Is believing/faith a work ?

[brightfame52]

The word “believe” in the Greek text is “pisteuo” which is a verb denoting a work. If a person could believe in Christ before they are born again by the Spirit, it would mean they have done a work and that would mean they have worked for their salvation which is totally against what the scriptures teach. Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Fastfredy0]

John 6:29 Jesus answered, “This is the work of God: that you believe [adhere to, trust in, rely on, and have faith] in the One whom He has sent.” AMP
Romans 11:6 Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace.
Romans 11:35 Who has first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?". Does one self-determine to believe and thus God must recompense him? Apparently not.

If we believe that the origin of faith is the believer and not God then we have sacrificed election in love by a personal God for a kind of determinism by an impersonal force and God is no longer to be given the ultimate credit for our salvation.
The semi-Pelagianism would portend that we need hardly do anything to earn our salvation, and that is to belittle salvation and to insult God.

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

Jhn 6:28
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jhn 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


Eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.



ERGON is the Greek for WORK(S) in both those passages

 

[Hopeful]

The word “believe” in the Greek text is “pisteuo” which is a verb denoting a work. If a person could believe in Christ before they are born again by the Spirit, it would mean they have done a work and that would mean they have worked for their salvation which is totally against what the scriptures teach. Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The only "works" frowned on by the writers of the NT are the works of the Law.

 

[brightfame52]

The only "works" frowned on by the writers of the NT are the works of the Law.

Thats false. All conditions are included.

 

[Truthfrees]

there are 2 kinds of works - things done with our human ability - things done by God's ability - lean your entire personality on God and His goodness and it will result in a work of God through you - lean on your own ability and you will feel the burden of it on your shoulders - apart from God you can do nothing successfully - lean on God for everything and enjoy HIS work in and through you

 

[JLB]

The word “believe” in the Greek text is “pisteuo” which is a verb denoting a work. If a person could believe in Christ before they are born again by the Spirit, it would mean they have done a work and that would mean they have worked for their salvation which is totally against what the scriptures teach. Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is the God given ability to do what we can not do without it.


Grace gives us the ability to believe and obey the Gospel.


Faith is what we receive from God when we hear the Gospel, and grace gives us the ability to obey what we hear.


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17


For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Ephesians 2:8


Only those who obey Jesus Christ are saved.







JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Thats false. All conditions are included.

If that is the case, we can't be saved by believing.
I just can't agree with your POV.

 

[WIP]

Is believing/faith a work? If they are then bring it on.

 

[JLB]

Thats false. All conditions are included.

Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” John 6:29

 

[JLB]

If we believe that the origin of faith is the believer and not God

Faith is a noun, and comes from God.

We receive faith from God when we hear His His word to us.

Believing is what we must do in response to hearing Him.





JLB

 

[brightfame52]

The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

See strongs # 2041:

1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
   1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
   
3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
   
   A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND
   
   The mind is :
   
   (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.
   
   Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.
   
   So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.
   
   Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20
   
   
   Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
   
   
   20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
   
   How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh
   
   So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..
   
   Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]
   
   But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.

 

[WIP]

Isn't it possible that a work is something different than the works of the law or works of righteousness? Why is it important for us to split hairs with God?

 

[Fastfredy0]

Isn't it possible that a work is something different than the works of the law or works of righteousness? Why is it important for us to split hairs with God?

It can be taken as a given that if any part of our salvation was actually based upon human works or merit, man could BOAST even if their "part" in the process was infinitesimal compared to that of God. Therefore, salvation must be totally of God. Assuming this be true and given that taking credit for what God has done is sinful ... this should not be classified as splitting hairs IMO. I grant that those that think otherwise are well intentioned and will state they are not boasting when they claim to have, with Christ's help, saved themselves.
Verses saying we have no cause to boast.
Job 41:11; 1 Corinthians 1:28-30; 1 Corinthians 4:7; Galatians 6:14; Ephesians 2:8-10

Hypothesis 1: You are the cause of your salvific faith
Premise1: You are the cause of your salvific faith
Premise2: Salvific faith is good
Conclusion: You have reason to boast (as maybe 1 person in 20 enables their eternal life)

Hypothesis 2: You are NOT the cause of your salvific faith
Premise1: God is the cause of your salvific faith
Premise2: Salvific faith is good
Conclusion: You have NO reason to boast

There is also the problem that one is not saved by works and the curse belonging to those who thinks otherwise: Galatians 5:3 Once more I solemnly affirm to every man who receives circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], that he is under obligation and required to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, if you seek to be justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] through the Law; you have fallen from grace [for you have lost your grasp on God’s unmerited favor and blessing].

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

"4 You have been severed from Christ, if you seek to be justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] through the Law; you have fallen from grace [for you have lost your grasp on God’s unmerited favor and blessing]."

So one can FALL FROM GRACE?

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

I can't remember if this board has a rule against discussing OSAS vs OSnAS - or any discussion of Arminianism vs Calvinism - one board I know has a rule against it. I would hate for that rule to knock out our "Faith is a work - vs "Faith is not a work" discussion; but I think we are on a slippery slope.

 

[Hopeful]

The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:
See strongs # 2041:

1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
   1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
   A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND
   The mind is :
   (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.
   Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.
   So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.
   Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20
   Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
   20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
   How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh
   So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..
   Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]
   
   But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.

Or, as Paul tried to make clear, the Law of Moses.

 

[Hopeful]

Isn't it possible that a work is something different than the works of the law or works of righteousness? Why is it important for us to split hairs with God?

It is important because there are some, who instead of heeding Paul's words regarding the works of the Law, have extended them to things like repentance from sin and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of past sins.
Not to mention ever resisting a temptation to commit a sin.
Or enduring till the end.

 

[Hopeful]

"4 You have been severed from Christ, if you seek to be justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] through the Law; you have fallen from grace [for you have lost your grasp on God’s unmerited favor and blessing]."

So one can FALL FROM GRACE?

Yes, according to Paul.
You posted the verse .

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

Jhn 6:26
Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Jhn 6:27
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Jhn 6:28
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jhn 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

This is the main passage of scripture equating WORK (ERGON) with BELIEF (PISTIS).
Jesus is speaking to the multitude - answering their question. He has not been crucified, risen, and glorified yet.

We come to this question of "Is Faith a Work?" with much more hindsight than the ones originally asking Jesus the question -- who never knew anything about FALLING FROM GRACE -- whether it could happen or not.
Jesus wanted those guys to LABOR FOR IMPERISHABLE MEAT!

I want a double-burger of that meat!