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Is believing/faith a work ?

Fastfredy0

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I believe God saved me because of my believing/faith.
Then thats works my friend.
Agreed. But you miss my point. It is the work of God that causes me to believe. He is working in me; He is doing the work and I am the effect of his work.

Bright's apparent logic:
Premise1: The word “believe” in the Greek text is “pisteuo” which is a verb denoting a work. (Bright's post #1)
Premise2: Bright believes in Christ for salvation
Conclusion: Bright believes he must do a WORK to be saved
Do you agree? If not, which premise is false or why is the conclusion false?
 

Edward

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If you are speaking about good works post salvation, thats scriptural as long as you keep in mind that thats works after one has been already saved. This is about works in order to get saved, if one believes they get saved because they believed, thats works.

So is Romans 10:9 true or not?

Romans 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
 

Norman

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Agreed. But you miss my point. It is the work of God that causes me to believe. He is working in me; He is doing the work and I am the effect of his work.

Bright's apparent logic:
Premise1: The word “believe” in the Greek text is “pisteuo” which is a verb denoting a work. (Bright's post #1)
Premise2: Bright believes in Christ for salvation
Conclusion: Bright believes he must do a WORK to be saved
Do you agree? If not, which premise is false or why is the conclusion false?
So you responded to the faith He gave you with works! Faith without works is dead! IMO, you have living faith!
 

Fastfredy0

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So you responded to the faith He gave you with works!
Agreed. Even my works are an effect, the Spirit being the cause. (Isaiah 26:12; Ezekiel 11:19-20; John 15:5; Romans 8:26; 1 Corinthians 4:7, Galatians 5:22-23; etc. etc). Yet, I am rewarded for what He does.

Faith without works is dead!
Agreed. A facet of faith is trusting that God's word is truth. To the degree you believe you make God's truth yours also. One always follows what one considers to be true. To the degree one disobeys, one disbelieves.

IMO, you have living faith!
I hope so. Thx.
 

brightfame52

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Is believing/faith a work ?

Again, yes it is. Its the action, function, deed of the mind, the soul, and heart. The word work ergon means:

work, labor, action, deed,

/érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose)

Phillip told the ethiopian eunuch Acts 8:37

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

So if one bases their Salvation on believing, their act, they are basing it on their works, no way around it !
 

Norman

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One day, a stranger read John 3:16 to me. I saw a sword pierce my heart and I instantly knew what He'd read to me was true. I didn't try to believe it, I didn't give God permission to do it, He just did it.
I've believed ever since, though I never got and stayed serious about it for long until I met my Father in 1994. After that, though I've stumbled a few times, our hearts have stayed together. Where would I go, I'd already found what I was looking for.
"The Lord is my strength and my power...He will never leave me!" Bible?
 

Hopeful

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This is works salvation. Salvation conditioned on the sinner.
Hmmm.
Which Law of Moses was involved?
That is the works Paul wrote were not necessary for salvation.
Circumcision, dietary prohibitions, tithing, feast keeping, Sabbaths, etc.

Our actions are demanded for salvation.
We must hear.
We must believe.
We must turn from sin.
We must get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
We must be given the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We must endure faithfully till the end.
Other things are essential to enduring too.
Like prayer and reading, study, fellowship, and evangelism.

"Say it claim it" is not a doctrine you will find in the bible.
Even "saying" and "claiming" are actions !
 

brightfame52

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Hmmm.
Which Law of Moses was involved?
That is the works Paul wrote were not necessary for salvation.
Circumcision, dietary prohibitions, tithing, feast keeping, Sabbaths, etc.

Our actions are demanded for salvation.
We must hear.
We must believe.
We must turn from sin.
We must get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
We must be given the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We must endure faithfully till the end.
Other things are essential to enduring too.
Like prayer and reading, study, fellowship, and evangelism.

"Say it claim it" is not a doctrine you will find in the bible.
Even "saying" and "claiming" are actions !
More works salvation advocated.
 

JLB

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We are derailing the thread,... but as I read 1 John 3:9, I can see that those really born of God as are as likely to commit sin, fall away, as an apple tree is to bring forth onions.
Men can reach a tipping point, where they manifest from whom they are spawned.
Men can seem faithful for years, but one sin will show whom they really serve.
That will seem like falling away.

Trees are not tempted, nor do they have the ability to choose right from wrong or good from evil.


Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:7-9


If a Christian does sin, they can confess their sin and be forgiven.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:9-10



If a Christian says they have not sinned then they are liars.





JLB
 

JLB

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Our actions are demanded for salvation.
We must hear.
We must believe.
We must turn from sin.
We must get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
We must be given the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We must endure faithfully till the end.
Other things are essential to enduring too.
Like prayer and reading, study, fellowship, and evangelism.


On these things we should all agree.


Amen.
 

Randy

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If it is it was gifted from above without cost to sinners.

All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
 

JLB

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If it is it was gifted from above without cost to sinners.

All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:1-3


At what point in our walk with Him do we “know Him”?


When we are born again and “in Christ” or at the Judgement Seat?




JLB
 

Fastfredy0

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Is believing/faith a work ?​

Interesting ... brightfame52 author's a thread but doesn't answer my questions. :chin

So if one bases their Salvation on believing, their act, they are basing it on their works, no way around it !
There is a way around it. I explained it several times.

Premise 1: We are not saved by our works: Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness:
Romans 11:6 Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace.
Premise 2: We are saved by faith: John 20:31; 1 John 5:31; etc., etc.
Premise 3: Faith is a work per brightfame52
Is believing/faith a work ?
Again, yes it is. Its the action, function, deed of the mind, the soul, and heart. The word work ergon means:
work, labor, action, deed,
Conclusion:
Solve the riddle
 

Hopeful

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More works salvation advocated.
Yes, indeed.
But not the works of the Law that Paul wrote against being "saved by".

I am grateful to God for the grace to do the works you allude to...to hear the preaching, to believe, to turn from sin permanently, to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, to be reborn after crucifying the old man/flesh, to pray, to read and study the bible, to faithfully endure to the end.

"Having" faith, is an action.
 
Last edited:

Hopeful

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Trees are not tempted, nor do they have the ability to choose right from wrong or good from evil.
Neither can they bring forth the fruit of any other seed than that from which they were born.
Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:7-9
Amen...though the word "practices" isn't in the KJV of the bible.
Apple seeds will never bear onions.
God's seed will never bear liars or thieves.
If a Christian does sin, they can confess their sin and be forgiven.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:9-10
If a Christian says they have not sinned then they are liars.
The fruit of that doctrine is more sin.
 

Randy

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Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:1-3


At what point in our walk with Him do we “know Him”?


When we are born again and “in Christ” or at the Judgement Seat?




JLB
Well I have believed and loved and been praying to Jesus as far back as my memory goes. I usually equate "know him" with the new creation or born again or born of the Spirit.

When we are born again we are actually "One" with Jesus.

As is shown
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

But if the Lord asked you, "what works did the one on the cross next to him do to have his sins forgiven", what would be your answer?
 

JLB

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The fruit of that doctrine is more sin.

The truth of that doctrine is from Christ; the Author of scripture.

If you believe He promotes more sin, then that is between you and God.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:9
 
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