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https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
Oh well maybe I just misunderstood your analogy then.
My thoughts exactly.
Well.......... I don't usually argue with your wisdom, but on the other hand, we ARE commanded to surrender our bodies to our spouse.
Thanks for that great explanation that sheds a ton of light on how "the pill" really works and completely debunks the idea that it is the equivalent of killing a baby! For those like me that didn't know how it worked, just that it did, this helps a lot!
I keep forgetting to come back to this, lol. What I mean by God intending for us to have control over our bodies and not relinquish control over them, if that's the point you're addressing, is he did not intend for our sexual desire to be out of control and rule over us.
Completely debunks the idea? I'm pretty sure she said it's unlikely, not that it's impossible. I would consult your wife's gynecologist before deciding that the pill absolutely does not allow implantation to occur while taking the pill and, therefore, removes the risk of having that implantation aborted by the pill. I personally don't know for sure if that's true, or not, but I do think Christian couples should do the homework about it.
I said it "completely debunks the idea that it is the equivalent of killing a baby". That means it's not the normal way it works and she said the chances of it not working as intended were "miniscule". It seems no one with knowledge considers this type of birth control as the equivalent of killing a fetus. Sure, if you want to consider miniscule chances of imperfection as a valid reason to completely avoid something, well then it's not perfect. But then, nothing in this world is completely perfect, so by your standards there isn't much in this life that you won't have to avoid. I'm quite sure you don't truly live this way that you are suggesting others have to live. But then neither is your solution of self control a perfect one either, and by your previous post even you had to take other measures by getting a vasectomy when your solution didn't work. Nothing in this world is completely perfect but it's been very well proven that relying on self control alone is far more risky then the pill. So much so that serious medical personnel don't even bother to consider it a serious comparison. Adding to this the fact that scripture never condemns birth control and never tells us that sex is only for creating children, and even supports the idea of not denying your partner of sexual fulfillment, I see no reason for the unnecessary restrictions on a God given basic human desire that is unique in us as humans. On the other hand, I've seen people who claim all birth control is a sin, and then go on to produce far more babies than they can support causing them to be constantly relying on the goodwill of others to help and support them. This is an irresponsible position to take, lacking support in scripture.
Is the matter of an implantation being equivalent to a baby the issue you say was completely debunked, or that an implantation can be aborted while on the pill is what is completely debunked?
Right, I made that point. Sex is for having kids, accept it. My advice to Christian couples, as one who has 'been there, done that', is to stop focusing on looking for ways to avoid what God himself built into sex--having babies, and take responsibility for what he built into it by learning self-control.
I'm pointing out that the right solution is to accept that sex is about having kids, and the godly way to deal with that reality is to learn self-control, not avoid it through surgery, pills, etc. Vasectomy will almost 100% guarantee that you will no longer have to take the responsibility for God having attached child bearing to sexual activity, but it may also potentially take away the responsibility that God gave us to not let our bodily desires get out of our control and to rule over us. Remember...'done there, been that' (lol). I had MORE strife with my wife about 'due benevolence' AFTER my vasectomy because I no longer had God's built in restraint that the sex I just so badly gotta have, and which she 'owes' me, may result in another child.
Right. But it does condemn killing a life that God has started on it's course in this world in the womb, and condemns not having control of your body. Where birth control comes in in regard to these two things is what determines how right or wrong it is for any one Christian couple.
Right. And I did not say that it was. I'm saying it's as much a part of married sex as everything else sex is for in marriage.
You may be bringing a child into the world you may or may not be prepared to deal with. And you think that's not a good reason to restrict God given human desire to reproduce, and to do that in a spiritual, rather than nonspiritual way?
I agree. Even though God can and will take care of us, we are not to foolishly tempt him. This is why I've been talking about self-control, not birth control, in general as the godly way to deal with what God himself has built into sexual activity.
How’s about we calling it what it appears to be: LUST. It appears some are driven by desires of the flesh instead of God, they have not learned to believe God for their deliverance; does that make them an unbeliever? Hmmmm? Are they lost at that moment? Oh those of little faith.
Hmmmmmm!sheesh
You have just removed all the concealing meat and have laid the bone bare. Much to consider!How’s about we calling it what it appears to be: LUST. It appears some are driven by desires of the flesh instead of God, they have not learned to believe God for their deliverance; does that make them an unbeliever? Hmmmm? Are they lost at that moment? Oh those of little faith.
Oh yeah, Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves - -
to fasting; What’s this for? Forty days or more without sustenance will do wonders in changing your priorities? (Don’t see this in most bibles.)
and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency (self restraint). A Christian has problems with self restraint? Oh my? Could they really be a Christian?
To the question of birth control:
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply (There is no excuse). Those weak in faith start counting the cost of one child; what? $245,340 according to USA today.
To the man being lustful;
No, it is her that is the seducer working against the poor man’s weakness. Pro 7:21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, . . . thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. The whole problem seems to boil down to the submission of the wife.
I can think of easier and less painful ways to become a martyr for the faith.
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, . . . thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. The whole problem seems to boil down to the submission of the wife.
