also made a joke about Mary Poppins...did you see the joke about the lint too?

There was no flaming or trolling here. If I wanted to flame - I'd flame!! It I wanted to be a troll, I'd be one. I'm not into pussy footing around.

So sorry - you've been mistaken :)
Please don't tell me I've mistaken anything. I'm one of the kings of sarcasm around here. 8-) Considering all the hostility around here lately, I am trying to avoid further complications. Orthodoxy has done well lately tempering down the tone in the posts. I commend Orthodoxy for it. I don't want to see things get out of hand anymore. I'm tired of reading all the hate PM's. 8-)

One more reminder...

Rule 5 - Respect Site authority:
The word of a moderator or administrator is final and private to the people involved. Do not challenge a moderator or administrator's authority or post publicly objecting to a moderator's act. If you feel that a moderator's actions are completely unacceptable, send the administrator a private message. Of course, the administrator's decision is final.

I can say that some here have respected this rule and I thank them for it, despite what I said above about PM's. LOL Others here have abused this rule over and over again. You may choose which camp you'd like to be a part. Free choice, man. :-D
 
Ok then - I respect your authority but I don't agree with what you accused me of because I know me :)

But I respect it just the same.
 
Look what I found Orthodoxy, I looked up the word 'engrafted' because I was trying to look for a particular scripture and it came up with this....

Note: This is the AV rendering of emphutos, Jam 1:21, an adjective derived from emphuo, "to implant;" the RV has "implanted." The metaphor is that of a seed rooting itself in the heart; cp. Mat 13:21; 15:13; 1Cr 3:6, and the kindred word sumphutos, Rom 6:5, "planted together" (sun, "with"). The AV "engrafted" would translate the word emphuteuton (from emphuteuo, "to graft"), which is not found in the NT; it uses enkentrizo in Rom. 11. Cp. ekphuo, "to cause to grow out, put forth" (leaves), Mat 24:32; Mar 13:28.

Error in translation? Then someone told me yesterday that some nouns have masculine and feminine roots and in certain scriptures the masculine and the feminine don't work because they were not translated properly. So there you go!

Granted, these are subtle differences, but I did say that the errors were small and didn't take away from the full message right?
 
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